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gjflanker

AP or HE for BBs vs Cruisers?

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I've noticed lately that it seem I get far fewer citadels as a BB using AP vs cruisers, especially the ones with thinner armor, and almost always get overpens, not even pens.  If I use HE, I can consistently get decent damage and even the odd citadel here and there.  Is it me, i.e. my aiming that is off, or is it legit that HE may be a better choice these days due to changes in-game mechanics.

Thanks for your thoughts.

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AP should be used the majority of the time as most battleship can overmatch the entirety of cruisers, some situations like 380mm battleships,borgape,bismark,alsace and a few others cannot over match 27mm there fore with most tier 10 cruisers having 27mm nose you cannot get reliable ap damage when they angle so h.e would be a better option.

the russian cruisers stalin/moskva (im not sure what the armour layout for the future cruisers are) but the current ones have 50mm icebreakers on them which is a 50mm plate that cannot be overmatched by anything in the game currently (most likely a russian destroyer will come out with 600mm guns soon though TM) so ap full pens at range are very unrealistic on a nose in stalin/moskva and h.e is a far more consistent damage dealer.

i like to sling h.e at the very start of a match at very long ranges as you can farm an easy 30k+ in fires immediately and ap would not be very impactful at that range unless an oblivious cruiser wants to straight line.

dont expect full pens or citadels on cruisers in the current state of the game it seems there is a shield to protect cruisers that will turn broadside right infront of you so you cannot punish them and just get overpens. Smolensk exists too having no armour meaning it cannot be hurt in close range, BB guns have too much power and will just overpen with ap which is probably one of the dumbest things ive seen so far.

TLDR just use h.e only its consistent damage. 

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Agree w the previous poster, just to add a bit... AP from BBs at just about everything for me.  If it is a firestarter BB like the Nelson or Dunkerque, then it is probably only about 25% AP.  Certain BBs do pretty well at bow tankers, Roma comes to mind, and even the Repub seem to hit pretty good with a citadel every now and then.  I may change to HE in the Repub, but cannot think of the last time I used HE in the Roma, those HVAP shells do some good work.  I almost always start with AP in a BB at start of the match, which may differ from many BB players as I will take that long range plunging citadel over a fire.  Most enemies will put that fire out, and it is not a sure thing your going to hit the target again, and then start a fire, we are talking long range here...but hit that broadside enemy with AP and get a citadel, and that is some real damage and eats up a heal.  

HE from the Conqueror or Thunderer, is probably the best way to go, though I do not own Thunderer.  The Conq can get some crazy amount of damage with just the HE, and fires are a bonus.  Otherwise I am about using AP almost all the time.  Even KGV I use AP almost exclusively...I may switch to HE for a round or two on a bow tanker, but even KGV AP can hurt most CAs....remember fires do less damage (in seconds) to regular CAs than a super CA or a BB.

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1 minute ago, Morpheous said:

Agree w the previous poster, just to add a bit... AP from BBs at just about everything for me.  If it is a firestarter BB like the Nelson or Dunkerque, then it is probably only about 25% AP.  Certain BBs do pretty well at bow tankers, Roma comes to mind, and even the Repub seem to hit pretty good with a citadel every now and then.  I may change to HE in the Repub, but cannot think of the last time I used HE in the Roma, those HVAP shells do some good work.  I almost always start with AP in a BB at start of the match, which may differ from many BB players as I will take that long range plunging citadel over a fire.  Most enemies will put that fire out, and it is not a sure thing your going to hit the target again, and then start a fire, we are talking long range here...but hit that broadside enemy with AP and get a citadel, and that is some real damage and eats up a heal.  

