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Lurper

What DD's do.

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The day before yesterday, I had a game in my Halland where our CV rocket attacked me at the end because I wouldn't "Cap" or "get in there and kill their Halland". Ignoring the fact that he was one of those useless CV players who attack the BB's and ignores the DD'S until they are crawling up his bung hole, he seemed to think that it was my job to rush into the cap against a full health Halland with a Yammy 12k away and their CV still active in my half-health Halland. NEWSFLASH: I'm not rushing to certain death just because you think it's my job to do "X". It's not every DD's job to spot, cap or kill DD's. Each DD is suited to certain tasks and not others. While I will cap and spot in my Shima, I won't hunt DD's. I won't cap or spot in a Khab, but will attack other DD's. Halland is not particularly well suited to capping (no smoke, not overly stealthy) but can be effective if used properly. It is definitely not a DD killer (slow moving turrets, not high damage guns) except against torpedo boats. But is good at spotting and attacking BB"s (albeit with noodle torps that do less than 10k avg. dmg.).

In short, if you don't know a particular ships characteristics, don't tell others how to play it. This is particularly true of CV players. Especially those who ignore enemy DD's. Nothing is more satisfying than seeing a enemy DD wreck our CV after spending most of the game saying "kill the DD's ffs, CV." Sometimes, I come to their rescue. Other times, I just can't bring myself to intervene until it's too late for our CV. Instant Karma!

Edited by Lurper
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Yeah, I don't even worry about the flanks anymore!  Just let that dude through and let Darwin sort out the details.  

And shima and that sort of boat is the only thing that can be reliably said to be a capper.  But shimas get radared just like everything else and in this day and age, the question is how long your HP pool can stand up against the DPM flying around.  

A really good DD captain can cap in just about everything.  But those are somewhat rare and exceptions happen all the time.  Much better to have those DDs around in the late game to deal with all the full health BBs who finally get into the game after everything else dies.

:P

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In my Yuugumo and Shima, I am capping, spotting, torping, cheeky shooting on enemy DDs, finishing low-health cruisers or battleships, etc... I am literally doing a crap ton of things in my single DD.

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CVs? I dodge them, ignore them, and don't out-right play on my own when I am certain the enemy CV is looking out for DDs on their own. After I am certain the enemy CV is more focusing on my Radar Cruisers and stopping BB pushes, I'll push past and begin lighting up the enemy fleet, dropping torps on them, throwing their formations out of whack, punishing pushes and just overall being annoying. I play EXACTLY the same way in my Shimakaze. It works, don't ever be afraid to push a DD off the cap with your guns in an IJN DD. They sting,  they sting a lot, you have 2,200 HE damage per shot, it hurts to be smacked by a 4-5k HE salvo from an IJN DD. I generally ignore whiners, and just play my way. This is why I have success in my IJN DDs.

~Hunter

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Check your math bro, your guns did a whopping 291 damage per hit. 15132/52 = 291. Hunting DD"s in most IJN boats is not wise. Sure, in my almost 1k games in my Shima, I've outgunned the occasional Gearing, Hag or other gunboat. But, that's the exception and not the rule. If you get caught with your turrets facing the opposite way of the threat, you are going to get seriously hurt before you can bring your guns to bear. If you're in torp cooldown, you're doubly screwed. I'll hunt them in my Hag. But, I've had games with 200+ hits and 20k damage - again, do the math. Yet people still cry about DD's being OP. Whatever!

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23 minutes ago, Lurper said:

Check your math bro, your guns did a whopping 291 damage per hit. 15132/52 = 291. Hunting DD"s in most IJN boats is not wise. Sure, in my almost 1k games in my Shima, I've outgunned the occasional Gearing, Hag or other gunboat. But, that's the exception and not the rule. If you get caught with your turrets facing the opposite way of the threat, you are going to get seriously hurt before you can bring your guns to bear. If you're in torp cooldown, you're doubly screwed. I'll hunt them in my Hag. But, I've had games with 200+ hits and 20k damage - again, do the math. Yet people still cry about DD's being OP. Whatever!

My opening salvo on the Friesland hit him for a total of 4k HE damage because I landed 5 shells on him. Then switched to AP when he went broadside and smacked him for a further 2k damage from overpens before he snuffed a torpedo. Never ever be afraid to use your guns or use your IJN DDs aggressively. You can check my stats in Yuugumo, Kagerou and Shima. I'm not lying when I say I am successful in them.

