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Lady_Athena

ok Wargaming, what is up with these sub buffs?

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I've been defending submarines as they were.. As most people will know from my topics who's been on the forums...

But these submarine buffs are absolutely ludicrous.

Before a sub vs sub took a little intuition, and a little skill and a little luck to win.. Now its "he who shoots first auto wins".. Which is the dumbest garbage ever. The torpedo tracking speeds were perfectly fine.

Once again you took a perfectly balanced situation and threw it into an extreme. (And Wargaming wonders why I and others call them incompetent..)

------------------------

The submarine reload buffs as well are a disgusting joke of incompetence.. In two ways.

 

1) The 60-70 second or longer reloads were more than acceptable for the submarines strengths.. (Could of even been raised higher a bit by 5-10 seconds)

 

2) You destroyed yet again.. the German line.. It was the Germans only real strength was the fact theirs reloaded so much quicker due to the insanely short distance they had on their torpedoes.. Now Germans get nothing of value.. because the reload rates are nearly identical across the board...

And if you think the abysmal 4km Sonar they're given is a worth damn in anything other than extremely niche rare situations, you're more drunk than even Russians are memed about.

 

I cannot defend submarines anymore at this point..

 

I knew WG as going to go full [edited] like they did with the carrier rework, but I didn't expect it THIS early...

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This recent update does baffle me. And as an KMS fan it is troubling to see German ships get crapon again. 

Also, a torpedo damage nerf without a reload buff would have been more than acceptable. 

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This is what happens when someone tries to balance the unbalanceable, and "participation" is part of their "balance" metric.  All the talk of subs being boring after the first scares the people inside WG whose jobs might be riding on the subs being a "success" in terms of player participation.

 

 

Edited by KilljoyCutter
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12 minutes ago, Sir_Orrin said:

This recent update does baffle me. And as an KMS fan it is troubling to see German ships get crapon again. 

Also, a torpedo damage nerf without a reload buff would have been more than acceptable. 

Pretty much.

 

As a person who always wanted to enjoy the German line of ships.. they consistently get nerfed year after year either directly, or indirectly.

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Just now, KilljoyCutter said:

This is what happens when someone tries to balance the unbalanceable, and "participation" is part of their "balance" metric.

 

It was balanced. But lets not start that argument again. I don't want too have to waste time reminding you why you lost that argument and fail to see it.

For additional info, and responses, refer to my sub thread.

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Just now, Lady_Athena said:

It was balanced. But lets not start that argument again. I don't want too have to waste time reminding you why you lost that argument and fail to see it.

:Smile_veryhappy:

OK.

 

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Just now, KilljoyCutter said:

:Smile_veryhappy:

OK.

 

:cap_cool:

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21 minutes ago, Lady_Athena said:

I've been defending submarines as they were.. As most people will know from my topics who's been on the forums...

But these submarine buffs are absolutely ludicrous.

Before a sub vs sub took a little intuition, and a little skill and a little luck to win.. Now its "he who shoots first auto wins".. Which is the dumbest garbage ever. The torpedo tracking speeds were perfectly fine.

Once again you took a perfectly balanced situation and threw it into an extreme. (And Wargaming wonders why I and others call them incompetent..)

------------------------

The submarine reload buffs as well are a disgusting joke of incompetence.. In two ways.

 

1) The 60-70 second or longer reloads were more than acceptable for the submarines strengths.. (Could of even been raised higher a bit by 5-10 seconds)

 

2) You destroyed yet again.. the German line.. It was the Germans only real strength was the fact theirs reloaded so much quicker due to the insanely short distance they had on their torpedoes.. Now Germans get nothing of value.. because the reload rates are nearly identical across the board...

And if you think the abysmal 4km Sonar they're given is a worth damn in anything other than extremely niche rare situations, you're more drunk than even Russians are memed about.

 

I cannot defend submarines anymore at this point..

 

I knew WG as going to go full [edited] like they did with the carrier rework, but I didn't expect it THIS early...

Its why we cant have nice things.

Why is the Russian sub faster better o yea because.  Why is Russian even a thing anyway? It should have been German, US, then IJN then British then Russian.

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tbf, the German sub still has the fastest reload at 40 seconds and the most damage at 12K, the other 2 have like 50 seconds and under 9K damage

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We are shocked and amazed to see the German line unexpectedly smashed by the nerf bat, with the USN being buffed most bigly.

Shocked and amazed, we are.

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The Germans still have the highest alpha on their torpedoes... 

Oddly enough, the Russian sub was the only one not to have its alpha nerfed significantly :Smile_hiding:

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2 hours ago, Lady_Athena said:

Now its "he who shoots first auto wins"

Even with 2 pings sub torps are still incredibly easy to dodge.

