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World of Warships Ship Opinions: Friedrich der Grosse

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World of Warships Ship Opinions: Friedrich der Grosse

Friedrich der Große - Global wiki. Wargaming.net

Big Nasty Battleship to boot

As far as battleships go, there are three types. The first type tends towards the battlecruiser type, the ships that tend to move around and make use of their speed and firepower to crush a flank. The second type represents the current order of the game, long range artillery platforms that are designed to rain death and destruction upon their enemies. And then there are the Shove-The-Guns-In-Their-Face juggernauts, massive battlewagons that play rock and roll all day long until their enemies just can’t take it anymore. And at Tier 9, there’s only one battleship of that kind, the Friedrich Der Grosse, an H-39 class battleship with incredible armor, high speed, and enough firepower to make both the Spanish Armada and the British Armada run for their lives three times over. Of course, it’s not like this ship has no weaknesses. It’s a huge target that people just love to shoot at, and it turns quite poorly as well, not to mention it rather glaring accuracy issues at ranges it’s not supposed to be shooting at. Nevertheless, I’m here to sort out the actual facts about this massive warship, as well as dispel some of the myths that have long proved derisive to the almighty Frederick the Great.


Armor: Insert Turtleback meme

Pros: Titanic HP Pool, Deck armor invulnerable to HE spam, Turtleback B i t c h

Cons: Massive target, burns like a torch, Vulnerable to long range AP fire, Turtleback is not an instant “I win” card in a slugfest.

Sometimes, making things bigger is actually better, no matter what Yuro says. The Germans designers working on the H-class literally took the blueprints of the Bismarck and made them bigger and badder, with quite astounding results within the game. The Friedrich Der Grosse might only have 300mm of belt armor, but it benefits from not only having a turtleback armor scheme, but improved turtleback sloping as well ( 55* vs 45* as found on the Bismarck ), which allows it to take anything for minimal penetration damage out to a range of around 20km. After this, however, plunging fire shots have a chance to go clean through the turtleback and completely negate it. Of course, the trade off is well worth it in a close up slugging match, where every other battleship just eats citadel after citadel, while Big Freddy here just takes penetration damage. Of course, massive amounts of penetration damage is no different than massive amounts of citadel damage, only that it heals back better, and when you’ve got a target that’s bigger than an Iowa to shoot at, who wouldn't want to put penetrating shots into the side of this thing. Speaking of healing things, would you look at that HP pool? 84,300 hitpoints on the top hull puts it miles ahead of almost every single one of its competitors, with the exception of the 88k Soyuz and the 97k Musashi. Other things of note include a 120mm splinter belt and a 60mm raised icebreaker bow that serves as a giant middle finger to overmatch shots from Yamato, Musashi, and Shikishima, as well as 80mm deck sections that completely negate almost all HE damage, save large caliber British and German HE shells. Of course, it burns like a torch, but that’s like every battleship these days, and who ain’t I kidding when I say I’ve gotten burned down in a Freddy?

Rating: WTAF

How to Make it worse: removing her improved deck and bow armor would really ruin it for her.


Armaments: Super-Bismarck

Pros: Fastest gun reload of all Tech-tree Tier 9 Battleships, blistering turret traverse, monstrous secondaries, 27mm overmatch, 420mm guns have improved energy retention at all ranges.

Cons: Wonky accuracy, short firing range, needs IFHE to be more effective with her secondary guns, bad rear turret angles.

Okay, okay, let’s get the complaining out of the way first. Freddy has pretty bad accuracy as battleships go, but that was nearly 6 patches ago, before it got its dispersion buffed to acceptable levels. Now of course, well, it’s still a shotgun from time to time, but who cares when you have a 26 second reload on 16 inch guns? Of course, the Friedrich has two gun options, the first one being the fast firing 406mm guns, and an upgraded 420mm set that trades rate of fire for improved long range penetration and an increase in Alpha strike by 800 points of damage. It’s not much, but that penetration really shows itself when it needs to. In fact, the 420mm guns actually have enough penetration and a flat enough ballistic curve to citadel USN Battleships at ranges up to 16 kilometers, which is frankly, stupid as all hell can get. Then again, you don’t shoot at targets that far away in the Friedrich der Grosse. Where you want to be is up close and personal, where another tool ( and a stupid quick 5.5 degree per second turret traverse ) of the Friedrich makes itself apparent: the secondaries. It’s the same layout as the Bismarck, but the guns have slightly longer range and a slightly improved rate of fire, as well as improved firing angles. However, having the same layout as the Bismarck also means 105mm guns, and that means, despite the improved German HE penetration, you need IFHE in order to really make them work. Of course, that’s a minor complaint when there are bigger issues than that to deal with. Other complaints? It’s largely just the firing angles here, which force der Friedrich to give a very uncomfortable amount of broadside to bring those rear turrets to bear. But that’s about it.

