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Lady_Athena

Subs will be a good addition to the trinity of ships

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They actually seem pretty balanced... Yea I've seen Flamu's and others videos on it.. but honestly, playing them.. It's not nearly as bad as they make it out to be. (its easy to make anything look broken when fighting a team 3/4ths full of bots, and when other people are testing and not playing as they normally would). People are taking wayyy to much out of those videos.

 

From my experience submarines have added a ton of good to the game.

 

* Takes alot of pressure off of DD's. DD's no longer have to try to contest caps as much as before. submarines can now do this more safely (especially if a DD drops smoke for it, then bails). This also has the added bonus of freeing up DD's to try to skirt the edge of the map at the start of the game, or avoid the CV's. taking CV pressure off of DD's as well.

 

* Adds a ship class which adds in good teamwork. The better you support your submarine, the better your team does. No other ship class adds this much of a benefit (Not even CV's which are only glorified spotters now). Supporting the submarine as it does what they did historically, is a good "you rub my back, I'll rub yours" friendship between the sub and other classes.

 

Just two examples though there are more.

 

People are either saying how OP they are, or how boring they are too play.. But nobody is talking about the new dynamics of team play they'll add either. (The only real players that have any right to complain are BB's)

 

 

 

 

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People on the forums here have a constant 'The sky is falling!" mentality.  Anything new or different tends to send them into screaming hysterics.  It makes it really,  REALLY hard to marshal the forces when something really does need to be addressed.  Boy who cried wolf and all.

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Personally I'm Curious what the Tech trees will look like for them.
And I pray WG doesn't mess up the German Sub names with "U-124" instead of "Type XIC" Like they seem to want to do. 

Save Historical ship names like U-96, U-124, U-126, Etc for Premiums. 

 

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1 hour ago, Lady_Athena said:

They actually seem pretty balanced... Yea I've seen Flamu's and others videos on it.. but honestly, playing them.. It's not nearly as bad as they make it out to be. (its easy to make anything look broken when fighting a team 3/4ths full of bots, and when other people are testing and not playing as they normally would). People are taking wayyy to much out of those videos.

 

From my experience submarines have added a ton of good to the game.

 

* Takes alot of pressure off of DD's. DD's no longer have to try to contest caps as much as before. submarines can now do this more safely (especially if a DD drops smoke for it, then bails). This also has the added bonus of freeing up DD's to try to skirt the edge of the map at the start of the game, or avoid the CV's. taking CV pressure off of DD's as well.

 

* Adds a ship class which adds in good teamwork. The better you support your submarine, the better your team does. No other ship class adds this much of a benefit (Not even CV's which are only glorified spotters now). Supporting the submarine as it does what they did historically, is a good "you rub my back, I'll rub yours" friendship between the sub and other classes.

 

Just two examples though there are more.

 

People are either saying how OP they are, or how boring they are too play.. But nobody is talking about the new dynamics of team play they'll add either. (The only real players that have any right to complain are BB's)

 

 

 

 

Thats an interesting analysis. Lets hope youre right....

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Torpedoes that can citadel a BB (or any other ship) with a bow shot, and ignoring the anti protection protection?

Torps  that can be fired at any depth?

Ships can be pinged but the sub stays invisible?

Sub that can travel at 20-25 kts on the underwater?

Graphics are great, but "game play"? Why even  other with DD's any more?....The smoke consumable is now utterly useless.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Seawolf148
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13 minutes ago, Seawolf148 said:

Torpedoes that can citadel a BB (or any other ship) with a bow shot, and ignoring the anti protection protection?

Torps  that can be fired at any depth?

Ships can be pinged but the sub stays invisible?

Sub that can travel at 20-25 kts on the underwater?

Graphics are great, but "game play"? Why even  other with DD's any more?....

 

1. torps can be fired at any depth, good luck hitting any ship within a couple km's as they will not be able to home on them, even if u can get a lock.

