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DuckyShot

WG should rework other mandatory skills.

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IFHE was reworked and some light cruisers and destroyers nerfed into the marianas trench because WG did not like that the IFHE skill was too mandatory for light cruisers.

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The skill gave a sizable boost without a correspondingly significant penalty, which made it almost mandatory.

So lets look at mandatory skills, shall we?

What is a mandatory skill? A mandatory skill is a skill that is taken by the vast majority of a class of ship in this game. When I first started playing, they removed a skill that let you know whether you were detected or not, they baked it into the game because it was so powerful that everyone was using it.

The list of likely mandatory skills is as follows:

Concealment Expert. This skill is used by the vast majority of destroyers and cruisers and I would assume a large percentage of Battleships as well.

Last Stand: Unless you are literally farming for stats from the second line, most destroyer captains are running this skill.

Survivability Expert: I don't pay as much attention as I should, but I would think this is a skill being run by most destroyers and it seems to be run by a large percentage of battleship players....

Priority Target: This skill is likely used as much and is as useful as the aforementioned detected skill.

Basic Firing Training: A must have for all gun boat DD's.

THere are others that are mandatory to lesser degrees imo, but those seem to be the main ones.

 

So if WG is actually concerned about skills that are mandatory, why is it that only IFHE has so far fallen victim to the nerf bat? And what percentage of players are running the ones I listed in comparison to how many ran IFHE before it was reworked?

 

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I run CE on pretty much everything. Last stand on all of my DDs and Cruisers... and priority target on everything. Rest is a mixed bag but definitely agree with you...

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49 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

IFHE was reworked and some light cruisers and destroyers nerfed into the marianas trench because WG did not like that the IFHE skill was too mandatory for light cruisers.

So lets look at mandatory skills, shall we?

What is a mandatory skill? A mandatory skill is a skill that is taken by the vast majority of a class of ship in this game. When I first started playing, they removed a skill that let you know whether you were detected or not, they baked it into the game because it was so powerful that everyone was using it.

The list of likely mandatory skills is as follows:

Concealment Expert. This skill is used by the vast majority of destroyers and cruisers and I would assume a large percentage of Battleships as well.

Last Stand: Unless you are literally farming for stats from the second line, most destroyer captains are running this skill.

Survivability Expert: I don't pay as much attention as I should, but I would think this is a skill being run by most destroyers and it seems to be run by a large percentage of battleship players....

Priority Target: This skill is likely used as much and is as useful as the aforementioned detected skill.

Basic Firing Training: A must have for all gun boat DD's.

THere are others that are mandatory to lesser degrees imo, but those seem to be the main ones.

 

So if WG is actually concerned about skills that are mandatory, why is it that only IFHE has so far fallen victim to the nerf bat? And what percentage of players are running the ones I listed in comparison to how many ran IFHE before it was reworked?

 

Indeed. 

Also, I imagine pretty much all battleships would be running fire prevention - except the ‘full secondary’ spec ones. 

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7 minutes ago, Dath_1 said:

and priority target on everything.

I run this on ALMOST everything. Which sometimes screws me over when I take out one of the ships where I took PM instead and think I'm detected but ignored until the shells start raining down.

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I agree, if a skill is so useful everyone takes it, then it really removes an flexibility in captain builds, as well as severely punishing players with less skilled captains.

Of the ones you listed, CE is the only universally useful skill though. I suggested just baking the CE buff and the module buff into every ship, and then removing CE and the module and replace them with something else. That way concealment still works with gun and torp ranges, but there's actually options in captain builds. In order for non-CE builds to be workable the entire game meta would have to change, and that is not easy, if it's even possible at this point.

LS on DDs is pretty much required, but almost never used on other ship types (maybe some cruisers if you have the skill points left). But I'm not sure what to do about this. Remove it completely and DDs just lose engines all the time, which doesn't help their survivability. I guess one thing would be to have an incapacitation to engine or steering just penalize the module operation, but that seems a bit overkill. What do you suggest?

SE: Another required for DDs, but not for any other ship type. Guess it wouldn't be bad if WG just buffed all DD HP pools and called it good. Removing it would stop the morons running it on T10 BBs. Then again, a 100K HP Montana is a useful tag for letting you know what kind of player you're up against.

PT: I think the majority use it, but I also know there's more than a few who don't, and don't think it's useful. I also think that the presence of IFA gives an additional viable choice. So I think PT is fine as is.

BFT: I'm not so sure about that. There's a lot of competition for 3 pt skills. SE is first, and there's also SI. Vigilance is also an option. Also some DDs have to consider AFT and RPF as well as CE. While it is useful, I really think there's plenty of variety in builds, and not taking BFT often gives you a significant advantage in another area. Just my opinion, but I actually think BFT is in a good spot in terms of tradeoffs. However, with IFHE being nerfed, options may free up for BFT.

