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Master_Chief69

Any ship is OP ( in the right hands)

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Let's all agree to disagree on something.. Any ship regardless of class or nation is over powered in the right players hands.. Does that mean just because OP says so it needs to be nerfed ? You go on you tube and see countless replays of ship after ship doing amazing things. Did you ever stop and ask yourself how many battles did it take that particular day to get that result ? A SKILLED captain can make any ship he plays well appear to be overpowered. Just because OP got owned by a guy that plays a certain ship well by that particular ship does not make that ship overpowered nor does it mean that it needs to be nerfed. Community contributors add to this problem because they don't like a particular class of ship or individual ship they call for nerfs etc. I have an idea let's nerf every boat that has been highlighted on you tube with a better than average result.. and sooner or later this game will be re titled.. Plastic ships shooting paper straws. Carry on !

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18 minutes ago, SKurj said:

no...

not true... 

Care to explain why? I've seen several you tube videos of great players doing exceptionally well in ships usually considered sub-par.

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30 minutes ago, Master_Chief69 said:

Let's all agree to disagree on something.. Any ship regardless of class or nation is over powered in the right players hands.. Does that mean just because OP says so it needs to be nerfed ? You go on you tube and see countless replays of ship after ship doing amazing things. Did you ever stop and ask yourself how many battles did it take that particular day to get that result ? A SKILLED captain can make any ship he plays well appear to be overpowered. Just because OP got owned by a guy that plays a certain ship well by that particular ship does not make that ship overpowered nor does it mean that it needs to be nerfed. Community contributors add to this problem because they don't like a particular class of ship or individual ship they call for nerfs etc. I have an idea let's nerf every boat that has been highlighted on you tube with a better than average result.. and sooner or later this game will be re titled.. Plastic ships shooting paper straws. Carry on !

You are right, any ship can perform well if a talented player is behind it. However that is more of a testament to the player's skill than the quality of the ship, essentially the player is OP not necessarily the ship. 

Ex: If I give a mediocre player a ship that shoots nukes and they get 10 kills, ship is OP. If I give an unicum player a ship that fires toothpicks and they get 10 kills, player is OP.

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47 minutes ago, Master_Chief69 said:

Let's all agree to disagree on something.. Any ship regardless of class or nation is over powered in the right players hands.. Does that mean just because OP says so it needs to be nerfed ? You go on you tube and see countless replays of ship after ship doing amazing things. Did you ever stop and ask yourself how many battles did it take that particular day to get that result ? A SKILLED captain can make any ship he plays well appear to be overpowered. Just because OP got owned by a guy that plays a certain ship well by that particular ship does not make that ship overpowered nor does it mean that it needs to be nerfed. Community contributors add to this problem because they don't like a particular class of ship or individual ship they call for nerfs etc. I have an idea let's nerf every boat that has been highlighted on you tube with a better than average result.. and sooner or later this game will be re titled.. Plastic ships shooting paper straws. Carry on !

Um no...

I dont see anyone excelling in a KryspyKreme or a NY... Or a Kamikaze in a CV match.

Based on this and other examples. Your views of a skill cpt makes "any" ship OP, is fundamentally distorted and wrong.

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Well, different folks have different definitions of "OP", so that's kinda loose here.

What I have said many times is that I'll take a good player in a bottom tier ship over a poor player in a top tier.  The former will almost always outperform the latter.

Can a unicum (or sometimes just a good player on their game) take a low tier ship and perform in an OP manner.  Most certainly. 

This is partly why the two tier delta is fine IMHO.  I'm a good player now, and I really don't have any issues running bottom tier.  I'll find a way to work it.  Not to the same level of most unicums, but enough to contribute in a satisfactory fashion...and sometimes....on those rare occasions...really kick a.   

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29 minutes ago, Soshi_Sone said:

Well, different folks have different definitions of "OP", so that's kinda loose here.

What I have said many times is that I'll take a good player in a bottom tier ship over a poor player in a top tier.  The former will almost always outperform the latter.

Can a unicum (or sometimes just a good player on their game) take a low tier ship and perform in an OP manner.  Most certainly. 

This is partly why the two tier delta is fine IMHO.  I'm a good player now, and I really don't have any issues running bottom tier.  I'll find a way to work it.  Not to the same level of most unicums, but enough to contribute in a satisfactory fashion...and sometimes....on those rare occasions...really kick a.   

