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Bluemoon51

Floatplane Cruisers

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With the upcoming introduction of submarines into the game, do people feel there might be a role within the game for the hybrid cruiser-carrier(most notably ships like the IJN Tone class, the Ise class the Swedish Gotland to name but three, in addition to a number of other navies looking into it quite extensively )in an ASW type role, I'm assuming that they would be played like a normal cruiser with additional foatplane consumables perhaps giving a longer charge and more charges to model their greater importance on such ships. Obviously this assumes that foatplanes will be given an ASW role once submarines are introduced into the game. 

Edited by Bluemoon51

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I’ve always expected that hybrids such as the ones you mention could have a recon or strike capability but I do not oppose an ASW. Maybe even being able to decide which role you want to take (like deciding which consumable or upgrade to use).

I actually think that alt-line CVs could be given the ASW role, with a limited surface strike capability.

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Gotland for an entry to the European (Swedish) crusier line.  She spotted the Bismarck.

450px-HMS_Gotland_(cruiser),_1936.jpg

440px-Hawker_Osprey.jpg

Edited by Charon2018
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So here's the plan .... 

Step 1: We talk WG into scrapping Langley at tier 4 and replacing it with some other CV like Bogue or something.

Step 2: We re-introduce Langley at tier 6, not as CV-1 but as AV-3. Yes SEAPLANE TENDER LANGLEY.

US Navy seaplane tender USS Langley (AV-3) is loaded with ...

Step 3. Sell Premium AV-3 Langley to a large group of foaming at the mouth ASW freaks desperate for new ships.

What could possibly go wrong? (Oh, I forgot, WGs in charge. Never mind, scrap the plan!)

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1 hour ago, Bluemoon51 said:

With the upcoming introduction of submarines into the game, do people feel there might be a role within the game for the hybrid cruiser-carrier(most notably ships like the IJN Tone class, the Ise class the Swedish Gotland to name but three, in addition to a number of other navies looking into it quite extensively )in an ASW type role, I'm assuming that they would be played like a normal cruiser with additional foatplane consumables perhaps giving a longer charge and more charges to model their greater importance on such ships. Obviously this assumes that foatplanes will be given an ASW role once submarines are introduced into the game. 

There were float plane tenders and the like but they had to anchor some where sheltered usually to launch their planes.  You probably can get away with side catapult launches but recovery would be the sticking point.  There are BB/CV hybrids that could be played with though as well.  would think this would be a fun thing to try.  Though I'd rather have my CVL and CVE's back for hunting subs and the like.

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5 minutes ago, Umikami said:

So here's the plan .... 

Step 1: We talk WG into scrapping Langley at tier 4 and replacing it with some other CV like Bogue or something.

Step 2: We re-introduce Langley at tier 6, not as CV-1 but as AV-3. Yes SEAPLANE TENDER LANGLEY.

US Navy seaplane tender USS Langley (AV-3) is loaded with ...

I'd play it lol.

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25 minutes ago, Umikami said:

So here's the plan .... 

Step 1: We talk WG into scrapping Langley at tier 4 and replacing it with some other CV like Bogue or something.

Step 2: We re-introduce Langley at tier 6, not as CV-1 but as AV-3. Yes SEAPLANE TENDER LANGLEY.

US Navy seaplane tender USS Langley (AV-3) is loaded with ...

Step 3. Sell Premium AV-3 Langley to a large group of foaming at the mouth ASW freaks desperate for new ships.

What could possibly go wrong? (Oh, I forgot, WGs in charge. Never mind, scrap the plan!)

It wouldn't surprise me if Bogue was reintroduced as a Submarine Killer.

Matter of fact, convoy escorting and being part of Submarine Hunter-Killer teams were among the duties of Bogue-class CVEs.  Hell, the Royal Navy was the main recipient of the class, so an RN Bogue-class killing subs is really on the money for historical purposes.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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7 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

convoy escorting and being part of Submarine Hunter-Killer teams were among the duties of Bogue-class CVEs.  Hell, the Royal Navy was the main recipient of the class, so an RN Bogue-class killing subs is really on the money for historical purposes.

Bogues did a lot of ASW work on both sides of the Atlantic, especially in the Caribbean; and knowing WGs love of selling the same ship as many times as possible, we could easily see both a USN version and an RN version.

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3 hours ago, Bluemoon51 said:

With the upcoming introduction of submarines into the game, do people feel there might be a role within the game for the hybrid cruiser-carrier(most notably ships like the IJN Tone class, the Ise class the Swedish Gotland to name but three, in addition to a number of other navies looking into it quite extensively )in an ASW type role, I'm assuming that they would be played like a normal cruiser with additional foatplane consumables perhaps giving a longer charge and more charges to model their greater importance on such ships. Obviously this assumes that foatplanes will be given an ASW role once submarines are introduced into the game. 

Actually, the new soviet 'superlight' cruiser line that will be introduced after subs...

 

..actually fly. For real. Everyone knows USSR had flying warships. WG is just being historically accurate and sticking to the strictest fidelity of simulation that has made them and their products so famous and distinguished for so long. 

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9 hours ago, MaxMcKay said:

There were float plane tenders and the like but they had to anchor some where sheltered usually to launch their planes.  You probably can get away with side catapult launches but recovery would be the sticking point.  There are BB/CV hybrids that could be played with though as well.  would think this would be a fun thing to try.  Though I'd rather have my CVL and CVE's back for hunting subs and the like.