HE from the Conqueror or Thunderer, is probably the best way to go, though I do not own Thunderer.  The Conq can get some crazy amount of damage with just the HE, and fires are a bonus.  Otherwise I am about using AP almost all the time.  Even KGV I use AP almost exclusively...I may switch to HE for a round or two on a bow tanker, but even KGV AP can hurt most CAs....remember fires do less damage (in seconds) to regular CAs than a super CA or a BB.

the republique h.e is a monster! it is very powerful at longer ranges where AP is unlikely to be impactful and has a very good fire chance.

c2c9d9b9bfda8694f53be30f5d6a0b2d.png

im currently averaging 144k average damage in my repub just by alternating between h.e and ap, by far the best tier 10 BB

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2 minutes ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

the republique h.e is a monster! it is very powerful at longer ranges where AP is unlikely to be impactful and has a very good fire chance.

c2c9d9b9bfda8694f53be30f5d6a0b2d.png

im currently averaging 144k average damage in my repub just by alternating between h.e and ap, by far the best tier 10 BB

Agree on the best T10 BB...I am a Repub man!  Perhaps i should use a bit more HE as I am only avg 103k :)

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Just now, Morpheous said:

Agree on the best T10 BB...I am a Repub man!  Perhaps i should use a bit more HE as I am only avg 103k :)

trust me my guy, the h.e is very strong! you can get so much damage at the very start of the game by sniping enemy bb with h.e, i normally run expert loader on my repub too incase i do see an opportunity to use ap.

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Use the right shell for the right situation.

BB AP against Cruisers, unless your BB can get bounced by specific Cruisers' armor, i.e. High Tier German & USN CAs have 27mm bows which can bounce 381mm or smaller AP shells, or a Moskva trolling you with bow camping, using the 50mm deck armor & 50mm icebreaker bow.

Or fire what you have off then switch shells for the next salvo.

Another alternative is to fire your current shells at a more profitable target for your current shells, and then go back to your original with the next salvo firing the right shells.

 

Outside those specific cases, you should be slinging BB AP at Cruisers.  That's how you get the home run hits against them.

 

As a Cruiser Main, I will happily eat half a dozen Conqueror 419mm Mega HE Shells against my Cruiser than roll the dice against an incoming salvo of Montana 406mm AP.  As much as RN BB HE will hurt, it will not delete my Cruiser, whereas a good BB AP salvo has that chance to rip huge amount of HP away or send me back to port.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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37 minutes ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

trust me my guy, the h.e is very strong! you can get so much damage at the very start of the game by sniping enemy bb with h.e, i normally run expert loader on my repub too incase i do see an opportunity to use ap.

I do this too. First load is always HE and look to farm fire dmg off a bb with a salvo at long range. I have EL on all my bb capt so if I need to switch I can. On the Monty I use HE the first several rounds as I try to farm dmg early and with the EL of the special capt I can change in 7.5 s.

I will say BB HE recks Smolis instead of over penning. Other than that AP on cruisers unless a Moscva/ Stali is bow in.

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56 minutes ago, Morpheous said:

Agree w the previous poster, just to add a bit... AP from BBs at just about everything for me. 

I'm really liking Georgia and Iowa with Halsey.

6-second swap comes in handy when DDs pop up.

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1 hour ago, gjflanker said:

I've noticed lately that it seem I get far fewer citadels as a BB using AP vs cruisers, especially the ones with thinner armor, and almost always get overpens, not even pens.  If I use HE, I can consistently get decent damage and even the odd citadel here and there.  Is it me, i.e. my aiming that is off, or is it legit that HE may be a better choice these days due to changes in-game mechanics.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I tend to load HE to start fires and do reliable damage wherever the projectile hits a Cruiser.

If I load AP in a BB, it is because I anticipate having an opportunity for a shot into the broadside of a cruiser or battleship.  

Since HE won't over-penetrate DD's (which show up at the darnedest of times, eh?), then I think it makes sense to have it ready as a "default".

Others may feel differently, and may point out exceptions that have to do with specific situations and/or ships.

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1 hour ago, gjflanker said:

I've noticed lately that it seem I get far fewer citadels as a BB using AP vs cruisers, especially the ones with thinner armor, and almost always get overpens, not even pens.  If I use HE, I can consistently get decent damage and even the odd citadel here and there.  Is it me, i.e. my aiming that is off, or is it legit that HE may be a better choice these days due to changes in-game mechanics.

Thanks for your thoughts.

It's a fine line between citadel and overpen. Adjust your aim slightly if you miss the citadel on a broadside cruiser. Also, many cruisers are easy to citadel through the bow with BB AP.

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