When I was a newer player, my first Tier X ship was Yamato.  I completely skipped IX Izumo.  I had no prior experience in Tier IX-X Battleships.  This was long ago.  So long ago that Yamato had a special repair party, Tier IX-X USN BBs had tall Citadels, and the German BB Line, the 1st BB Line introduced since the game launched, had yet to arrive.  In a day and age where Yamato was considered the only true Tier X BB and people insulted Montana that she was really a Tier IX, I found ways to make Yamato look bad :Smile_teethhappy:  I was so awful that my Yamato was often the first ship dead on my team.  I was so bad with her at this time that people on both teams would see me get rekt and say, "What a waste of a great ship."

:Smile_hiding:

It took about 130 Random Battles with her to finally understand playing Tier IX-X BBs, but by that point my stats with Yamato sucked irrevocably hard.  I can still remember the stupid things I did.  I had no idea about the Citadel Cheek, I'd come around island corners looking for a brawl to get blasted to hell and back.  I'd push hard at the start, thinking I was "Billy Bad*ss" with my Yamato and get focused and torpedoed down.  I used to think things would be better if people just followed me in :Smile_teethhappy:

I used to wonder how other Yamato players could hit me reliably at range while I struggled with my own, I used to think people were cheating.  In reality, I just sucked that bad in my aim.  2.1 Sigma and IJN BB dispersion couldn't save the ship in my hands.  Yamato is accurate, it'll generally hit what you're aiming for, but if the user sucks and the aim is bad to begin with, well, Yamato will plant shells where you aim for...

So many more things.  I can remember a bunch of it still and I cringe just how bad I was at the time.

My Yamato suffered so that I could understand how to play Tier IX-X Battleships afterwards.  It was by far the harshest schooling I have ever had in High Tiers. 

 

The experience made me a better player but man did that suck.  I think I had something like 35k Dmg Avg in Yamato for a while.  I remember checking my Yamato stats and saw server averages and was blown by how bad I was doing compared to everyone else.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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There are ships that are legitamately better than the competion. Sure, good players can use mediocre boats well, but they can likely do better in more powerful ships. I get the reasoning behind unicum in a bad ship > potato in a good ship, but it's false attribution to say good player = OP ship.

 

You can do really well in a Pensacola (I did) but that doesn't mean it's a good ship. It has really great guns, but what keeps it from actually being a great ship overall is craparmor, bad detection, and slow turret traverse - it's inflexible, and it heavily depends on not being the center of attention to do it's job. It's difficult to play even if you don't know what you're doing.

 

Smolensk. Sure it also pops like a balloon and eats HE damage everywhere, but it's poorly balanced IMO. It's relatively small amd nimble, has 16 130mm guns with good rof and fire chance, smoke + hydro, troll armor that gives overpens frequently, decent torps, repair. A potato can sit in smoke, spam HE on ships all match, and do decently with just that. You have to be absolutely crapto mess up playing a ship this flexible and forgiving.

But wait, there's more. Remember poor Khaba? Worse than Tashkent in every way except one extra turret. Reason why I don't move up. But if you compare something like khaba to smol, you see that smol has better: HP, rof, shell per salvo, turret traverse, initial shell velocity, range, torps, turn radius, rudder shift, AA, consumable kit. The big kicker (imo as a DD main) is that smolensk is a CL while Khabavorsk is a DD. You don't want a mini-CL taking up a precious DD spot, but a CL that can act as DD-lite is great.

 

I can't buy into the "player makes the ship OP" arguement. You can do really well in a bad ship. You can do really poorly in a good one. But the fact still stands that with equally good players, a person will do better in an OP ship versus on in an underpowered one. A ship that has a very broad skill floor and ceiling is likely too good for game balance. And one with high floors but low ceilings is probably underpowered for the meta. Water is wet.

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Correction, Every ship can do well (In the right hands). Every ship is not OP. The OP designation is more so for ships that do better than average in almost anyone hands and are borderline godly in the right hands. 

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Lets not get this twisted. Anyone can record a bunch of games and only upload the good ones. Has nothing to do with boats or skill. Anyone who thinks they will show you the 20 games that failed hard are naive. 

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Some guys bought and make Roma work well.  But would they positively recommend her to others in good conscience? :Smile_coin:

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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No, a good player can perform well in weak ships, but that same good player is going to perform even better in good ships. 

 

 

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Pick the right tool for the job. Every ship has a play style and a niche in the overall meta. Bad players don't understand this and just name call and blame. People throw out "Russian Bias" and i can honestly tell you its bull crap. I have monster games in ships of all nations. Russian ships are the basic play style of the game. Good for new players. They have a limit on how far they can go as a result. Other nations like the French are capable of sooo much more then any Russian ship but you have to be a good player to do it.