Rating: Good

How to make it better: Give her Bismarck’s firing angles and a wee bit better accuracy.


AA: Above Average

Pros: German 105mm DP guns, breathtaking midrange ring on top hull, AA with full secondary build goes absolutely ballistic.

Cons: Short range AA is all fireworks, stock AA is terrible, Battleship AA in general is questionable.

Friedrich’s AA is a bit of a mixed bag. On one hand, her Stock AA is downright terrible ( it’s worse than that of the Tier 7 Gneisenau in her stock configuration ). However, once you get her top hull, she gains a grand total of 26 dual 37mm mounts, which increases her midrange ringe by damn near 700%, though at a slight cost to her long range ring and short range ring, though, if I’m being honest, that short range ring was already practically worthless. One other (good) thing of note is that the 105mm mounts, despite having shorter range than the USN 127mm DP guns, seem to be as effective as those guns, for whatever reason that only Wargaming knows. The only other bad thing of note is that Battleship AA, due to accuracy issues, is quite sketchy. Of course, nothing is sketchy when the Friedrich runs a full secondary build and also simultaneously rubs it’s AA with creatine ( because lol BFT and AFT Mechanics )

Rating: Good

How to make it better: Adding a few 55mm Gerat guns wouldnt be a bad idea. Another ( big ) set of 20mm guns to beef up her short range would also do it


Maneuverability: Brick

Pros: High speed, higher than average turning rate

Cons: Large turning radius, loses a lot of speed in a turn

If Friedrich was any less maneuverable than it is now, it would be so incredibly derp-a-licious that I might need to see a gut doctor after I was through with it. However, it’s not terrible at dancing, so I’m not going to eat it. It has a fairly high top speed of 30 knots, which isn’t all that bad, though the turning radius of 940 meters is quite appalling, and the turn rate might be higher than average, but at 4.0 degrees per second, it’s still fairly slow. It’s rudder shift is perfectly mediocre, at 17.5 seconds, and the ship itself loses a lot of speed in a hard turn, up to 6 knots or so, which is not good when you have to dodge torpedoes. Overall, the Friedrich can dance, but if you want to really dance, you will definitely need to install that 4th slot steering module ( at your own risk of burning down, however)

Rating: Poor

How to make it better: Improve her rudder by a couple of seconds or give her better velocity retention in a turn.


Stealth: More Brick

Pros: Fairly decent detection radius when built for stealth, German Hydroacoustic search

Cons: Everything else.

Friedrich der Grosse is not a small ship by any means, and it really shows when it comes to sneaking around the battlefield. The Bismarck could be forgiven for being such a big ship because it has a sub-14.5km detection radius even without a Concealment Expert-trained commander ( at 14.3km ). However, the Friedrich cannot be forgiven for being such a big ship because of the fact that it’s detection radius is absolutely gigantic to start with, at 17.3 kilometers base, and with a typically given build ( i.e full secondaries ), that drops to just over 15 kilometers, which is, to be completely honest, absolutely terrible, especially in the competition with other battleships at her tier such as Iowa, Soyuz, and Alsace. There are a couple of good things, however. For starters, a full survival build drops her detection range to just over 13.5 kilometers, which is still fairly competitive, even against some of the sneakier competition ( such as the aformentioned warships ), and second, the FdG has an actual utility tool: Hydroacoustic search, and not just any Hydroacoustic search, but the German variant. This means a 4km torpedo spotting range and a 6km ship spotting range, which in turn means that the Friedrich can practically run down anything stupid enough to not see it coming around a corner, or it can just park outside of a smokescreen, flip on the hydro, and just blast away with it’s secondary guns. Point is? If he’s got hydro running and he’s caught you…

Run

Rating: Acceptable

How to make it better: Chop off a couple hundred meters from the surface detection.

 


The Verdict

Armor: 5 / 5

Armaments: 4 / 5

AA: 4 / 5

Maneuverability: 2 / 5

Stealth: 3 / 5

Overall Score: 18 / 25 ( Gudbote )

General Writer Review: If this damn thing didn’t turn and shoot like a drunken three legged cow with half a brain, it just might be overpowered.