The reason I left the pure float plane-tenders (such as the Langley)  off is because mechanically (in terms of the game) it will be relatively simple to turn them and the CVL(E)s into ASW carriers. Hybrids are a little harder because they are also combat ships in their own right. I guess the one issue with ASW Carriers is what do they do once the subs are sunk, will they have limited surface strike ability?

Edited by Bluemoon51

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Whats funny is that Tone and Ise are already in WoWs Blitz and another WoWs clone I play.  Its certainly a doable idea and it wouldn't even require that much on the part of Wargaming,  the old RTS system is still usable,  you just target a ship and hit the corresponding plane button to send it of on one of the old auto-strike sequences.  Make it supplemental damage with the brunt of it coming from the main guns.  Then you could also have the some that are the opposite in said WoWs clone,  where the planes are dangerous but the guns significantly less so.

Not gonna lie,  I'd play the crap out of an Ise or even Tone class.

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Le Pentagone s'inspire du SHIELD avec des porte-avions volants

Just call it the 'Crazy Ivan' and sell it for $50. War Gaming will make millions. 

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4 hours ago, Palladia said:

Whats funny is that Tone and Ise are already in WoWs Blitz and another WoWs clone I play.  Its certainly a doable idea and it wouldn't even require that much on the part of Wargaming,  the old RTS system is still usable,  you just target a ship and hit the corresponding plane button to send it of on one of the old auto-strike sequences.  Make it supplemental damage with the brunt of it coming from the main guns.  Then you could also have the some that are the opposite in said WoWs clone,  where the planes are dangerous but the guns significantly less so.

Not gonna lie,  I'd play the crap out of an Ise or even Tone class.

As would I my Mogami, if they would give her a D hull for the 1943 conversion.

 

th13UNX350.jpg

E6vzuTu.jpg

OIP.jpg

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3 hours ago, Jolly_Rodgered said:

Le Pentagone s'inspire du SHIELD avec des porte-avions volants

Just call it the 'Crazy Ivan' and sell it for $50. War Gaming will make millions. 

put that in the game, i might tray a carrier again :)

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The problem with hybrid ships is that they trade firepower (and a ot of firepower in some cases) for what? A consumable fighter/spotter plane gimmick? Not worth it. Even if its a ASW consumable, its still a situational consumable gimmick.

 

The only thing that could be worth,  is if we could directly control the planes, but this would create micromanagment issues and MM issues. 

 

 

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I was watching a show the other day on maybe the battle of Coral Sea (that was the one before Midway right?)and it was really interesting how the two sides had totally differing tactics when it came to fleet reconnaissance. The USN used carrier planes for it, the IJN didn't use them at all, all theirs was carried out by float-planes or long range seaplanes, really quite bizarre. I had a lengthy debate with my father who was a relatively senior Military officer(in neither country)and we couldn't come up with a sound reason they would employ such a tactic exclusively  

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8 minutes ago, Xlap said:

The problem with hybrid ships is that they trade firepower (and a ot of firepower in some cases) for what? A consumable fighter/spotter plane gimmick? Not worth it. Even if its a ASW consumable, its still a situational consumable gimmick.

 

The only thing that could be worth,  is if we could directly control the planes, but this would create micromanagment issues and MM issues. 

 

 

Yes that's always going to be the drawback, perhaps it will never overcome balancing problems, but it would be interesting to see(and its well known that the Soviet Navy had the very best hybrids!!!)

Edited by Bluemoon51

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1 hour ago, Bluemoon51 said:

I was watching a show the other day on maybe the battle of Coral Sea (that was the one before Midway right?)and it was really interesting how the two sides had totally differing tactics when it came to fleet reconnaissance. The USN used carrier planes for it, the IJN didn't use them at all, all theirs was carried out by float-planes or long range seaplanes, really quite bizarre. I had a lengthy debate with my father who was a relatively senior Military officer(in neither country)and we couldn't come up with a sound reason they would employ such a tactic exclusively  

The IJN idea was that cruiers would launch spotter planes so that CVs would focus entirely in strike/defense. While USN would have to comit some of their plane capacity to scout planes and deck time to launch/retrieve those planes. 

 

The problem with that  strategy is that is much easier to coordinate scouting when it comes from a single or a couple ships than when multiple ships are doing. Also, different ships had differenct scout planes at their disposal, with different scouting ranges. So the IJN strategy seems nice on paper, but is much easier to screw up (as they did multiple times). 

 

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Well if we want an anti-sub CV, we need the USS Guadalcanal. Granted its only Casablanca class but still this ship would be warranted. 

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3 hours ago, Bluemoon51 said:

Great read thanks for sharing, do you see a possible ASW role for them?

It looks like WG is going to have spotter planes circle sub positions - at least in the latest test server version (which could change). That would definitely make these floatplane ships valuable as sub spotters.

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19 hours ago, Bluemoon51 said:

The reason I left the pure float plane-tenders (such as the Langley)  off is because mechanically (in terms of the game) it will be relatively simple to turn them and the CVL(E)s into ASW carriers. Hybrids are a little harder because they are also combat ships in their own right. I guess the one issue with ASW Carriers is what do they do once the subs are sunk, will they have limited surface strike ability?

Well I would say that they should have the ability to alter load outs for anti shipping strikes as well.  So that they have use to the team if there is no submarines to go after.  Also there has been talks way back about making the CVE/CVL's assist ships.  IE helping with fire fighting, dropping smoke pots, as well as some offensive abilities so they can defend themselves or help the team in another way.

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