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Sumseaman

Well done to WG for subs gradual introduction

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After the outcry from the CV rework being 'hastily' imposed onto live, random play I must say that WG seems to have learned from the experience with a far more cautious implementation when it comes to subs.

If any good comes from this at least it will be the presence of something else for the CV haters to hate on! :Smile_teethhappy:

On a more serious note though well done WG keeping the game flowing with new content. New players will likely be drawn in by this inclusion (I recall reading some articles stating that new players would try the game if subs were included, can't recall the links so don't quote me) and the rest of us will have to reset the compass in regards to our playstyles which is always refreshing.

Keep it up! :cap_like:

Edited by Sumseaman
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yes lets all change our play styles to accompany an atrocious attempt at balancing.

Welcome new players to a wonderful experience first you have to survive the grind to tier 6 through multiple cv per game (an exhilarating experience at that) then once you reach the dizzying heights of tier 6 you can finally branch off to get your own slow mobile! But once you have mastered the art of going negative speeds and simply diving under to avoid any damage received you can remove 3/4 of an equal tiered battleships health in 2 torpedoes! Fun was had by everyone!

Atleast now the new players learn to not waste time playing battleships anymore because they have equal hatred for the cancer from the sky and the cancer from the deep!

 

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14 minutes ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

yes lets all change our play styles to accompany an atrocious attempt at balancing.

Welcome new players to a wonderful experience first you have to survive the grind to tier 6 through multiple cv per game (an exhilarating experience at that) then once you reach the dizzying heights of tier 6 you can finally branch off to get your own slow mobile! But once you have mastered the art of going negative speeds and simply diving under to avoid any damage received you can remove 3/4 of an equal tiered battleships health in 2 torpedoes! Fun was had by everyone!

Atleast now the new players learn to not waste time playing battleships anymore because they have equal hatred for the cancer from the sky and the cancer from the deep!

 

This is assuming subs make it into randoms even close to their current state if at all. Subs will still be in the game. If they remain in their own mode, yes, no one has to alter anything in regards to random/competitive play. Here is to hoping that the live inclusion of subs in their own mode acts as an effective testing tool, more so than the PTS on which the CV rework was done.

Edit: Yes I agree the 'Porpoising' was always going to be a problem so lets see what they do with that...

 

 

Edited by Sumseaman

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37 minutes ago, Sumseaman said:

Well done to WG for subs gradual introduction

Are they just on the PTS right now?

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Just now, Snargfargle said:

Are they just on the PTS right now?

Yeah. In the tier 6 mode that they will be released upon.

Edited by Sumseaman

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Just now, Sumseaman said:

Yeah. In the tier 6 mode that they be released upon.

Thanks, I was looking around the main game and didn't see them.

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1 hour ago, Sumseaman said:

After the outcry from the CV rework being 'hastily' imposed onto live, random play I must say that WG seems to have learned from the experience with a far more cautious implementation when it comes to subs.

If any good comes from this at least it will be the presence of something else for the CV haters to hate on! :Smile_teethhappy:

On a more serious note though well done WG keeping the game flowing with new content. New players will likely be drawn in by this inclusion (I recall reading some articles stating that new players would try the game if subs were included, can't recall the links so don't quote me) and the rest of us will have to reset the compass in regards to our playstyles which is always refreshing.

Keep it up! :cap_like:

Few key points.

1.) Subs are fairly high skill floor in their current iteration on test, and yet their carry potential is quite LOW
2.) CVs are low/no risk and high reward in a game without respawns. They are an antithesis to ANY functioning balance model.

If there is ANY ship type that should be permanently restricted to a separate game mode, it is CVs.

Edited by Varknyn12
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45 minutes ago, Varknyn12 said:

Few key points.

1.) Subs are fairly high skill floor in their current iteration on test, and yet their carry potential is quite LOW
2.) CVs are low/no risk and high reward in a game without respawns. They are an antithesis to ANY functioning balance model.

If there is ANY ship type that should be permanently restricted to a separate game mode, it is CVs.

As long as they have homing weapons skill floor is moot. No ship class in the game, premium or not, should have any homing weapons at all in PVP. Aim and deal with RNG dispersion the same as everyone else has to.

Edited by Vekta408

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33 minutes ago, Vekta408 said:

As long as they have homing weapons skill floor is moot. No ship class in the game, premium or not, should have any homing weapons at all in PVP. Aim and deal with RNG dispersion the same as everyone else has to.

I think successful 'pinging' is where the skill lies. That being said I'm sure further tweaking to this factor is assured. 