Welp, that’s all I got for you fellas this week. I decided to drop the whole comparison test thing because I feel like comparing ships is up to you guys, not me….

SIKE

Iowa vs Soyuz comes this Sunday!

Image result for that's all folks

 

Edited by Shrayes_Bhagavatula
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2 hours ago, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:

and enough firepower to make both the Spanish Armada and the British Armada run for their lives three times over.

Huh? :Smile_amazed:

Only packing eight 406mm guns at T9 makes it one of the least powerful gun platforms compared to her same-tier contemporaries.  While not abysmal, I don't think anyone really quivers in their boots over the weapons here.  There are a lot scarier guns to worry about at T9 than these ones.

Edited by Ace_04
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1 minute ago, Ace_04 said:

Huh? :Smile_amazed:

Only packing eight 406mm guns at T9 makes it one of the least powerful gun platforms compared to her same-tier contemporaries.  While not abysmal, I don't think anyone really quivers in their boots over the weapons here.  There are a lot scarier guns to worry about at T9 than these ones.

I wasn't just talking about the main guns, my friend. I was talking about the whole armaments package, Main guns, secondary guns, AA guns, all of it:fish_viking:

:SerB:

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1 hour ago, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:

I wasn't just talking about the main guns, my friend. I was talking about the whole armaments package, Main guns, secondary guns, AA guns, all of it:fish_viking:

:SerB:

So you stay 12 km away and burn it to the waterline like every other German BB. The "whole armaments package" just ain't all that impressive, and to be quite honest I'd much rather face a Fat Freddy De Goober than a Jean Bart.

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1 hour ago, Umikami said:

So you stay 12 km away and burn it to the waterline like every other German BB. The "whole armaments package" just ain't all that impressive, and to be quite honest I'd much rather face a Fat Freddy De Goober than a Jean Bart.

Clearly. I admit that the Friedrich tends to burn all to easily, but it's not like it's not dangerous. It might have bad accuracy, but its still German 16 inch AP, and it hurts if it connects. Jean Bart on the other hand gets face tanked for days by everything. 

:SerB:

 

 

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1 hour ago, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:

Clearly. I admit that the Friedrich tends to burn all to easily, but it's not like it's not dangerous. It might have bad accuracy, but its still German 16 inch AP, and it hurts if it connects. Jean Bart on the other hand gets face tanked for days by everything. 

:SerB:

Nothing you have said is wrong, yet at the end of the match I would not be surprised to see Jean Bart still there and Fat Freddy not, the Jean Bart just seems to be a very survivable ship, and like you said, Fat Freddy burns very, very well.

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55 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Nothing you have said is wrong, yet at the end of the match I would not be surprised to see Jean Bart still there and Fat Freddy not, the Jean Bart just seems to be a very survivable ship, and like you said, Fat Freddy burns very, very well.

I really do have to ask though. Does the Jean Bart have some sort of weird gimmick that I missed, or is it because everyone just loves shooting at German Battleships?

:SerB:

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1 hour ago, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:

I really do have to ask though. Does the Jean Bart have some sort of weird gimmick that I missed, or is it because everyone just loves shooting at German Battleships?

:SerB:

People do seem to love shooting German BBs, no doubt. 

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2 hours ago, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:

I really do have to ask though. Does the Jean Bart have some sort of weird gimmick that I missed, or is it because everyone just loves shooting at German Battleships?

:SerB:

speed boost, accurate guns, and MBRB means you can get away or dump on anyone that is a good target.  AA on the JB is very solid.   The secondaries are not too impressive, and all in the back of the ship.  JB is squishier overall, but it is a far better package.  With the recent nerfs to 15in and 16in guns at the higher tiers, both of them suffer a bit. 

 

I will say the FDG is one of the better kiting BBs if you can keep someone pushing into your secondaries.(even better with the pen buffs)  Rear firing angles are not bad either.  It is the handling, large superstructer, and overall meh main battery that keeps it from shining.  I guess there is one minor boost, it has better deck armor than even the GK. 

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I'd hate to be the guy that brings stats into this, but I have a difficult time taking someone's opinions seriously when they have utterly dismal stats on the ship they are talking about.

Like, maybe work on actually playing it well before you write reviews on it.

No offence.