2. yes, i didn't expect this one either

3. you haven't played them obviously the fastest sub (RU of course) does 16.6 kn at max speed submerged and can be detected at that speed

4. dd's obsolete? i thought they had too much to do?

Subs have issues... still work needed to balance them...  Flamu's video shows some of those issues.. 

porpoising to avoid damage is a big one, and coming up with counters for cv's and bb's (and hvy cruisers)

 

 

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2 hours ago, Lady_Athena said:

They actually seem pretty balanced... Yea I've seen Flamu's and others videos on it.. but honestly, playing them.. It's not nearly as bad as they make it out to be. (its easy to make anything look broken when fighting a team 3/4ths full of bots, and when other people are testing and not playing as they normally would). People are taking wayyy to much out of those videos.

 

From my experience submarines have added a ton of good to the game.

 

* Takes alot of pressure off of DD's. DD's no longer have to try to contest caps as much as before. submarines can now do this more safely (especially if a DD drops smoke for it, then bails). This also has the added bonus of freeing up DD's to try to skirt the edge of the map at the start of the game, or avoid the CV's. taking CV pressure off of DD's as well.

 

* Adds a ship class which adds in good teamwork. The better you support your submarine, the better your team does. No other ship class adds this much of a benefit (Not even CV's which are only glorified spotters now). Supporting the submarine as it does what they did historically, is a good "you rub my back, I'll rub yours" friendship between the sub and other classes.

 

Just two examples though there are more.

 

People are either saying how OP they are, or how boring they are too play.. But nobody is talking about the new dynamics of team play they'll add either. (The only real players that have any right to complain are BB's)

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Palladia said:

People on the forums here have a constant 'The sky is falling!" mentality.  Anything new or different tends to send them into screaming hysterics.  It makes it really,  REALLY hard to marshal the forces when something really does need to be addressed.  Boy who cried wolf and all.

 

This.

 

Edited by Mr_Secondaries

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15 minutes ago, SKurj said:

1. torps can be fired at any depth, good luck hitting any ship within a couple km's as they will not be able to home on them, even if u can get a lock.

2. yes, i didn't expect this one either

3. you haven't played them obviously the fastest sub (RU of course) does 16.6 kn at max speed submerged and can be detected at that speed

4. dd's obsolete? i thought they had too much to do?

Subs have issues... still work needed to balance them...  Flamu's video shows some of those issues.. 

porpoising to avoid damage is a big one, and coming up with counters for cv's and bb's (and hvy cruisers)

 

 

Which modeling did wow's base the subs on, the german type VIIC.. max underwater speed, 7.5 kts. How about 20-25 kts underwater until a ship is spotted?  But seriously, the second ping ignores anti torp protection? Or a sub that pings a ship, remains invisible to the ship? I do not have to play the submarine in order see glaring  errors. I don't mind subs, but what they are doing is way over the top. I hope wow's listens and makes changes. But they didn;t listen when they ruined CV;s.

 

Add to that these very accurate homing torps... It's a bit much

Edited by Seawolf148
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12 minutes ago, Seawolf148 said:

Which modeling did wow's base the subs on, the german type VIIC.. max underwater speed, 7.5 kts. How about 20-25 kts underwater until a ship is spotted?  But seriously, the second ping ignores anti torp protection? Or a sub that pings a ship, remains invisible to the ship? I do not have to play the submarine in order see glaring  errors. I don't mind subs, but what they are doing is way over the top. I hope wow's listens and makes changes. But they didn;t listen when they ruined CV;s.

which planet did wow's base the vision mechanics on, check the reality card at the door.  Pinging is not easy but it will get easiser.  no sub can go 20-25knots submerged..  they don't need to.. the spotting range is such that they can go at full speed surfaced then dive closer to the target.  They are still slower than almost any ship at tier even surfaced, (some slow BB's excepted)

 

and i wasn't disagreeing with some of your points, I don't like the way you can cit anything from headon with homing torps, you wanna sail broadside to them then i am fine with it.

