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Anhydrax

Economy

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image.thumb.png.2514059c2dbb49f77a178eabfc1071ec.png

So huh... Can we talk about this? That's with my first win of the day (we won and that's with the +50%). Why is it even possible to LOSE credits (playing high tier)? 

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3 minutes ago, Anhydrax said:

image.thumb.png.2514059c2dbb49f77a178eabfc1071ec.png

So huh... Can we talk about this? That's with my first win of the day (we won and that's with the +50%). Why is it even possible to LOSE credits (playing high tier)? 

It's a soft cap to limit high tier play.  It used to be even worse if that seems possible.

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11 minutes ago, Anhydrax said:

image.thumb.png.2514059c2dbb49f77a178eabfc1071ec.png

So huh... Can we talk about this? That's with my first win of the day (we won and that's with the +50%). Why is it even possible to LOSE credits (playing high tier)? 

This is the worst game mechanic I could possibly imagine.

Let's make a game that's free to play, but add an arbitrary game mechanic that functionally removes a player's ability to progress if they play for free.

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2 minutes ago, CAPTAIN_JACK_HOLDEN said:

This is the worst game mechanic I could possibly imagine.

Let's make a game that's free to play, but add an arbitrary game mechanic that functionally removes a player's ability to progress if they play for free.

The game theory is that you "encourage" players to play more lower tier games where you make the money to play in higher tier games.  This keeps people playing lower tiers and "encourages" players who are struggling at higher tiers to go back down a few and make more money and maybe get a little better at the game.

And.  You can also spend money and skip all that and ride your wallet straight to Tier 10 and never look back.  And then probably complain about the quality of players at T10.  LOL

I do understand the suck factor though.  

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Tier 9 tech tree ships are all the suck. They have all the wretchedness of all the bad things in the universe.

Not only can you lose credits playing them, you need to play them for aeons in order to get to tier X. The camos are fiendishly expensive, so are the hull upgrades.

I am pretty sure, without having proof, that most people use FXP to blow past tier 9, and then get a perma camo for their tier X of choice. They (we) rationalise this by claiming the tier X with camo is effectively free to play, and what we lose in doubloons, we make up for by avoiding the hyper suck that is tier 9.

The reasoning is, "I am so smart, to think of blowing past all this suck with FXP, that I deserve a tier X camo. I earned it, by using my smarts. I deserve it."

Tier 9 cruisers are the worst.

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1 minute ago, SidTheBlade said:

Tier 9 tech tree ships are all the suck. They have all the wretchedness of all the bad things in the universe.

Um, no.  Some are very strong (Jutland, Kitakaze and, if you can believe it, post buff Izumo) and others are weak, same as any other tier.

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First of all, the first win of the affects only XP, not credits earned. Secondly, there are quite a few free ways to at least not have that many credit losses, if not break even outright.

You can use loads of signals first of all to get credit boosts, cut off a bit repair costs. Then there's camos. Ocean Soul, which can be purchased with Coal gives a very useful +20% credits earned boost. Clan bonuses further cut repair costs.

You can get your hands on Premium time from time to time for free, making it easy to hoard credits.

Finally, payouts are reliant on performance. Do good, get paid well.

5 minutes ago, SidTheBlade said:

Tier 9 tech tree ships are all the suck. They have all the wretchedness of all the bad things in the universe.

Not only can you lose credits playing them, you need to play them for aeons in order to get to tier X. The camos are fiendishly expensive, so are the hull upgrades.

I am pretty sure, without having proof, that most people use FXP to blow past tier 9, and then get a perma camo for their tier X of choice. They (we) rationalise this by claiming the tier X with camo is effectively free to play, and what we lose in doubloons, we make up for by avoiding the hyper suck that is tier 9.

The reasoning is, "I am so smart, to think of blowing past all this suck with FXP, that I deserve a tier X camo. I earned it, by using my smarts. I deserve it."

Tier 9 cruisers are the worst.