 

2 hours ago, Lady_Athena said:

2) You destroyed yet again.. the German line.. It was the Germans only real strength was the fact theirs reloaded so much quicker due to the insanely short distance they had on their torpedoes.. Now Germans get nothing of value.. because the reload rates are nearly identical across the board...

And the highest alpha.
And the best battery sustain.
And the best concealment.
And the hydro which is incredibly useful in a sub vs sub engagement contrary to what you're saying.

I'm sorry, didn't you say you understand the mechanics of this game?

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Submarine depths are too shallow too. Submarines are far too capable of escaping surface and airborne threats.

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14 hours ago, Lady_Athena said:

It was balanced. But lets not start that argument again. I don't want too have to waste time reminding you why you lost that argument and fail to see it.

For additional info, and responses, refer to my sub thread.

Subs were balanced so long as you had depth charge equipped ships still afloat. As soon as your DDs and depth charge equipped CLs sank, though? There wasn't much heavy cruisers, BBs or carriers can do.

As much as people complain about carriers, at least almost every ship in the game can shoot at aircraft. Maybe not effectively, but you aren't totally helpless. Against subs though? Different story. Either every ship type needs to be able to attack subs (CAs and BBs with depth charge equipped floatplanes and CVs with depth charge equipped bombers) or there needs to be a way to force subs to the surface.

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16 hours ago, Lady_Athena said:

I knew WG as going to go full [edited] like they did with the carrier rework, but I didn't expect it THIS early...

Funny, I could have sworn you were one of the most vocal forumites adamantly defending the CV rework

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16 hours ago, Lady_Athena said:

I've been defending submarines as they were.. As most people will know from my topics who's been on the forums...

But these submarine buffs are absolutely ludicrous.

For the first time you sad something which makes actually sense.

16 hours ago, Lady_Athena said:

Before a sub vs sub took a little intuition, and a little skill and a little luck to win..

Then again wrong.

Sub vs sub change is good because subs can reliably fight each other now. More skilled one (who knows how to dodge and who knows when/where to launch torps) wins.

 

16 hours ago, Lady_Athena said:

I cannot defend submarines anymore at this point..

 

Im impressed. There is nothing to defend about subs. They are just broken.

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54 minutes ago, ghostbuster_ said:

Im impressed. There is nothing to defend about subs. They are just broken.

Broken because they're taken out of their element. If they were emphasized for surface combat, then they'd be on track to fun and engaging; they're not.

Submarines got to be complient within the historical context they existed: surface warfare. If WG did this, every ship would have a fighting chance against their adversary.

Right now, submarines need dive times and that 20kt periscope speed eliminated.

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I can't wait and I hope and pray this is a repeat of Update 8.0.............!!!  Cause many of us are going 100% subs and if you thought planes were bad..............well, you've got another thing coming.  If our host does this, this thingy that we dread, why shouldn't we make use of the "opportunities" to get as much as we can and "farm all night long?"   Why not?   The Carrier players did and are to this day.   Payback is a...........you get the idea.   :Smile_izmena:

I wonder, are they going to allow "division wolf packs?"

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I wouldn't get too worked up over anything to do with subs. It's going to take many iterations to get them right. Right now WG is throwing darts to see what sticks. Worry when it comes time for them to get into random battles, which is far from a sure thing at this point and a long time off even if they do. 

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Just now, General_Lee_Miserable said:

I wouldn't get too worked up over anything to do with subs. It's going to take many iterations to get them right. Right now WG is throwing darts to see what sticks. Worry when it comes time for them to get into random battles, which is far from a sure thing at this point and a long time off even if they do. 

In other words repeating the CV rework which was a fiasco.

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3 minutes ago, General_Lee_Miserable said:

I wouldn't get too worked up over anything to do with subs. It's going to take many iterations to get them right. Right now WG is throwing darts to see what sticks. Worry when it comes time for them to get into random battles, which is far from a sure thing at this point and a long time off even if they do. 

I wish I could believe that... but the more resources WG pours down the "submarine" drain, the more likely they are to end up in regular battles, and the sooner it's likely to be.

 

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20 hours ago, Lady_Athena said:

It was balanced. But lets not start that argument again. I don't want too have to waste time reminding you why you lost that argument and fail to see it.

For additional info, and responses, refer to my sub thread.

Pretty full of yourself aren't you? You really think your opinion is the only one the matters?:Smile_amazed:

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We are still in the balancing process. The pendulum is going to swing. Probably several times before we settle.

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1 minute ago, paradat said:

We are still in the balancing process. The pendulum is going to swing. Probably several times before we settle.

I guess the question is: Will the balancing be done on the test server or on the live server for months because if "insufficient data" from the test server?

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