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DevilD0g

Tier 4 hermes only ! needs a torp buff

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if you have ever played the British tier 4 carrier Hermes , and thats the only carrier im talking about in this forum,,, not high tier carriers, tier 4 carrier Hermes only , read my lips. It suffers badly with not being able to launch 2 torps on a salvo as the other carriers at that level as they can only launch 1.    they dont seem to be more maneuverable than other planes. they seem to get shot down as regularly as other carrier planes.

While it may have mid level damage compared to the other carriers in tier 4, the fact that it has to make more runs on target with 1 torp  is a depreciating factor in regards to you have to make double the runs on target to make a sinking compared to other carriers in the same tier. There fore it takes twice as long to sink capital ships compared to other carriers.   

Not to mention that  you run out of shot down torpedo bombers faster, its not being whiny, its just logic.   That's why i say the Hermes needs a buff to have 2 torps a salvo.

The AA level has increased on that tier now so they just get chewed up

Its torpedoes don't do the most damage at 5200, the Japanese Hosho does  at 5400 and they can launch 2 of them in a salvo and the stats support it.

Warship Tier     Type                Nation     Battles     Win rate     Avg.   
Langley  4     Aircraft Carrier     U.S.A.     625 085     50.53 %     0.59     
Hōshō      4     Aircraft Carrier     Japan     460 823     52.37 %     0.81
Hermes   4     Aircraft Carrier     U.K.     246 144     51.89 %     0.7

also statistically worked out AVE carrier plane losses

langley  33  Hosho  35   Hermes  38  so hermes has the highest plane rate loss.

**Note in these stats, they only ones i could get, its not the strongest carrier at tier 4, Hosho is, and Hosho has those citadel capable bombs that the other carriers dont have.

Only Hermes im talking about, no other carrier or tier, it needs to have its salvo upgraded to  2 torp release and not one, like the other carriers on that tier.

Edited by DevilD0g
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Anyone who plays tier 4 carriers beyond what they need to for xp for a tier 6 is only doing it for the lulz and is not to be respected. 

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If you run out of planes in a T4 carrier, you are doing something very wrong.  Most of the ships at that tier have AA consisting of a blind 80 year old man on the deck in a speedo, firing a pistol.

Maybe if you get a T5 game with a couple of the good AA boats, and then try to focus those boats, you can run out of planes.....but at some point, common sense needs to weight in.

I found that the Hermes and her ability to do a powerslide and come back and drop another torp right away was extremely deadly.  That said, I only played 11 games in her till I moved on.

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38 minutes ago, DevilD0g said:

if you have ever played the British tier 4 carrier Hermes , and thats the only carrier im talking about in this forum,,, not high tier carriers, tier 4 carrier Hermes only , read my lips. It suffers badly with not being able to launch 2 torps on a salvo as the other carriers at that level as they can only launch 1.    they dont seem to be more maneuverable than other planes. they seem to get shot down as regularly as other carrier planes.

While it may have mid level damage compared to the other carriers in tier 4, the fact that it has to make more runs on target with 1 torp  is a depreciating factor in regards to you have to make double the runs on target to make a sinking compared to other carriers in the same tier. There fore it takes twice as long to sink capital ships compared to other carriers.   

Not to mention that  you run out of shot down torpedo bombers faster, its not being whiny, its just logic.   That's why i say the Hermes needs a buff to have 2 torps a salvo.

The AA level has increased on that tier now so they just get chewed up

Its torpedoes don't do the most damage at 5200, the Japanese Hosho does  at 5400 and they can launch 2 of them in a salvo and the stats support it.

Warship Tier     Type                Nation     Battles     Win rate     Avg.   
Langley  4     Aircraft Carrier     U.S.A.     625 085     50.53 %     0.59     
Hōshō      4     Aircraft Carrier     Japan     460 823     52.37 %     0.81
Hermes   4     Aircraft Carrier     U.K.     246 144     51.89 %     0.7

also statistically worked out AVE carrier plane losses

langley  33  Hosho  35   Hermes  38  so hermes has the highest plane rate loss.

**Note in these stats, they only ones i could get, its not the strongest carrier at tier 4, Hosho is, and Hosho has those citadel capable bombs that the other carriers dont have.

Only Hermes im talking about, no other carrier or tier, it needs to have its salvo upgraded to  2 torp release and not one, like the other carriers on that tier.

To be honest, the other Tier 4s need to have their double torp drops removed and return to single-torp drops. 

Wargaming altered the Hosho and Langley to a double-torpedo drop to more correctly mimic the higher tier versions.  When they didn't cut the damage in half... it got really rough.  Tier 4 isn't a damage farming tier for CVs, it's a place for slow play and learning the basics of drops and attacks.