I would completely disagree with the first statement; tier IX has some pretty decent ships, tech tree or otherwise. All tier IX DDs with the exceptions of Yugumo and Chung Mu are completely workable.

Afaik BBs got Freddie as the bad ship, yet  previously subpar BBs like Izumo got buffed recently.

I will grant you that some tier IX cruisers are pretty bad, yet there's Roon, Donskoi, Brindisi that are pretty good performers. 

In my opinion people get often greedy cause tier X represents the "peak" of performance, therefore all tier X's have to be good. Add to that how CB is also mostly tier X and that's the prime candidate for people skipping tier IX.

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WG's model is be good or spend to play high tier.

Does seem kind of crazy, but I guess it works.

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Inhaven't played all the tier 9s, so I concede there may be great ships out there. Currently, however, I am grinding the Buffalo and the Neptune. Neither one has any armour, and the Neptune has no guns. We are very hate these ships.

Great to hear the Kitikaze is a good boat, as I will be in it soon. Love that whole IJN gunboat line, so far. Great fun.

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1 hour ago, Anhydrax said:

image.thumb.png.2514059c2dbb49f77a178eabfc1071ec.png

So huh... Can we talk about this? That's with my first win of the day (we won and that's with the +50%). Why is it even possible to LOSE credits (playing high tier)? 

This is designed to annoy you so that you go purchase premium time. Its either that or go farm low tiers to earn money to play high tiers..

 

When I need money I play my Mighty Mo...... every game it rains millions of credits.  If you have the mighty mo, credits farm you. 

Edited by Slumlord_Dasboot

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1 hour ago, CommodoreKang said:

It's a soft cap to limit high tier play.  It used to be even worse if that seems possible.

Which borders on the schizophrenic and bizarre; since WG seems obsessed with pushing players into high tiers...

...but then maybe not.

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1 hour ago, Helstrem said:

and, if you can believe it, post buff Izumo)

I beat the snot out of a Fat Freddy De Goober yesterday with an Izumo; good ship!

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1 hour ago, CAPTAIN_JACK_HOLDEN said:

This is the worst game mechanic I could possibly imagine.

Let's make a game that's free to play, but add an arbitrary game mechanic that functionally removes a player's ability to progress if they play for free.

That's standard practice with F2P games.  Lots of inconveniences are thrown at you to get you to spend money.  Some F2P games go so far to have game wide announcements of paying players getting stuff to drive the point even harder.

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2 hours ago, CAPTAIN_JACK_HOLDEN said:

This is the worst game mechanic I could possibly imagine.

Let's make a game that's free to play, but add an arbitrary game mechanic that functionally removes a player's ability to progress if they play for free.

its norm... play low tiers save some credits so you can afford to play a few tier 10's or spend cash and maybe you can spend more time playing tier 10... who do you think kept the lights on so you could play for free?  You can knock yerself out playing mid and low tiers and never spend a penny...

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6 hours ago, Anhydrax said:

image.thumb.png.2514059c2dbb49f77a178eabfc1071ec.png

So huh... Can we talk about this? That's with my first win of the day (we won and that's with the +50%). 

Winning or losing has no effect on credits, only XP.

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6 hours ago, CAPTAIN_JACK_HOLDEN said:

Let's make a game that's free to play, but add an arbitrary game mechanic that functionally removes a player's ability to progress if they play for free.

It doesn't remove it, just slows it down. The OP could easily recoup his losses with a mid-tier game or two.

Mid-tier premiums are especially good for this, as not only can you use them to amass credits, (and earn XP as if you had a prem. acct.) you can use your high-tier captains while doing so.

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6 hours ago, SidTheBlade said:

Inhaven't played all the tier 9s, so I concede there may be great ships out there. Currently, however, I am grinding the Buffalo and the Neptune. Neither one has any armour, and the Neptune has no guns. We are very hate these ships.