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12 minutes ago, Sumseaman said:

I think successful 'pinging' is where the skill lies. That being said I'm sure further tweaking to this factor is assured. 

Homing weapons, of any kind, ping or no ping mechanic are bad. It needs to go. Nothing they add or tweak is justification for giving any ship let alone a single class of ship a weapon that homes in on a target in any degree.

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3 minutes ago, Vekta408 said:

Homing weapons, of any kind, ping or no ping mechanic are bad. It needs to go. Nothing they add or tweak is justification for giving any ship let alone a single class of ship a weapon that homes in on a target in any degree.

They already exist! If I play a Smolensk the second I am spotted I see homing BB shells turn mid air at perpendicular angles straight for my citadel!

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They can gradually keep the sub in their own private corner, either PTS or a PVE mode somewhere for folks to use them on bots.
 

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I am honestly loving the subs.   I feel like it brings a whole new aspect to the game that it really needs.   For the people saying it is OP, well first, you are playing against bots, and it probably won't be this easy if it were to come into live server.  Second, it actually takes skill to land those pings.   Of course the Russian sub is by far the better one and the German one is basically a suicide submarine.   But I actually have to give props to WG for trying to balance this.   A lot of people played a few games and called it OP which isn't enough experience to take into account imo.   I played around 7 hours with a combination of subs and ASW:

 

1. I feel like the consumable for maximum depth needs a nerf.   It is way too strong, were at a certain point, it took 2 dds all 6 consumables of depth charges to get the submarine just to half health.   By the 3rd or 4th consumable, it should of been destroyed.   Some person reported it took around 38 charges to take out the submarine and I was like, "How?" lol

2.  I thing all surface ships needs depth charges.   BBs and CAs have 1 charge at disposal, CLs have 2, and dds have 3.   The reason being is if a submarine submerged, BBs and CAs have absolutely nothing weapons to counter.   Some may say, "OH Kishan, it is not historically accurate blah blah".   Well... it is a game first off, and second, when has the game been historically accurate with all the lines they have?

3.  If you are a submarine proxy spotting a surface ship, your general location should be transmitted and shown as a white bubble on the water.

4.  Remove the "Impossible to hit" notification and change it too, "Impossible to hit with guns".   People see that and are thinking depth charges are also useless. 

5.  I am a split decision on making depth charges automatic.  Dds already have a lot of jobs and this is just one more thing they have to worry about.  I am not sure

6.  Manual Target for Secondary Battery Buff when targeting Submarines.  The dispersion for secondary batteries while using Manual Targeting needs a dispersion buff only applied to when targeting subs.   Reason is BBs are utterly useless against them.  Combined with slow turret traverse, they have no chance and since most BBs fire AP.   Secondaries are their only hope but the dispersion is so bad and subs are small, it is almost useless.  

7.  This one is controversial to a point.  A lot of people on discord like this idea when I proposed it.   Torpedoes fired underwater cannot home in on surface ships.  This is what makes the subs a bit too strong imo.   Torpedoes fired underwater can only home in on hostile submarines.  If you were to fire torpedoes underwater, and ping a surface ship, the homing capabilities are ignore and the torpedoes just go straight.  In order to damage surface ships, you need to fire torpedos on the surface but you may ping underwater if you want.    

8.  CVs need ASW depth charge planes.  This will either be a 4th plane or it replaces rocket planes (idk).   These can drop depth charges but the damage is weak so submarines cannot die within the first few minutes of the match.  This will also provide an indirect buff to dds because they won't get hit by rockets has much.  I certainly would be happy as losing 7k in the first minute of the match is no fun.   EDIT: New Idea.   Fighter get depth charges when patroling.  If a submarine gets spotted in the fighter zone, fighters drop charges

 

That is all so far

 

Currently, this biggest problem with submarines is that you need to be right on top of them to really kill them during battle.   idk how to fix this

Edited by kishan99
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44 minutes ago, Vekta408 said:

Homing weapons, of any kind, ping or no ping mechanic are bad. It needs to go. Nothing they add or tweak is justification for giving any ship let alone a single class of ship a weapon that homes in on a target in any degree.

Have you tried them? They're not really that easy to use.

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13 minutes ago, RainbowFartingUnicorn said:

Have you tried them? They're not really that easy to use.

I've been using them, tonight.
Yeah, they're not very easy to use.

Also, under-water distance perception is not user-friendly.

With the co-op battle frenzy play style on the submarine battles, it has been difficult to set-up classic submarine torpedo attacks.
Ships are maneuvering often enough to dodge torpedoes merely by accident.