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11 minutes ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

If you run out of planes in a T4 carrier, you are doing something very wrong.  Most of the ships at that tier have AA consisting of a blind 80 year old man on the deck in a speedo, firing a pistol.

Maybe if you get a T5 game with a couple of the good AA boats, and then try to focus those boats, you can run out of planes.....but at some point, common sense needs to weight in.

I found that the Hermes and her ability to do a powerslide and come back and drop another torp right away was extremely deadly.  That said, I only played 11 games in her till I moved on.

Tier 5 AA is brutal against tier 4 planes and will take out planes on the way in and on the way out if they survived the attack run with few exceptions and there are a couple of no fly zones.

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59 minutes ago, DevilD0g said:

if you have ever played the British tier 4 carrier Hermes , and thats the only carrier im talking about in this forum,,, not high tier carriers, tier 4 carrier Hermes only , read my lips. It suffers badly with not being able to launch 2 torps on a salvo as the other carriers at that level as they can only launch 1.    they dont seem to be more maneuverable than other planes. they seem to get shot down as regularly as other carrier planes.

While it may have mid level damage compared to the other carriers in tier 4, the fact that it has to make more runs on target with 1 torp  is a depreciating factor in regards to you have to make double the runs on target to make a sinking compared to other carriers in the same tier. There fore it takes twice as long to sink capital ships compared to other carriers.   

Not to mention that  you run out of shot down torpedo bombers faster, its not being whiny, its just logic.   That's why i say the Hermes needs a buff to have 2 torps a salvo.

The AA level has increased on that tier now so they just get chewed up

Its torpedoes don't do the most damage at 5200, the Japanese Hosho does  at 5400 and they can launch 2 of them in a salvo and the stats support it.

Warship Tier     Type                Nation     Battles     Win rate     Avg.   
Langley  4     Aircraft Carrier     U.S.A.     625 085     50.53 %     0.59     
Hōshō      4     Aircraft Carrier     Japan     460 823     52.37 %     0.81
Hermes   4     Aircraft Carrier     U.K.     246 144     51.89 %     0.7

also statistically worked out AVE carrier plane losses

langley  33  Hosho  35   Hermes  38  so hermes has the highest plane rate loss.

**Note in these stats, they only ones i could get, its not the strongest carrier at tier 4, Hosho is, and Hosho has those citadel capable bombs that the other carriers dont have.

Only Hermes im talking about, no other carrier or tier, it needs to have its salvo upgraded to  2 torp release and not one, like the other carriers on that tier.

It needs a minimum of 3. pref. 4. 

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12 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Tier 5 AA is brutal against tier 4 planes and will take out planes on the way in and on the way out if they survived the attack run with few exceptions and there are a couple of no fly zones.

Nicholas. Some of the battleships besides Texas and New York can be pretty mean as well.

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Just now, Estimated_Prophet said:

Nicholas. Some of the battleships besides Texas and New York can be pretty mean as well.

Pretty much anything with dual purpose or a good amount of dedicated flak is not a desirable target.

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42 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Tier 5 AA is brutal against tier 4 planes and will take out planes on the way in and on the way out if they survived the attack run with few exceptions and there are a couple of no fly zones.

I guess I didn't run in to those ships when I went through Hosho recently.  Some of the T5s seemed to have like a 1 DPS AA aura that I could sit in all day.  Admittedly not a huge sample size, so I'll concede the point based on lack of experience :)  I don't stay in lower tiers very often.

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Just now, Old_Baldy_One said:

I guess I didn't run in to those ships when I went through Hosho recently.  Some of the T5s seemed to have like a 1 DPS AA aura that I could sit in all day.  Admittedly not a huge sample size, so I'll concede the point based on lack of experience :)  I don't stay in lower tiers very often.

Oh, there are easy targets but there are some pretty nasty ones too. You must have been staying away from those nasty ones, Texas, Oct Rev, Emerald, Exeter, and others.

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I honestly believe this too, but I think it is unoriginal to give it a torp buff. Air dropped torpedoes already plague the low tiers and I think in turn they should buff what makes her special ang t4s: her dive bombs.

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1 hour ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Nicholas. Some of the battleships besides Texas and New York can be pretty mean as well.

I think my Nik just has machine guns, I quit playing her much because she seemed to be a CV magnet...have the upgraded her AA?

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44 minutes ago, Morpheous said:

I think my Nik just has machine guns, I quit playing her much because she seemed to be a CV magnet...have the upgraded her AA?

I have mine as a C-Hull full DFAA build, including skills.