Great to hear the Kitikaze is a good boat, as I will be in it soon. Love that whole IJN gunboat line, so far. Great fun.

Neptune you usually have bad games or really good games.  I once killed 2 nearly full health Moskva within a minutes of each other buy myself in Neptune.   One I got with torps and the other was broadside to me so kept citadelling him until he was gone.  

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Simple farm more damage and you wont have to lose credit ,  many of us run premium time and a few premium ships for credits, ive been sitting between 500-600m credit for a long time and i dont have a mighty mo

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7 hours ago, warheart1992 said:

First of all, the first win of the affects only XP, not credits earned. Secondly, there are quite a few free ways to at least not have that many credit losses, if not break even outright.

You can use loads of signals first of all to get credit boosts, cut off a bit repair costs. Then there's camos. Ocean Soul, which can be purchased with Coal gives a very useful +20% credits earned boost. Clan bonuses further cut repair costs.

You can get your hands on Premium time from time to time for free, making it easy to hoard credits.

Finally, payouts are reliant on performance. Do good, get paid well.

I would completely disagree with the first statement; tier IX has some pretty decent ships, tech tree or otherwise. All tier IX DDs with the exceptions of Yugumo and Chung Mu are completely workable.

Afaik BBs got Freddie as the bad ship, yet  previously subpar BBs like Izumo got buffed recently.

I will grant you that some tier IX cruisers are pretty bad, yet there's Roon, Donskoi, Brindisi that are pretty good performers. 

In my opinion people get often greedy cause tier X represents the "peak" of performance, therefore all tier X's have to be good. Add to that how CB is also mostly tier X and that's the prime candidate for people skipping tier IX.

I have to disagree with the point of the brindisi

 

There seems to be this notion that at T8+ The Italian CAs are a quantum leap going forward from T5~7 I've found this not to be the case.

Brindisi like the Amalfi is frankly pedestrian compared to prior ships in the line and do away with lots of things that made the prior ships good at their tiers such as the shell velocities shorter length tighter turn radii

Granted you have more games and I am assuming experience as well YMMV

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5 hours ago, TaxDollarsAtWork said:

I have to disagree with the point of the brindisi

 

There seems to be this notion that at T8+ The Italian CAs are a quantum leap going forward from T5~7 I've found this not to be the case.

Brindisi like the Amalfi is frankly pedestrian compared to prior ships in the line and do away with lots of things that made the prior ships good at their tiers such as the shell velocities shorter length tighter turn radii

Granted you have more games and I am assuming experience as well YMMV

Shell velocities are mostly similar, if not a bit better. Higher tier Italian CAs benefit from 2 things imo. 

First of all, armor schemes. They start getting stripes of armor and extended belts that allow them to be surprisingly tanky at times. Secondly, different opponents. Superstructures start getting very large as you go up the tiers. This means a larger surface for your SAP to arm, making life a bit easier. Compare that to say fighting a Fuso with minimal superstructure.

Without hating on Zara, which is a decent tier VII, Amalfi represents the first breakthrough, Brindisi is the respectable interim design that culminates into Venezia.

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18 hours ago, Anhydrax said:

image.thumb.png.2514059c2dbb49f77a178eabfc1071ec.png

So huh... Can we talk about this? That's with my first win of the day (we won and that's with the +50%). Why is it even possible to LOSE credits (playing high tier)? 

Because high tier repair costs are brutal, and looking at your credits and XP earned, I deduce from experience that you did not have a very productive battle. If you die early without doing much, you will come home in the red every time. If you do very well, kill multiple ships and do lots of damage, you can come home in the black. 

What others have said about credits is correct; winning or losing does not affect them but only affects XP.

It would help to know what ship you were in and what you accomplished in the battle. 

If you want high-tier play that's affordable, save up for one of the coal premiums. They will not require you to spend money, and they come with a permacamo AND with baked-in service-cost bonuses that make them no more expensive to play than Tier 7.