IFHE needed a fix, probably not the one WG gave it (RIP T7 CLs). But IMO CE and LS could stand being looked at. However those wouldn't be nerfs, fixing those would be incorporation into base ships and removal. In which case the question is what would be good captain skills that could be added to the current tree?

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3 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

I run this on ALMOST everything. Which sometimes screws me over when I take out one of the ships where I took PM instead and think I'm detected but ignored until the shells start raining down.

That has happened multiple times to me. "Cool, no one's shooting me, guess I'll keep going this way, can't believe they're being dumb enough to let...BLAP...oh yeah, this is the guy I don't have PT on...

This is pretty much the sole reason I run the mod that tells me what captain skills I have in battle. You don't realize how much you use that indicator until you play without it.

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54 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

Survivability Expert: I don't pay as much attention as I should, but I would think this is a skill being run by most destroyers and it seems to be run by a large percentage of battleship players....

I would agree on last stand for DDs and CE for almost all others (especially DDs) as must haves but not that many of my DDs take SE, certainly not on the first pass. 

PT is kind of must unless you don't take it on any of your ships. Not remembering that the ship your driving doesn't have it is not good. 

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The skill gave a sizable boost without a correspondingly significant penalty, which made it almost mandatory.

As you have indicated this statement is contradictory to how the other skills in game that are 'mandatory' are treated (there was a time that SA was deemed mandatory, so they actually gave it to everyone lol).

 

1. The skill gave a sizable boost: I guess the question is, in what area did it gave a sizeable boost and whether WG believed this was a good thing.

2. without a correspondingly significant penalty: The area that it gave a boost, far outweighed any penalty to the ship (WG believed the balance was wrong).

3. which made it almost mandatory: The benefit the skill gave, made it well worth the points - to pick something else would likely have been a waste of points.

4. So how did they change IFHE? They reduced its Alpha damage and greatly nerfed the fire chance.

 

So as many of the ships that used IFHE skill, are probably still using it - the effect is a nerf to fire and Alpha damage for those ships. So the truth is WG wanted to nerf the damage and fire ability of a number of ships and used the IFHE 'Global change' in order to include a number of Premium ships that fall within that spectrum.

 

So the real question is: what 'barrier' did those ships cross with their 30% extra pen and fire damage - what ship did they damage, but don't so much now - due to the 'fix'?

Answer that question and you have the real reason WG changed IFHE. :Smile_honoring:

Edited by _WaveRider_

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Well if they replace mandatory skills with new ones won't there always be a skill that we almost all use that will then be considered mandatory too . We would probable end up just replacing one for another .

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Of course CE is supposed to be the Holy Grail you are striving for  that makes makes getting a 10pt captain such a milestone. Probably 90% of the ships/captains will take that skill as soon as they can.

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41 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

Which sometimes screws me over when I take out one of the ships where I took PM instead and think I'm detected but ignored until the shells start raining down.

Exactly, typically happens when I accidentally drop the wrong Capt in a ship.

That said, I think they did a good job trying to address this required skill and at least give everyone the sighted icon.

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12 minutes ago, Warped_1 said:

Exactly, typically happens when I accidentally drop the wrong Capt in a ship.

That said, I think they did a good job trying to address this required skill and at least give everyone the sighted icon.

Yeah I got to be careful with some of the ships I have specced for comp. I typically don't take PT for those ships.

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56 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

Of the ones you listed, CE is the only universally useful skill though.

Yeah, I realize that the majority of those are not universally mandatory, but neither was IFHE. It was mandatory for light cruisers, half of one type of ship in the game and they labelled it as mandatory and reworked it. So I took the same approach when looking at the other skills.

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They could easily delete 2 skills per tier with no real impact if they bake last stand and priority target into all ships. I would be cool if they also moved the commander level cap down a bit as well to compensate, maybe to 15 (a decently round number unlike 19).

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Probably because if they bake a bunch of skills into ships, then whatever they choose to replace it with is going to be the next "mandatory".

Like you said, there's a long list of "mandatory" builds, to the point that each ship, class, and nation all has its own "mandatory" build, that you'd be foolish not to use, as all other skills are far less useful or impactful by a long shot.

So even if htey were to bake all of these mandatory builds into each ship class.. Whatever skills they then chose to replace them with would then be the next mandatory skills..

 

 

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Priority Target is such a silly idea. How could you possibly know if other ships are targeting you?