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9 minutes ago, KosmicRavioli said:

I'd hate to be the guy that brings stats into this, but I have a difficult time taking someone's opinions seriously when they have utterly dismal stats on the ship they are talking about.

Like, maybe work on actually playing it well before you write reviews on it.

No offence.

Why did you then?

You don't have to be great at wielding a weapon to understand what makes it great (or poor).  Example : I am a multiple award rifle expert with the M-16A1.  I know exactly how to put rounds on a target consistently.  That does not make me an armorer.  Conversely, my brother is a firearms expert.  His knowledge of them is encyclopedic.  He is a decent shot but not consistently expert level.  Do you see what I am driving at here?

Let me ask you this...

What part of the OP's review of Fat Freddie did you not agree with?  How would you characterize her?  I would like to hear your take.

PSA : This post was written with a complete absence of salt, vile or malignant intent.  It is not intended to be a troll or an attack.  :Smile_Default:

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30 minutes ago, Captain_Slattery said:

Why did you then?

You don't have to be great at wielding a weapon to understand what makes it great (or poor).  Example : I am a multiple award rifle expert with the M-16A1.  I know exactly how to put rounds on a target consistently.  That does not make me an armorer.  Conversely, my brother is a firearms expert.  His knowledge of them is encyclopedic.  He is a decent shot but not consistently expert level.  Do you see what I am driving at here?

Let me ask you this...

What part of the OP's review of Fat Freddie did you not agree with?  How would you characterize her?  I would like to hear your take.

PSA : This post was written with a complete absence of salt, vile or malignant intent.  It is not intended to be a troll or an attack.  :Smile_Default:

Could not have said it better......

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1 hour ago, Captain_Slattery said:

Why did you then?

You don't have to be great at wielding a weapon to understand what makes it great (or poor).  Example : I am a multiple award rifle expert with the M-16A1.  I know exactly how to put rounds on a target consistently.  That does not make me an armorer.  Conversely, my brother is a firearms expert.  His knowledge of them is encyclopedic.  He is a decent shot but not consistently expert level.  Do you see what I am driving at here?

Let me ask you this...

What part of the OP's review of Fat Freddie did you not agree with?  How would you characterize her?  I would like to hear your take.

PSA : This post was written with a complete absence of salt, vile or malignant intent.  It is not intended to be a troll or an attack.  :Smile_Default:

Fair point, but in this game, expertise (or even a decent understanding of the principles and mechanics of gameplay) is directly correlated with the success a person achieves.

You don't have to be an expert in every field of mathematics to be a mathematician, but objectively failing to do maths would categorically disqualify you from giving opinions about maths from a seat of authority. And writing reviews about a particular subject for public consumption assumes you have that authority. For example, I often do not agree with LWM's opinions on ships and the general state of the game, but I respect and recognise her authority on the subject because she works her [edited]off digging up and analysing factual stats on the ships and can back her understanding of the subject with her in-game performance.

I mean, one can obviously still give an opinion on a subject they are clearly unqualified to do so (the internet says hi), but you take it seriously at your own peril.
If I'm looking for insight on how a car drives, I would rather hear the opinions of someone who can take a car to its limits, rather than someone who can't keep it straight on the road.

As for my opinions on the ship; I deliberately refrain from giving feedback on the German BBs when people ask, because I utterly suck in them, so my view has no value for someone looking for genuine input. I really only give opinions/builds/advice on some cruisers and some DDs, because those are the ones I feel I'm actually qualified for.
With that said, the FDG is widely recognised to be one of, if not the worst T9 BB in the game. So I vehemently disagree with the opinion that it's a "gudbote" shy of a little accuracy buff from being OP, at her tier.

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50 minutes ago, KosmicRavioli said:

Fair point, but in this game, expertise (or even a decent understanding of the principles and mechanics of gameplay) is directly correlated with the success a person achieves.

You don't have to be an expert in every field of mathematics to be a mathematician, but objectively failing to do maths would categorically disqualify you from giving opinions about maths from a seat of authority. And writing reviews about a particular subject for public consumption assumes you have that authority. For example, I often do not agree with LWM's opinions on ships and the general state of the game, but I respect and recognise her authority on the subject because she works her [edited]off digging up and analysing factual stats on the ships and can back her understanding of the subject with her in-game performance.

I mean, one can obviously still give an opinion on a subject they are clearly unqualified to do so (the internet says hi), but you take it seriously at your own peril.
If I'm looking for insight on how a car drives, I would rather hear the opinions of someone who can take a car to its limits, rather than someone who can't keep it straight on the road.