Struggles of course versus T6 carriers, but less so than many of the other T5s. However, with DFAA and sector reinforcement, Nicholas is absolutely brutal to T4 carriers. (My record is 71 shot down.)

Oddly, Mutsuki also isn’t too bad for a T5, but her AA is all continuous damage triple 25mms. Plenty of other bad AA T5 destroyers, (especially Pumpkin, Apple, and Blueberry, whose AA is all of 1?)

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3 hours ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

If you run out of planes in a T4 carrier, you are doing something very wrong.  Most of the ships at that tier have AA consisting of a blind 80 year old man on the deck in a speedo, firing a pistol.

Maybe if you get a T5 game with a couple of the good AA boats, and then try to focus those boats, you can run out of planes.....but at some point, common sense needs to weight in.

I found that the Hermes and her ability to do a powerslide and come back and drop another torp right away was extremely deadly.  That said, I only played 11 games in her till I moved on.

When I was playing Langley I frequently encountered Tier V ships, and an occasional Tier VI.  Now I'm using Ranger and its the Tier VIII monsters that give me fits.  There are DDs and CLs out there that evaporate entire squadrons before you even detect them.  Survival is increased when you hold off launching until your own forces engage, but you pay a penalty in the loss of potential damage you inflict.

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33 minutes ago, michael_zahnle said:

When I was playing Langley I frequently encountered Tier V ships, and an occasional Tier VI.  Now I'm using Ranger and its the Tier VIII monsters that give me fits.  There are DDs and CLs out there that evaporate entire squadrons before you even detect them.  Survival is increased when you hold off launching until your own forces engage, but you pay a penalty in the loss of potential damage you inflict.

The only way to see T6 in a T4 is if you div with a T5 and get uptiered.  Which is typically a bad idea, and in a CV its a real bad idea :)

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I literally played one game in Hermes and pushed the FXP button to move along.    After playing Hosho ,  Hermes was a considerable slide worse at introduction...   It's literally the only CV I have ground and didn't keep in my Port.  I played maybe 30  games in my Hosho when I was learning the Rework Mechanics at 8.0,  that was prior to its buff...   T4 CV's were really tough to play, with their single torpedo,  in those 1st few patches after 8.0 and WG quickly buffed Langley & Hosho to keep people playing them, I didn't mess with Hosho any or Langley after the buff. Actually haven' played a game in Langley in RW.   But I do remember that 1st impression of Hermes when the RN CVs were dropped with the RN CV intro.   I should go back and try them... But with all the seal clubbing going on at that tier, I'd feel dirty.      

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5 hours ago, DevilD0g said:

they dont seem to be more maneuverable than other planes. they seem to get shot down as regularly as other carrier planes.

Shot down by what? Tier 4 and below ships don't have any AA worthy of the name. (Except Yubari)

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1 hour ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

The only way to see T6 in a T4 is if you div with a T5 and get uptiered.  Which is typically a bad idea, and in a CV its a real bad idea :)

I didn't join a division until I was playing Tier 6 ships... Bayern to be precise.  Could the presence of a T5 joined with somebody else in a division have brought them in?

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Most CV torps are gimp somewhat so don't go expecting DD or Cruise damage levels some CV torps could use a buff :Smile_sceptic:

Edited by LastRemnant
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7 hours ago, DevilD0g said:

if you have ever played the British tier 4 carrier Hermes , and thats the only carrier im talking about in this forum,,, not high tier carriers, tier 4 carrier Hermes only , read my lips. It suffers badly with not being able to launch 2 torps on a salvo as the other carriers at that level as they can only launch 1.    they dont seem to be more maneuverable than other planes. they seem to get shot down as regularly as other carrier planes.

While it may have mid level damage compared to the other carriers in tier 4, the fact that it has to make more runs on target with 1 torp  is a depreciating factor in regards to you have to make double the runs on target to make a sinking compared to other carriers in the same tier. There fore it takes twice as long to sink capital ships compared to other carriers.   

Not to mention that  you run out of shot down torpedo bombers faster, its not being whiny, its just logic.   That's why i say the Hermes needs a buff to have 2 torps a salvo.

The AA level has increased on that tier now so they just get chewed up

Its torpedoes don't do the most damage at 5200, the Japanese Hosho does  at 5400 and they can launch 2 of them in a salvo and the stats support it.

Warship Tier     Type                Nation     Battles     Win rate     Avg.   
Langley  4     Aircraft Carrier     U.S.A.     625 085     50.53 %     0.59     
Hōshō      4     Aircraft Carrier     Japan     460 823     52.37 %     0.81
Hermes   4     Aircraft Carrier     U.K.     246 144     51.89 %     0.7

also statistically worked out AVE carrier plane losses

langley  33  Hosho  35   Hermes  38  so hermes has the highest plane rate loss.