In the meantime, I see that you have only around 1300 battles. IMHO you are not ready for high-tier play. Go back and consolidate some of your lines at the mid tiers before proceeding any higher. 

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I never had a problem with the economy of the game until I hit tier 10 with never buying premium.  If you have a mediocre game, you lose credits but still gain XP/commander XP.  

I then became a premium scumbag and bought a bunch of xmas containers last year.  I wound up getting a bunch of new ships that all required some cost to bring them up to speed.  I then started up the italian cruiser line and my long neglected Japanese and French lines.  I used to have a ton of credits, but now I am always low and throw in some Missouri rounds in an attempt to counter this. 

In some cases, I grinded all stock hulls and upgrades to test the theory that it was worth saving the credits and XP.  Ouch, theory debunked lol.  

OP, you will have to use camo, signals, and premium time to maximize your credit intake.  

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19 hours ago, CAPTAIN_JACK_HOLDEN said:

This is the worst game mechanic I could possibly imagine. Let's make a game that's free to play, but add an arbitrary game mechanic that functionally removes a player's ability to progress if they play for free.

I couldn't disagree more strongly. It is totally free to play, but if you're not good and you want to have the biggest ships in the game, then you have to work for it. The game isn't free to develop, the servers and bandwidth aren't free to host, etc. I've got two Tier 10s, I'm 1/2 way to my third. I have a JeanBart and a few other premiums... and I've never spent a cent on the game.

But I know if I want to play my T10s a lot I will have to "grind" with my premium ships (much easier now with the JB,) to make sure I have the credits to do it. That's the game design, and clearly based on how much money WG has made using it in their games (and they sure didn't invent the model,) it is a pretty successful game design.

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21 hours ago, CAPTAIN_JACK_HOLDEN said:

This is the worst game mechanic I could possibly imagine.

Let's make a game that's free to play, but add an arbitrary game mechanic that functionally removes a player's ability to progress if they play for free.

you just answered it yourself. it's wg's way of selling camos, dubloons, premium time, loot boxes, etc.

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8 hours ago, warheart1992 said:

Shell velocities are mostly similar, if not a bit better. Higher tier Italian CAs benefit from 2 things imo. 

First of all, armor schemes. They start getting stripes of armor and extended belts that allow them to be surprisingly tanky at times. Secondly, different opponents. Superstructures start getting very large as you go up the tiers. This means a larger surface for your SAP to arm, making life a bit easier. Compare that to say fighting a Fuso with minimal superstructure.

Without hating on Zara, which is a decent tier VII, Amalfi represents the first breakthrough, Brindisi is the respectable interim design that culminates into Venezia.

I don't know what you mean, I see the same 150mm armour belt on all 3 ships, meaning at higher tiers you actually have less armour than before

The advantages the T8/9 have are the shell velocities which I would say are more of a curse than a blessing, they do enhance the ships ability to deal with Destroyers but this is seriously a situational and awkward thing most times as the ships have no Hydro or Radar, significantly longer and much worse turning circles, alone RM CA stand no chance to properly screen and hunt for them.

But they hurt the ships in that they start lacking favourable plunging fire angles at high tiers which is actually good for SAP and is good for using certain islands to break LOS and continue to farm the BB/CA w/e Super Structure

The AP though has to be my main complaint, while yes at high tiers all or nothing battleships are easy to farm with SAP so long as you aim for the SC which isnt hard, its the inability to do good AP and reliable Citadel damage to CA/CLs is really infuriating at high tier.

I much prefer the Italians at 7 and bellow as I can still do wonderful damage with AP to cruiser and even pre all or nothing battleships with AP like the Warspite or Fuso you just mentioned

Once you hit Amalfi and Brindisi forget about citadels unless you're top tier essentially, they just can't fill the shoes of the average cruiser at that teir well enough as they can at lower tier

Don't take this as all that authoritative Italians are my first tree in this game so a pinch of salt is recommended

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