 

Again.. I have played the subs none go 20kn+ submerged

 

I played 11 games i think yesterday... sank 3 player subs and helped finish off a bot bb...  that's it...  may have survived 2 or 3 of those...

 

You should play them before commenting...

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2 hours ago, Lady_Athena said:

They actually seem pretty balanced... Yea I've seen Flamu's and others videos on it.. but honestly, playing them.. It's not nearly as bad as they make it out to be. (its easy to make anything look broken when fighting a team 3/4ths full of bots, and when other people are testing and not playing as they normally would). People are taking wayyy to much out of those videos.

 

From my experience submarines have added a ton of good to the game.

 

* Takes alot of pressure off of DD's. DD's no longer have to try to contest caps as much as before. submarines can now do this more safely (especially if a DD drops smoke for it, then bails). This also has the added bonus of freeing up DD's to try to skirt the edge of the map at the start of the game, or avoid the CV's. taking CV pressure off of DD's as well.

 

* Adds a ship class which adds in good teamwork. The better you support your submarine, the better your team does. No other ship class adds this much of a benefit (Not even CV's which are only glorified spotters now). Supporting the submarine as it does what they did historically, is a good "you rub my back, I'll rub yours" friendship between the sub and other classes.

 

Just two examples though there are more.

 

People are either saying how OP they are, or how boring they are too play.. But nobody is talking about the new dynamics of team play they'll add either. (The only real players that have any right to complain are BB's)

 

 

 

 

 

21aqbc.jpg

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19 minutes ago, SKurj said:

which planet did wow's base the vision mechanics on, check the reality card at the door.  Pinging is not easy but it will get easiser.  no sub can go 20-25knots submerged..  they don't need to.. the spotting range is such that they can go at full speed surfaced then dive closer to the target.  They are still slower than almost any ship at tier even surfaced, (some slow BB's excepted)

 

and i wasn't disagreeing with some of your points, I don't like the way you can cit anything from headon with homing torps, you wanna sail broadside to them then i am fine with it.

 

Again.. I have played the subs none go 20kn+ submerged

 

You should play them before commenting...

Just watch the lasted test 3 that some have posted, like Flamu. Subs are out spotting DD's. Even he says that DD's are adversely affected and he doesn'ty see how subs can be properly incorporated. I will take his experience over yours. The pinging is ridiculous.

 

 

Edited by Seawolf148
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14 minutes ago, Seawolf148 said:

Just watch the lasted test 3 that some have posted, like Flamu. Subs are out spotting DD's. Even he says that DD's are adversely affected and he doesn'ty see how subs can be properly incorporated. I will take his experience over yours. The pinging is ridiculous.

 

 

 

play them this is NOT test 3... you still have this notion they go 20+ kn submerged and even Flamu didn't show that....

 

outspotting dd's  why not? dd captains are complaining they have too much to do already

 

yes there are issues, that is why we are testing, and I agree with some of flamu's concerns and I don't know how they will handle them.

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3 minutes ago, SKurj said:

 

play them this is NOT test 3... you still have this notion they go 20+ kn submerged and even Flamu didn't show that....

 

outspotting dd's  why not? dd captains are complaining they have too much to do already

 

yes there are issues, that is why we are testing, and I agree with some of flamu's concerns and I don't know how they will handle them.

Here's a review from March ....Note the submerged sub going 20+kts? You should play it again. I understand that going 7.5kt underwater it would take forever to get into a battle, but there is a point when going 20+kts underwater gets silly. I want subs. Just lets not get ridiculous about it.

 

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9 minutes ago, Seawolf148 said:

Here's a review from March ....Note the submerged sub going 20+kts? You should play it again. I understand that going 7.5kt underwater it would take forever to get into a battle, but there is a point when going 20+kts underwater gets silly. I want subs. Just lets not get ridiculous about it.

 

I am playing it now on the PUBLIC TEST SERVER you can see for yourself it has been changed you cannot go that fast underwater.... please play them and don't look at old news...  This is the fastest sub in the game ...