**Note in these stats, they only ones i could get, its not the strongest carrier at tier 4, Hosho is, and Hosho has those citadel capable bombs that the other carriers dont have.

Only Hermes im talking about, no other carrier or tier, it needs to have its salvo upgraded to  2 torp release and not one, like the other carriers on that tier.

Your right the t4 does need it.  The whole British line is very hard.  I have all of them and I could never get the level bombers to really work.

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4 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

Your right the t4 does need it.  The whole British line is very hard.  I have all of them and I could never get the level bombers to really work.

lol

Exact opposite for me.

The carpet bombers work because I can at least try to evade a bit and still manage to get the reticle reasonably on target.

I hate regular dive bombers because I have to fly straight for so long to line the reticle up, flak murders me, and also because of the immersive idiocy of WG’s stupid dive bombing attack animation.

Screw that fly up, then down garbage. Just dive down and drop the freaking bombs.

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13 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

lol

Exact opposite for me.

The carpet bombers work because I can at least try to evade a bit and still manage to get the reticle reasonably on target.

I hate regular dive bombers because I have to fly straight for so long to line the reticle up, flak murders me, and also because of the immersive idiocy of WG’s stupid dive bombing attack animation.

Screw that fly up, then down garbage. Just dive down and drop the freaking bombs.

The up down is very silly.

Glad there working for you.  Thats why there are different type of ships.

Edited by jags_domain

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22 hours ago, DevilD0g said:

if you have ever played the British tier 4 carrier Hermes , and thats the only carrier im talking about in this forum,,, not high tier carriers, tier 4 carrier Hermes only , read my lips. It suffers badly with not being able to launch 2 torps on a salvo as the other carriers at that level as they can only launch 1.    they dont seem to be more maneuverable than other planes. they seem to get shot down as regularly as other carrier planes.

While it may have mid level damage compared to the other carriers in tier 4, the fact that it has to make more runs on target with 1 torp  is a depreciating factor in regards to you have to make double the runs on target to make a sinking compared to other carriers in the same tier. There fore it takes twice as long to sink capital ships compared to other carriers.   

Not to mention that  you run out of shot down torpedo bombers faster, its not being whiny, its just logic.   That's why i say the Hermes needs a buff to have 2 torps a salvo.

The AA level has increased on that tier now so they just get chewed up

Its torpedoes don't do the most damage at 5200, the Japanese Hosho does  at 5400 and they can launch 2 of them in a salvo and the stats support it.

Warship Tier     Type                Nation     Battles     Win rate     Avg.   
Langley  4     Aircraft Carrier     U.S.A.     625 085     50.53 %     0.59     
Hōshō      4     Aircraft Carrier     Japan     460 823     52.37 %     0.81
Hermes   4     Aircraft Carrier     U.K.     246 144     51.89 %     0.7

also statistically worked out AVE carrier plane losses

langley  33  Hosho  35   Hermes  38  so hermes has the highest plane rate loss.

**Note in these stats, they only ones i could get, its not the strongest carrier at tier 4, Hosho is, and Hosho has those citadel capable bombs that the other carriers dont have.

Only Hermes im talking about, no other carrier or tier, it needs to have its salvo upgraded to  2 torp release and not one, like the other carriers on that tier.

Oink Goltz!
CVs are extremely complex and hard to play at all tiers. For ex, one aerial torpedo isn't enough to sink a DD, that is completely not historically accurate. It should be something like, 1 aerial torp sinks 1 DD, 2 or 3 a CA, 5 or 6 a BB. Same for rockets, bombs. When I play DD, CA or BB, I don't even notice the difference between CV and non CV battles, except if there are 2 or 3 CVs.
Please buff CVs at absolutely all tiers.
Oink Goltz!
 

2020-04-24_17h03_32.png

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British CV's are the lowest alpha damage in the game among the class. They rely on dots. Your carpet bombers are supposed to be your niche not your torpedoes. T-4 carriers only do around 4K damage per torp. They aren't going to buff the torps it is working the way they designed it.. If you don't have andrew cunningham as your commander as you go up the line you're not going to get the most out of the class in that nation. If you want a good torp boat go Japanese ( highest alpha ) or american. Although the japanese also have potent bombs

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17 hours ago, michael_zahnle said:

I didn't join a division until I was playing Tier 6 ships... Bayern to be precise.  Could the presence of a T5 joined with somebody else in a division have brought them in?

No, a lower tier divisioned with a higher tier will bring the lower tier up into a higher tier battle than it normally would get, but the higher tier ship will never get a lower tier battle outside its normal range.

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