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1 hour ago, Vekta408 said:

As long as they have homing weapons skill floor is moot. No ship class in the game, premium or not, should have any homing weapons at all in PVP. Aim and deal with RNG dispersion the same as everyone else has to.

except it is not moot, it takes skill to land both pings and even then the homing ability of the torpedoes isn't exactly super powerful.

When it comes to anything remotely broken, homing torps is extremely minuscule to the complete game breaking existence of current CVs

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1 hour ago, Vekta408 said:

Homing weapons, of any kind, ping or no ping mechanic are bad. It needs to go. Nothing they add or tweak is justification for giving any ship let alone a single class of ship a weapon that homes in on a target in any degree.

Barely, you should try them.

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38 minutes ago, RainbowFartingUnicorn said:

Have you tried them? They're not really that easy to use.

 At first.

But with practice it will become easy.

 

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Just now, Taichunger said:

 At first.

But with practice it will become easy.

 

It's fun on PTS where half the teams are bots and it's Tier VI, but I am concerned as a submarine player what high tiers will be like, and also as a DD main. With just Tier VI carriers, it's a lot to keep track of enemy aircraft, surface threats, and hunt submarines. With high-tier aircraft and subs plus radar, DDs at Tier VIII+ will get run ragged. 

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4 minutes ago, RainbowFartingUnicorn said:

It's fun on PTS where half the teams are bots and it's Tier VI, but I am concerned as a submarine player what high tiers will be like, and also as a DD main. With just Tier VI carriers, it's a lot to keep track of enemy aircraft, surface threats, and hunt submarines. With high-tier aircraft and subs plus radar, DDs at Tier VIII+ will get run ragged. 

Maybe they will have a sudden attack of common sense and make sure that aircraft carriers and submarine don't occur in the same game. That would reduce the load on DD drivers And would create a stealth NoCV mode by which players who don't like aircraft carriers could div with a submarine.

 But you know, the devs will never be that rational.

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6 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

Maybe they will have a sudden attack of common sense and make sure that aircraft carriers and submarine don't occur in the same game. That would reduce the load on DD drivers And would create a stealth NoCV mode by which players who don't like aircraft carriers could div with a submarine.

 But you know, the devs will never be that rational.

Actually not a bad idea.

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The sub vs sub is sooooo much better now.

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7 hours ago, Sumseaman said:

After the outcry from the CV rework being 'hastily' imposed onto live, random play I must say that WG seems to have learned from the experience with a far more cautious implementation when it comes to subs.

If any good comes from this at least it will be the presence of something else for the CV haters to hate on! :Smile_teethhappy:

On a more serious note though well done WG keeping the game flowing with new content. New players will likely be drawn in by this inclusion (I recall reading some articles stating that new players would try the game if subs were included, can't recall the links so don't quote me) and the rest of us will have to reset the compass in regards to our playstyles which is always refreshing.

Keep it up! :cap_like:

NEW PLAYERS WANTING TO TRY SUBS WILL NOT LAST 6 MONTHS,  SURFACE SHIP PLAYERS WHOM ARE NEW WILL NOT LAST 1 YR.

anyone left for next summer will be the ones whom invested to much money and time to quit, only when the plug is pulled from the wall will they shuffle on down the internet road of online games, to blindly stumble into another money suck pixel game.

 

panama

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I will change my playstyle when subs come out. I will just hit uninstall.

Only DD and a few hand picked CL can hunt a sub. A sub can perma spot them->especial DD will get focused down, even faster then it is the case at the live server. 

Everyone want DD in their team to hunt the sub, but no one will play a DD. 

People complain about perma spotting from CV, subs will add another level of this. Make it real, subs could only send messages of the enemies position when they were at the surface. 

They removed the Kamikaze DD because it's such a good seal clubber. High stealth, hard hitting torps, fast reload. Hard to counter if there is no CV around or a DD that can run her down. 

So, we have the same problem again. Just with auto homing torps without a counter. When the Germans showed up with their accoustic torpedos, the Allies came with the Foxer and shortly with the Fnafare system to make them mostly useless. 

How about giving DD sub hunter torpedos? Just launch them in the general direction, they will kill the sub by themself? Smaland and Halland had those. What about with systems like Hedgehog? What about the forward sub mortars on Friesland, Smaland and Halland?

Sorry, there will be a number of new players for sure. But there will be a number of long time players leaving or cutting their budget for WoWs. 

WG is up for a fast buck, you can expect that those subs will hit the live server very soon without major changes. They paid for the development of those, and the CV rework (plus a good number of ships added) showed, that they don't care about complains or better solutions made by players. I will have fun till then. 

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