As for my opinions on the ship; I deliberately refrain from giving feedback on the German BBs when people ask, because I utterly suck in them, so my view has no value for someone looking for genuine input. I really only give opinions/builds/advice on some cruisers and some DDs, because those are the ones I feel I'm actually qualified for.
With that said, the FDG is widely recognised to be one of, if not the worst T9 BB in the game. So I vehemently disagree with the opinion that it's a "gudbote" shy of a little accuracy buff from being OP, at her tier.

Ok.  I see where you're driving here.  What you are describing is an argument based on expertise.  An argument from authority is different and is also widely viewed as a fallacy unless all sides of the discussion agree on the reliability of the authority.  Example Don't quote the Bible if your debate opponent doesn't recognize the authority of it.  Correct me if I am wrong but I believe that is the point you are making.

Expertise based arguments are strong only when you understand what the expert is saying.  It would be safe to say that we do understand this game well enough to understand the experts like LittleWhiteMouse.  Their opinions on ships should carry more weight than opinions from you or I or the OP.

That doesn't mean that our opinions should be ignored.  I don't consider our OP an expert on Wows.  I don't dismiss his opinions out of hand either.  There is valuable information to be had, I think.  There is certainly room for conversation to discuss areas of disagreement among peers.

I, personally, refrain from giving advice about any ship in a competitive environment.  I have little experience and no expertise in those areas.  I do feel comfortable giving advice on game play or ship performance for PVE game modes.  I don't know what experience our OP has other than his battle count thus I consider his opinion as coming from a peer, not an expert source.

Now Fat Freddie is a co-op powerhouse and is a blast to play especially with a full secondary build.  You are a pretty good random main so I would give your opinion more weight than my own with regards to FtG in a competitive game mode.  Her best features would rarely be on display there but she sings like an Opera star in co-op.  For me anyway.

I like this.  This is a nice discussion we're having here.  +1 to you.  :cap_like:

Edited by Captain_Slattery
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5 hours ago, KosmicRavioli said:

I'd hate to be the guy that brings stats into this, but I have a difficult time taking someone's opinions seriously when they have utterly dismal stats on the ship they are talking about.

Like, maybe work on actually playing it well before you write reviews on it.

No offence.

Kinda makes your point moot, coming from a reroll account.

One should not cast stones in a house of glass.

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5 hours ago, KosmicRavioli said:

I'd hate to be the guy that brings stats into this, but I have a difficult time taking someone's opinions seriously when they have utterly dismal stats on the ship they are talking about.

Like, maybe work on actually playing it well before you write reviews on it.

No offence.

I admit, a 42% winrate on the Friedrich der Grosse is terrible.

But think about it this way. When I make reviews of these ships, I never take into account my own skill ( because I'm an absolute potato ). Instead, I take into account just how good the ship actually is, because that's what's important to me when I review ships. You could plonk a super-unicum into any ship ( yes, even the Krispy Krem-khm I mean Krasny Krym ), and they'd still outperform anyone because they're that damn good. Of course, there are exceptions, such as Stalingrad and Smolensk, but that's Russian Bias and I'm not going to go there for the sake of this discussion. And it's not like it was my fault for losing so much in the Friedrich. I played every game like the best game I could ( and I'm not half bad for an absolute potato ), but the stock hull grind was rough, which largely explains why I lost more often than not. Once I unlocked the upgraded hull and retrained my commander, everything started to go nice and peachy ( though too little too late, as it would seem ). That was my experience with the Friedrich der Grosse. The experience of other players will also differ from mine. I'm sure you had a different experience as well.

Just my two cents

:SerB:

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16 hours ago, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:

needs IFHE to be more effective with her secondary guns 

 

I prefer to take Manual Secondaries over IFHE.  It's just a better fit for me when coupled with BFT and AFT.  Fast and accurate is better than fast and punchy any day.

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1 hour ago, Captain_Slattery said:

I prefer to take Manual Secondaries over IFHE.  It's just a better fit for me when coupled with BFT and AFT.  Fast and accurate is better than fast and punchy any day.

Same for me. Her secondaries feel like her strongest point and I think Manual Secondaries gives a bigger consistent improvement. Honestly, I don't love FDG but the ship is very functional if you get into closer to mid ranges where her secondaries can fire, her turtleback provides better protection and her hydro helps against torps. The ship really falls apart at mid to long ranges. 

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