~Hunter

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Maybe DD's need an option to switch AA to work against Green planes too. 

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28 minutes ago, Lurper said:

Check your math bro, your guns did a whopping 291 damage per hit. 15132/52 = 291. Hunting DD"s in most IJN boats is not wise. Sure, in my almost 1k games in my Shima, I've outgunned the occasional Gearing, Hag or other gunboat. But, that's the exception and not the rule. If you get caught with your turrets facing the opposite way of the threat, you are going to get seriously hurt before you can bring your guns to bear. If you're in torp cooldown, you're doubly screwed. I'll hunt them in my Hag. But, I've had games with 200+ hits and 20k damage - again, do the math. Yet people still cry about DD's being OP. Whatever!

 

To be fair, any IJN DD captain who isn't running with RPF at this point is probably very new to them. I know I always use it to make sure my guns are positioned where I need them before I need them ( same as with a BB ) .

 

That said, you will always have players telling others how to play their ships and/or not playing how you'd want them to. That's part of the game, and I would just ignore them unless they actually have something valid to say. You only command your own ship, no one else's.

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No one said you're not successful. Nor that anyone was "afraid" to use guns on IJN DD's. I just did the math. You can't use your outlier initial salvo as a representative sample of what DD (IJN or otherwise) guns do. I play all my DD"s aggressively. But that doesn't change the fact that some are better suited to certain tasks than others. 

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57 minutes ago, Hunter_Steel said:

CVs? I dodge them, ignore them, and don't out-right play on my own when I am certain the enemy CV is looking out for DDs on their own.

CV are human, thus opportunistic. Unless you grab too much attention he will go against other juicy targets, especially since only rocket plane are effective against DD.

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4 minutes ago, Jakob_Knight said:

 

To be fair, any IJN DD captain who isn't running with RPF at this point is probably very new to them. I know I always use it to make sure my guns are positioned where I need them before I need them ( same as with a BB ) .

 

That said, you will always have players telling others how to play their ships and/or not playing how you'd want them to. That's part of the game, and I would just ignore them unless they actually have something valid to say. You only command your own ship, no one else's.

Agreed. But, I've always run RPF and there are still times when you get caught off guard. Like when you are making a torp run on the closest ship to you then all of a sudden a DD closes on you from a different direction. 

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At the end of the day there’s always someone who can play your DD better than you can whether they’ve ever played a DD in there whole WoWs career or not! Same goes for all ship classes. It’s one of the reasons I hate the karma system. I recently lost 3 karma points in a game from a 3 man division because I didn’t “Set a smoke screen (repeated about a 1000 times” ... in my Halland! Lol

Its possible to cap and spot in any DD. Looking at the team line-ups and what other DDs are on the enemy team (as they don’t always match) tells me the “risk factor”. Even without smoke a Halland can contest caps especially with a couple of friends with him. You have great area denial torps and I’ve caught more than one Shima with them before I even spotted him.

At the end of the day OP you play your ships to the strength you can play them at. I’ll cap and contest any cap in any of my DDs if the timing seems/is right.

Good luck mate and stay safe!

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4 minutes ago, Lurper said:

Agreed. But, I've always run RPF and there are still times when you get caught off guard. Like when you are making a torp run on the closest ship to you then all of a sudden a DD closes on you from a different direction. 

True, but that means you are in a furball, and no DD can point its weapons in all directions. Most times, the IJN DD will spot the other DD first, and get the first shot in. Don't discount being able to cost the other DD a thousand or more HPs before the duel really starts.

 

Ultimately, one thing I've come to understand is simply that, if it isn't Ranked, Clan, or some kind of scenario/collection, battles don't mean anything, really. By that, I mean what happens in each doesn't affect battles after them. So, if someone wants to TK you, just shrug and move on to the next battle. They are the ones who will be dealing with Probation, Restriction, or Ban, while you will be in a new battle with new players.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Jakob_Knight said:

 

To be fair, any IJN DD captain who isn't running with RPF at this point is probably very new to them. I know I always use it to make sure my guns are positioned where I need them before I need them ( same as with a BB ) .

 

That said, you will always have players telling others how to play their ships and/or not playing how you'd want them to. That's part of the game, and I would just ignore them unless they actually have something valid to say. You only command your own ship, no one else's.

I'm always trying be 100% aware of where all enemy DDs are. I'm usually always approaching from a direction that keeps my guns on sight, considering my DD captain doesn't have 19 points so no RPF for me right now.