Ji4pXJY.png

 

https://worldofwarships.com/en/content/pt-guide/

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7 minutes ago, SKurj said:

I am playing it now on the PUBLIC TEST SERVER you can see for yourself it has been changed you cannot go that fast underwater.... please play them and don't look at old news...  This is the fastest sub in the game ...

Ji4pXJY.png

 

https://worldofwarships.com/en/content/pt-guide/

OK. I was about 4-5 kts off. Hazzah.....And that's Russian sub. But lets account for subs out spotting DD's;   or hominh torps that can citadel a ships almost every time, even a bow shot.

Edited by Seawolf148

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1 minute ago, Seawolf148 said:

OK. I was about 4-5 kts off. Hazzah.....

and if you watched Flamu's video of the current test..

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4 minutes ago, Seawolf148 said:

OK. I was about 4-5 kts off. Hazzah.....And that's Russian sub. But lets account for subs out spotting DD's;   or hominh torps that can citadel a ships almost every time, even a bow shot.

play them... if you get and maintain 2 pings you can, but pings don't last you have to keep refreshing them and they are difficult to aim, more difficult to aim than anything else in the game. 

Its fairly realistic in regards to cits, that's why torps used magnetic detonators the aim was that they would pass under the ship and detonate directly beneath the keel.. without ever coming into contact with the ship itself.

 

outspotting dd's,  can't you already hear the cries of dd's that have too many jobs to do, so why not let subs do the spotting, screen the fleet instead... 

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I watched Flamu video is dead on. How can you have a ship no one can defend against. If released in PvP and players start losing ships without counter the CV problem will seem like nothing. I still do not understand Homing torps Why.

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36 minutes ago, Raven114 said:

I watched Flamu video is dead on. How can you have a ship no one can defend against. If released in PvP and players start losing ships without counter the CV problem will seem like nothing. I still do not understand Homing torps Why.

Homing torps aren't nearly as much of a problem as bypassing torpedo protection.  You turn bow in to try to dodge, and still take 30k damage.

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We don't have a trinity of ships, we have a quaternity....:Smile_trollface:

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2 hours ago, SKurj said:

1. torps can be fired at any depth, good luck hitting any ship within a couple km's as they will not be able to home on them, even if u can get a lock.

2. yes, i didn't expect this one either

3. you haven't played them obviously the fastest sub (RU of course) does 16.6 kn at max speed submerged and can be detected at that speed

4. dd's obsolete? i thought they had too much to do?

Subs have issues... still work needed to balance them...  Flamu's video shows some of those issues.. 

porpoising to avoid damage is a big one, and coming up with counters for cv's and bb's (and hvy cruisers)

Of course there are going to be "issues" because they want to sell another OP dissimilar weapons system !!!!  Update 8.0 all over again and I CAN NOT WAIT.....!!!   It is my intent to make as many players lives as miserable as possible by lurking around unseen and waiting.....  Planes are seen all over the place because they "come from somewhere you can see".  Subs have to be found and that can take a lot of time !  I hope, each game, the full measure of the game clock because I'm looking for one kill a game.....and, only one kill a game......however long that takes or the clock runs out.

You see, this is simple: if our host wants to make money at our expense, that's so very cool......  But, it doesn't mean we have to "make it easy for them...."  So, the anarchy fleet now is being formed and we set sail the moment subs become available for play.......and, I hope you all enjoy 20 minute losses everytime the anarchy division sails because we are playing by the game's rules and will, make every effort to sink one ship every Random match.......no more and especially, game time willing, every match....  Abandon all joy boys, we intend to misbehave.............IAW all rules and conditions of play........  I want to be the toip sub CPT and the last one alive every game.....  So mote it be........  :Smile_izmena:

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Trinity of ships in World of Warships: Submarines, CVs, and Smolensks.

12 minutes ago, CaptainKaitoGhost said:

Homing torps aren't nearly as much of a problem as bypassing torpedo protection.  You turn bow in to try to dodge, and still take 30k damage.

Agreed.