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47 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Um no...

I dont see anyone excelling in a KryspyKreme or a NY... Or a Kamikaze in a CV match.

Based on this and other examples. Your views of a skill cpt makes "any" ship OP, is fundamentally distorted and wrong.

You've clearly never played KryspyKreme with a 19 point Smol Capt :Smile_teethhappy::cap_rambo:

Here's my stats in Krispy and they're not even impressive. There's a few I've seen that put this to shame.

krispykreme.png.3e4344aa373456b54cff443eba47532c.png 

 

To the OP, @Kevik70 nailed it with "Every ship can do well (In the right hands). Every ship is not OP. The OP designation is more so for ships that do better than average in almost anyone hands and are borderline godly in the right hands."

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I would also say that the MM on any given game can also change the relative strengths of weak or OP ships before we even consider the skill floor/ceiling for the ship.

I once was in a game where it dumped the queue and we had 10 BBs, 1 CA, 1 DD per side and I was in my Ashasio.  I Krakened the crap out of that game with impunity.  I was spotted once and nearly 8 BBs from the whole map took a shot at me.

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Have you ever heard of the ship Nino Bixio?

It have no HE, AP have destroyer level of penetration, and SAP penetration is so poor that most cruisers at its tier can shatter them.

It also have no torpedoes, without ramming, it will literally take the ship minutes to sink an AFK.

Did I forget to mention it have 6mm plating all over?

That means a T2 DD can overmatch the ship, yes, an umikaze's AP will go right thru Bixio's bow 

Try playing that.

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58 minutes ago, Soshi_Sone said:

What I have said many times is that I'll take a good player in a bottom tier ship over a poor player in a top tier.  The former will almost always outperform the latter.

This, completely; it's not the ship, it's the Captain.

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26 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Some guys bought and make Roma work well.  But would they positively recommend her to others in good conscience?

     One would hope not. The best thing I can say about the Aroma is that it keeps me from getting another one in a container. :Smile_facepalm:

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If the little advantages didn't matter, then why do even unicums fret over captain skills, run non-economic flags and run mods that make things easier? Because when dealing with players of near equal  or better ability, you seek every advantage to try and come out on top. (at least most players do). Some ships have more  advantages baked in so that that the player base as a whole wins a lot more with that ship. Those ships get the OP moniker. 

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1 hour ago, Imperial_Magnate said:

You are right, any ship can perform well if a talented player is behind it. However that is more of a testament to the player's skill than the quality of the ship, essentially the player is OP not necessarily the ship. 

Ex: If I give a mediocre player a ship that shoots nukes and they get 10 kills, ship is OP. If I give an unicum player a ship that fires toothpicks and they get 10 kills, player is OP.

I would add that a unicum player would be in a better position to determine if a ship is OP because they have a more consistent playstyle than a lesser player (like me) whose play is a bit more random from game to game.

There is a point to be made point that a lesser player like me getting trashed, even repeatedly trashed, by a ship in a game can make it *seem* OP to me but that appearance can be an illusion created by my own positioning mistakes and perhaps less-than-stellar gunnery.

The counterpoint to the counterpoint is some ships simply reek and it can be obvious even to me.

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A good player can change the course of a match in a good ship. That same good player can bring a poor ship to it's full potential, but will struggle to affect the outcome of a match.

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Doing well in a ship doesn't make it OP.  Nearly all of us have had phenomenal matches in ships that are significantly subpar.  That doesn't mean the ship is actually OP, it means that things lined up for it to produce a good match.  Those things are a mix of player decisions, team decisions, enemy decisions and RNG.

OP ships are OP because, over a huge number of matches, they produce average results that are noticeably better than other ships.  Single matches don't tell us anything.

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2 hours ago, Navalpride33 said:

Um no...

I dont see anyone excelling in a KryspyKreme or a NY... Or a Kamikaze in a CV match.

Based on this and other examples. Your views of a skill cpt makes "any" ship OP, is fundamentally distorted and wrong.

I love my kamikaze and still do very well in it and I don't care if CV is in the match. You have to think and play a little different but the CV doesn't automatically kill me and I get no points.

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3 hours ago, JimmyTheRealPirate said:

Care to explain why? I've seen several you tube videos of great players doing exceptionally well in ships usually considered sub-par.

sorry got distracted by a phone call, though looks like the point has been made already :cap_tea:

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4 hours ago, SKurj said:

no...

not true... 

I am sorry to say this but it's not the ship that's OP but player behind it that's OP :Smile_playing:

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