11 minutes ago, Lurper said:

No one said you're not successful. Nor that anyone was "afraid" to use guns on IJN DD's. I just did the math. You can't use your outlier initial salvo as a representative sample of what DD (IJN or otherwise) guns do. I play all my DD"s aggressively. But that doesn't change the fact that some are better suited to certain tasks than others. 

Yes, some are better suited to others. The math only showed you what my average damage was per gun, but that's not what my damage counters showed me on the whopping 3 targets I fired my guns at. Firing on the Donksoi was what hurt my damage late game. I always want to face palm when I see an IJN DD get detected by another DD and immediately turn away or try to get a torp salvo off never once touching his guns. Hell, I've even aggressively chased down other IJN DDs in mine and they refused to use their guns until the last second when it was too late. This is where the success of the IJN DD comes in. While it may not be a good all-rounder like the USN DDs, just relying purely on torpedo salvos or spotting will not net decent results, you have to think outside the box and outsmart other DDs. (It helps to know how other DDs are usually played so you can work around them.) As such, while I do hate how IJN DDs are usually just skewed into one of two roles in a game, I try to do as much as physically allowed by my small 21k HP pool. The point I was making is that battles generally don't allow you to play the ship in a way it was meant to be played, which is why I am running a hybrid build on my Shimakaze and have found the most success that way instead, allowing myself the ability to think outside the box is what allows me to be able to catch people off-guard and generally play well.

 

Major piece of advice I can give to any DD captain: DONT BE ASLEEP. If you're playing a DD and are not aware of whats going on around you, and you get destroyed as a result, it's not the ship's fault. (Although there are some real stinker DDs around)

 

~Hunter

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It is your quarter, don't let the kids sitting around the game watching (especially the dead ones) tell you how to play your game. You and only you know your comfort factor in a ship based on the situation around you and you alone know your capabilities.

Now the CV going for you would get a ticket sent in, There is never a reason for an intentional TK! I wish wegee would do what so so many games have done and taken the ability for friendly fire out of the equations it only encourages bad behavior.

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I think the thing is that most DD captains who know how and when to cap, will cap when those things line up.  And the DD captains who aren't sure or are just tentative should probably not try to cap and focus on surviving into the late game when it's much easier to cap and they are much more valuable. 

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2 hours ago, Lurper said:

Ignoring the fact that he was one of those useless CV players who attack the BB's and ignores the DD'S until they are crawling up his bung hole,

:Smile_veryhappy:

I play CV's and DD's. I know what it is like to be in each and relying on the other to do their job. You was correct in your assessment of not needing to be in the cap under those circumstances. I also know what its like being in a DD and appreciating a CV to drop fighter coverage over you ESPECIALLY if you are in a DD that has no smoke. In addition, sailing a CV and relying on your DD to help provide vision so you can assess where to send your planes, and your DD doing so without dying from committing spudaku in a cap circle they didn't need to be in.

+1

Edited by Capt_Ahab1776

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4 minutes ago, CommodoreKang said:

I think the thing is that most DD captains who know how and when to cap, will cap when those things line up.  And the DD captains who aren't sure or are just tentative should probably not try to cap and focus on surviving into the late game when it's much easier to cap and they are much more valuable. 

That's my point. If you're not driving a DD, then don't tell them when to cap, spot, hunt DD's, etc. I play the Shima more than any other ship (959 games), I think I have a decent grasp of what it is capable of. Someone who plays other ships primarily probably has no clue. Hence, no idea when the timing is right. So, they should just stfu and play their own ship. My underlying point is that just because there is a DD on your team, don't think that means he has to cap, spot or hunt DD's. It depends on which boat he is driving. 

18 minutes ago, Hunter_Steel said:

I'm always trying be 100% aware of where all enemy DDs are. I'm usually always approaching from a direction that keeps my guns on sight, considering my DD captain doesn't have 19 points so no RPF for me right now.