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4 hours ago, Lady_Athena said:

They actually seem pretty balanced... Yea I've seen Flamu's and others videos on it.. but honestly, playing them.. It's not nearly as bad as they make it out to be. (its easy to make anything look broken when fighting a team 3/4ths full of bots, and when other people are testing and not playing as they normally would). People are taking wayyy to much out of those videos.

 

From my experience submarines have added a ton of good to the game.

 

* Takes alot of pressure off of DD's. DD's no longer have to try to contest caps as much as before. submarines can now do this more safely (especially if a DD drops smoke for it, then bails). This also has the added bonus of freeing up DD's to try to skirt the edge of the map at the start of the game, or avoid the CV's. taking CV pressure off of DD's as well.

 

* Adds a ship class which adds in good teamwork. The better you support your submarine, the better your team does. No other ship class adds this much of a benefit (Not even CV's which are only glorified spotters now). Supporting the submarine as it does what they did historically, is a good "you rub my back, I'll rub yours" friendship between the sub and other classes.

 

Just two examples though there are more.

 

People are either saying how OP they are, or how boring they are too play.. But nobody is talking about the new dynamics of team play they'll add either. (The only real players that have any right to complain are BB's)

 

 

 

 

your crazy

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See what's amazing is all this talk about "not defending against them".  Granted, this is PTS with bots to fill in spots, but I actually enjoyed the anti-sub play of the DD's MUCH more than the actual sub play.  Sank plenty of the subs and had fun doing it.  I'm not a DD main but I could become one to run ASW work...

Here's what subs bring that I noticed- CHAOS...  As a DD, I wasn't a primary target due to other DD's and CL's going after subs... while subs made BB's duck and dodge... and subs had to pick their way around the enemy to try and get torps off... only to get spotted pretty quick due to their sonar pings being picked up.   Seriously, the sub battles are utter chaos.  My first Farragut game had me kill 2 subs, torp a cruiser, DD, and BB, and SURVIVE!   

The BIG problem I see is that this is going to force BB"s even further into sitting back and sniping.  There won't be brawling until DD's/CL's have eliminated subs.  I didn't play a BB but it seemed like they spent more time dodging torps... the bot controlled ones just plowed into multiple DD and sub torpedo hits.   

I did not see any sub "dominate" a game... like walk away with 5+ kills and a ton of damage.  So that's a plus.  

Seriously, the ASW play is very enjoyable... which tells me that they could work... depending on how things work on a regular server and how many subs they put into a game.  

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5 minutes ago, DEWEY_96_ said:

See what's amazing is all this talk about "not defending against them".  Granted, this is PTS with bots to fill in spots, but I actually enjoyed the anti-sub play of the DD's MUCH more than the actual sub play.  Sank plenty of the subs and had fun doing it.  I'm not a DD main but I could become one to run ASW work...

Here's what subs bring that I noticed- CHAOS...  As a DD, I wasn't a primary target due to other DD's and CL's going after subs... while subs made BB's duck and dodge... and subs had to pick their way around the enemy to try and get torps off... only to get spotted pretty quick due to their sonar pings being picked up.   Seriously, the sub battles are utter chaos.  My first Farragut game had me kill 2 subs, torp a cruiser, DD, and BB, and SURVIVE!   

The BIG problem I see is that this is going to force BB"s even further into sitting back and sniping.  There won't be brawling until DD's/CL's have eliminated subs.  I didn't play a BB but it seemed like they spent more time dodging torps... the bot controlled ones just plowed into multiple DD and sub torpedo hits.   

I did not see any sub "dominate" a game... like walk away with 5+ kills and a ton of damage.  So that's a plus.  

Seriously, the ASW play is very enjoyable... which tells me that they could work... depending on how things work on a regular server and how many subs they put into a game.  

What happens when you are fighting 12 real players, and they all focus the spotted DD or CL that is playing the ASW mini game? 

People already focus fire on those two ship types as is, once they are the only threat to your teams sub them will be an even higher priority. 

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