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3 hours ago, Ducky_shot said:

IFHE was reworked and some light cruisers and destroyers nerfed into the marianas trench because WG did not like that the IFHE skill was too mandatory for light cruisers.

So lets look at mandatory skills, shall we?

What is a mandatory skill? A mandatory skill is a skill that is taken by the vast majority of a class of ship in this game. When I first started playing, they removed a skill that let you know whether you were detected or not, they baked it into the game because it was so powerful that everyone was using it.

The list of likely mandatory skills is as follows:

Concealment Expert. This skill is used by the vast majority of destroyers and cruisers and I would assume a large percentage of Battleships as well.

Last Stand: Unless you are literally farming for stats from the second line, most destroyer captains are running this skill.

Survivability Expert: I don't pay as much attention as I should, but I would think this is a skill being run by most destroyers and it seems to be run by a large percentage of battleship players....

Priority Target: This skill is likely used as much and is as useful as the aforementioned detected skill. 

Basic Firing Training: A must have for all gun boat DD's.

THere are others that are mandatory to lesser degrees imo, but those seem to be the main ones.

 

So if WG is actually concerned about skills that are mandatory, why is it that only IFHE has so far fallen victim to the nerf bat? And what percentage of players are running the ones I listed in comparison to how many ran IFHE before it was reworked?

 

Priority Target needs to be removed from the game, it was the worst thing they ever added. I wish i could banish it to the realms of hell where it belongs.

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Be careful what you ask for.

Probably better to leave the skills alone rather than have them be the next HE/armor revamp.

 

(As for IFHE... I had it on one ship before the change, and I have it on one ship after the change... I never needed it.)

 

Edited by KilljoyCutter

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7 minutes ago, SidTheBlade said:

Priority Target is such a silly idea. How could you possibly know if other ships are targeting you?

And the mechanism that tells you you are spotted?

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21 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

And the mechanism that tells you you are spotted?

Yes. Things like this are just silly. They make the game seem very ..... cheap. Slapped together. Made by committees of children.

 

 

 

 

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if they remove pt then remove the mini map showing all spotted ships to the whole team.. either that or remove all the islands...

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, SidTheBlade said:

Yes. Things like this are just silly. They make the game seem very ..... cheap. Slapped together. Made by committees of children.

 

 

 

 

Priority Target also made the skill that tells you of incoming fire completely useless. In the old days people use to take it because it could save your life, priority target replaced it because who needs to know if you have incoming fire when you know 4-6 people are aiming at you, do the math.....

 

Like I said it was the point where wargaming decided we're all children and its been training wheels every since. We would have training wheel depth charges if wargaming had its way. We can't be trusted to manage our own AA, dogfight, they might as well just make auto firing consumables. 

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3 minutes ago, Slumlord_Dasboot said:



Like I said it was the point where wargaming decided we're all children and its been training wheels every since. We would have training wheel depth charges if wargaming had its way. We can't be trusted to manage our own AA, dogfight, they might as well just make auto firing consumables. 

Looking right at you CVs....

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11 minutes ago, SKurj said:

if they remove pt then remove the mini map showing all spotted ships to the whole team.. either that or remove all the islands...

 

 

 

 

Why, the people who need PT don't look at the mini-map to begin with. The entire reason it was added into the game was to hold the hands of the cruiser players who always pushed up until they were spotted and then got broadside deleted at the start of the match every game. This use to be a reoccurring event when the game first released. And then the BB players who can't bother to change course to avoid DD torps without it.

 

I would make rather go back and play the original game then the game we have now. The hand holding has not made the game better, it has not made matches more competitive. At least in the old days I could always count on deleting at least one ship with an opening salvo who takes my entire load because he cant correct course.

Edited by Slumlord_Dasboot

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dont forget superintendent, the go to skill for every ship with a good consumable

 

to be fair big part of the problem is that there are few real choices, as a battleship what would you choose?

manual sec / IFHE: only usefull for secondary builds and those builds are nothing but a floating meme

AFT / radio location: situational 

sight estabilization/massive AA: ughh what is this...

fire prevention/ CE: both extremely usefull 

 

now choose 2 :Smile_facepalm: 

 

diferent story would be if:

CE: 20 to concealment of ships and planes, -25% to main guns and torpedos range, PLanes have -20% speed

sight estabilization: olso added accuracy to main guns

AFT: add the old +20% AA range, olso add 10% increaced damage with planes

massive AA: change it to "enemy planes take and extra 7*tier aura damage per second during sector reinforcement" 

manual sec: add "let you switch control between main and secondary guns"

IFHE: add reduce fuse duration for AP, AP deals 20% less damage.

Edited by pepe_trueno

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