Yes, some are better suited to others. The math only showed you what my average damage was per gun, but that's not what my damage counters showed me on the whopping 3 targets I fired my guns at. Firing on the Donksoi was what hurt my damage late game. I always want to face palm when I see an IJN DD get detected by another DD and immediately turn away or try to get a torp salvo off never once touching his guns. Hell, I've even aggressively chased down other IJN DDs in mine and they refused to use their guns until the last second when it was too late. This is where the success of the IJN DD comes in. While it may not be a good all-rounder like the USN DDs, just relying purely on torpedo salvos or spotting will not net decent results, you have to think outside the box and outsmart other DDs. (It helps to know how other DDs are usually played so you can work around them.) As such, while I do hate how IJN DDs are usually just skewed into one of two roles in a game, I try to do as much as physically allowed by my small 21k HP pool. The point I was making is that battles generally don't allow you to play the ship in a way it was meant to be played, which is why I am running a hybrid build on my Shimakaze and have found the most success that way instead, allowing myself the ability to think outside the box is what allows me to be able to catch people off-guard and generally play well.

 

Major piece of advice I can give to any DD captain: DONT BE ASLEEP. If you're playing a DD and are not aware of whats going on around you, and you get destroyed as a result, it's not the ship's fault. (Although there are some real stinker DDs around)

 

~Hunter

We'll have to agree to disagree. I have more than 5k games in DD's - 3100 in IJN boats alone and I firmly believe that with a couple of exceptions, IJN DD's are primarily torpedo boats. I won't pick a fight with a Kleber, Khab, Daring, Gearing, etc. in my Shima. I will only engage when I have no choice. I much prefer to engage with torps. 

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58 minutes ago, Lurper said:

That's my point. If you're not driving a DD, then don't tell them when to cap, spot, hunt DD's, etc. I play the Shima more than any other ship (959 games), I think I have a decent grasp of what it is capable of. Someone who plays other ships primarily probably has no clue. Hence, no idea when the timing is right. So, they should just stfu and play their own ship. My underlying point is that just because there is a DD on your team, don't think that means he has to cap, spot or hunt DD's. It depends on which boat he is driving. 

We'll have to agree to disagree. I have more than 5k games in DD's - 3100 in IJN boats alone and I firmly believe that with a couple of exceptions, IJN DD's are primarily torpedo boats. I won't pick a fight with a Kleber, Khab, Daring, Gearing, etc. in my Shima. I will only engage when I have no choice. I much prefer to engage with torps. 

It works for some, but not others I suppose. I pretty much only play IJN DDs as a rule of thumb. I only engage DDs when I know, that I'll win.

~Hunter

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26 minutes ago, Hunter_Steel said:

I only engage DDs when I know, that I'll win.

And that applies to all DDs, not just IJN. 1v1 I rarely die to enemy dds, it is always planes or focus fire from island camping he spammers that gets me.

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2 hours ago, Jakob_Knight said:

 

To be fair, any IJN DD captain who isn't running with RPF at this point is probably very new to them.

I run my Asashio without it -  heck I run every DD without it.   I've got better things to do with those captain points. 

My approach

Assume they are out there where you don't want them to be if you can't see them

Assume they are shooting at you once you are spotted

 

Saves you 5 captain points right there.

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1 hour ago, Capt_Ahab1776 said:

 You was correct in your assessment of not needing to be in the cap under those circumstances. I also know what its like being in a DD and appreciating a CV to drop fighter coverage over you ESPECIALLY if you are in a DD that has no smoke.

Just a note here - when in my smokeless Euro DD, I routinely tell CV's not to drop fighter coverage over me at the beginning of the game

Why?

  1.  I'd rather whack a clueless CV with my AA early  so they don't come back at me the rest of the game
  2.  Dropping fighters before I've been seen over where I am going to be is like being soft radared - Red all know where I am/going - I expect to be doding blind torps when a CV does this "favour" for me
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I had more or less the same experience with a CV driver a few days ago.

I was down to about 700 hp and he wanted me to go cap, even when there was a red DD in or around the cap. I not-so-politely told him to do it himself.

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Most players just see their own point of view, wihtout realising what other ships have to deal with. This happens to all ships, though probably more with DDs. So many times im playing a DD and some guys keep saying in chat "DD get the cap", what they dont realize is that sometimes there is a radar cruiser, CV, another DD that outspots and/or outguns you preventing you from getting the cap. 

 

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It isn't if I'll try to cap, it's WHEN I'll try to cap.

I'm probably not rushing a cap if the radar cruisers haven't been spotted. 

I'm not rushing a cap, if I can get to the flanks and spot for the team, in the opening moments of the game.

I'm not rushing a cap with rocket planes nearby.

 

It isn't just CV players. I had a BB player complaining that I wasn't sitting in a cap behind an island. As I pointed out, as the only DD on that flank, if I did that, he'd complain that I wasn't spotting for him. 

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