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iamSamoth

New USN ship

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I feel like it's a citadel magnet. I maybe wrong. :)

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DDs don't have citadels!

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23 minutes ago, iamSamoth said:

I feel like it's a citadel magnet. I maybe wrong. :)

That is pretty much true for all modern war ships, they don't have armor they have anti-missile systems.

13 minutes ago, Umikami said:

DDs don't have citadels!

Littoral combat ship

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1 hour ago, BrushWolf said:

Littoral combat ship

Shallow water DD.

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4 hours ago, JohnPJones said:

Not even close 

I beg to differ .....

A quote:

"The concept behind the littoral combat ship, as described by former Secretary of the Navy Gordon R. England, is to "create a small, fast, maneuverable and relatively inexpensive member of the DD (X) family of ships."

So, yeah, I'm pretty much OK with my statement, me and the ex-Secretary of the Navy being so tight and all.

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On 4/15/2020 at 5:16 AM, Umikami said:

I beg to differ .....

A quote:

"The concept behind the littoral combat ship, as described by former Secretary of the Navy Gordon R. England, is to "create a small, fast, maneuverable and relatively inexpensive member of the DD (X) family of ships."

So, yeah, I'm pretty much OK with my statement, me and the ex-Secretary of the Navy being so tight and all.

Well considering they originated from the street fighter program and literally have nothing in common with the roles actually filled by a DDG or an FFG you can be ok with your statement, but it’s still wrong.

 

DDG- frontline combatant and fleet escort

LCS- support craft, generally low risk missions, not a fleet escort.

the FFG(X) is a small DDG. The LCS most certainly is not.

Edited by JohnPJones

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On 4/15/2020 at 8:08 AM, Lonewolfpj said:

Its just a super fancy gunboat :Smile_hiding:

You’re a lot closer than umikami is lol

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1 hour ago, JohnPJones said:

Well considering they originated from the street fighter program and literally have nothing in common with the roles actually filled by a DDG or an FFG you can be ok with your statement, but it’s still wrong.

Well, you can tell the Secretary of the Navy that; I'm OK with it.

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On 4/15/2020 at 6:08 AM, Lonewolfpj said:

Its just a super fancy gunboat :Smile_hiding:

That's pretty much what a DD is.

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4 hours ago, Umikami said:

That's pretty much what a DD is.

No they are much different things.  Watch the movie Sand pebbles then the trailer for Greyhound. 

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2 hours ago, Lonewolfpj said:

No they are much different things.  Watch the movie Sand pebbles then the trailer for Greyhound. 

He’s just mad he’s wrong about what an LCS actually is

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At least it isn't being confused with an LST or an LPD?  

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3 hours ago, Lonewolfpj said:

No they are much different things.  Watch the movie Sand pebbles then the trailer for Greyhound. 

Have seen both; love "The Sand Pebbles"; great movie and Steve McQueen at his finest! One of the movies that should be on everyone's must see list.

ALL boats, and ships, are nothing more than platforms on water with guns. Guns for other ships and boats, guns for planes, guns for subs, and probably, soon, guns for things in orbit. Everything from a PT boat to the Battleship Missouri is just pretty much the same thing just on a larger scale. Doesn't matter what the weapons are, or what they're supposed to destroy, all warships are gunboats, that's their definition.

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On 4/15/2020 at 11:08 PM, Lonewolfpj said:

Its just a super fancy gunboat :Smile_hiding:

 

Doesn't have much of a gun to begin with.  Navy trying to turn them into missile boats.  Currently LCS are more like show the flag FONOP ships and drug interdiction ships.  More like an extended Coast Guard.

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On 4/15/2020 at 12:47 PM, BrushWolf said:

That is pretty much true for all modern war ships, they don't have armor they have anti-missile systems.

Littoral combat ship

 

You can also say, they rely on very low signature radius in WoWs  terms, for their survival.  

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On 4/14/2020 at 10:21 PM, iamSamoth said:

I feel like it's a citadel magnet. I maybe wrong. :)

That depends the radar cross section.

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Not sure on the full science of Radar Cross Section (RCS), but I wonder if the placement of the Naval Strike Missile (NSM) containers/launchers on the bow might have upset the RCS a little (or a lot). I am glad they are upgrading the weapons on the Independence Class LCS's but it just looks out-of-place where they placed the NSM's. I am sure there was a structural, practical, or logistical reason they located them on the bow like such, but it just looks odd to me for some reason. But hey, if it works (and it seems to have), great! :cap_hmm:

USS-Gabrielle-Giffords-is-the-1st-LCS-to-Get-its-Full-Load-of-Next-Gen-NSM-Missiles-2-1024x740.jpg

Edited by Tankerus

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It will increase RCS unfortunately but it seems to be a price the Navy is willing to take.  

 

To reduce RCS with regards to external missile launchers you need to cover them behind a slanted wall.

 

Jhf4yZ1.jpg

 

You see that with the Tuo Chiang corvette pic you posted.

 

This is not the first ship to put antiship missiles on the bow.  The Brits do that all the time with their Type 23 frigates.

 

D279u4l.jpg

 

Why not?  Its close to the ship's center of gravity.

 

With regards to the Independence class, you can put them all the way to the back of the helo deck, like a Tico.   But that may affect the ship's center of gravity, whereas putting them behind the small VLS before the bridge puts the missiles closer to the ship's center of gravity.  

 

YsKZjfT.png

 

 

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Ah I see. Your point about the Ship's Center of Gravity makes sense and the bow mounted launchers on the Type 23 frigate is a good example of  it. The slanted wall seems to be a good way to maintain RCS for non-VLS missile launchers on modern designs as well.

 

 

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A nice video on Independence Class Littoral Combat Ship. It can even complete a visible Figure 8 in the water! Nice ship. Nice music in the video too.

 

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On 1/23/2021 at 2:20 AM, Tankerus said:

Ah I see. Your point about the Ship's Center of Gravity makes sense and the bow mounted launchers on the Type 23 frigate is a good example of  it. The slanted wall seems to be a good way to maintain RCS for non-VLS missile launchers on modern designs as well.

 

 

 

The ship itself has other radar reflective features.  For example, the Phalanx, the SATCOMs, the ship's own radar, various other sensors and EW equipment.

 

You don't need a very high degree of stealth in the water because when the water surface is full of clutter, reflecting stray radio waves as noise.  That hides the ship.  It is for this reason why you don't need tanks and trucks on the ground to have radar reflective stealth features.   Having the antiship missile launchers is a sacrifice to the RCS, but an acceptable one.

 

But I will add that speed is not necessarily a good thing either.  The faster an object goes, the greater the doppler effect, the more it also becomes apparent that something is moving fast over the water.  This effect can be filtered by the radar and negates the surface clutter, as the background RF clutter isn't going to have this doppler as the radio waves reflecting from a moving object.

Edited by Eisennagel

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