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Frigate007

Turrets breaking?

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I have noticed since update a huge increase in my main turrets getting taken out, most every battle several times? Does not matter what ship I'm in, or what is shooting at me? Did WG change something that results in this? 

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If you're playing Battleships, you wouldn't be using those quad-gun 380mm armed FR BBs, would you? :cap_cool:

On 3/29/2018 at 3:26 PM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

*snip*

And to remain on topic of the OP's post:

 

You want to really annoy a Tier VIII-IX French BB player that is angled or bow on against you?  Plant BB AP shells into the turrets.

This post below should be terrifying.

 

 

If you're brawling another Battleship with your own Battleship, at such ranges you can actually make more reliable called shots on a specific location of a ship.  Against another BB, it's quite viable to aim for and smash the other BB's turrets with some good AP salvos.

 

Lots of things come into play:  Turret face armor thickness, barbette armor thickness, high exposed is the barbette, how large the turret is (more surface to hit), turret face angle, etc.  Even how the turrets are arranged with each other can mean how protective they are to each other, or how exposed they become for breaking, destroying them.

 

At brawling ranges, the very high AP Penetration values of Battleship shells can work BB turrets over real good.  Some turrets are more vulnerable than others.

 

DD & Cruiser turrets?  They're all squishy.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Yep. You aim at 1/3rd of a ships weapons, and you can remove them from the game. They don't regenerate.

Oh, but never mind defensive AA. Not only does it not stop the CV hitting you on that attack, his aircraft always regenerate, so you can't reduce his damage potential.

There was a time when you could, but the CV class is so beset by unfair mechanics (they are always the first to die in battles), they needed a special buff in this regard.

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7 minutes ago, SidTheBlade said:

Yep. You aim at 1/3rd of a ships weapons, and you can remove them from the game. They don't regenerate.

Oh, but never mind defensive AA. Not only does it not stop the CV hitting you on that attack, his aircraft always regenerate, so you can't reduce his damage potential.

There was a time when you could, but the CV class is so beset by unfair mechanics (they are always the first to die in battles), they needed a special buff in this regard.

CVs have hangar pull times.  Aircraft numbers are on par with CV carrying capabilities.   DDs have regenerating torps though.  Very few DDs actually carried reloads -- like 3

AA is effective -- effective CVs aren't taking off w/ full squadrons by the end of the match.  If doing heavy work with TBs and DBs, the rockets might have enough time to get full squads pulled.  They seem to come up from the hangar faster. 

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25 minutes ago, Frigate007 said:

I have noticed since update a huge increase in my main turrets getting taken out, most every battle several times? Does not matter what ship I'm in, or what is shooting at me? Did WG change something that results in this? 

What ships have you been playing?

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24 minutes ago, Frigate007 said:

I have noticed since update a huge increase in my main turrets getting taken out, most every battle several times? Does not matter what ship I'm in, or what is shooting at me? Did WG change something that results in this? 

Are you running PM captain skill?  It reduces the likelihood of turrets going down, but they can / will still be destroyed.  Doing so is an effective tactic, particularly if you can destroy 1 of 2 forward facing turrets.  It significantly lowers the ships ability to do damage and will at times force them to open themselves up to more attacks by trying to bring the back into action.

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23 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

If you're playing Battleships, you wouldn't be using those quad-gun 380mm armed FR BBs, would you? :cap_cool:

 

If you're brawling another Battleship with your own Battleship, at such ranges you can actually make more reliable called shots on a specific location of a ship.  Against another BB, it's quite viable to aim for and smash the other BB's turrets with some good AP salvos.

 

Lots of things come into play:  Turret face armor thickness, barbette armor thickness, high exposed is the barbette, how large the turret is (more surface to hit), turret face angle, etc.  Even how the turrets are arranged with each other can mean how protective they are to each other, or how exposed they become for breaking, destroying them.

 

At brawling ranges, the very high AP Penetration values of Battleship shells can work BB turrets over real good.  Some turrets are more vulnerable than others.

 

DD & Cruiser turrets?  They're all squishy.

Besides the Frenchies, the FDG's turrets are susceptible to being knocked out, and the Iowa's can also be removed (although it seems to take more work).

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1 hour ago, Frigate007 said:

I have noticed since update a huge increase in my main turrets getting taken out, most every battle several times? Does not matter what ship I'm in, or what is shooting at me? Did WG change something that results in this? 

Sometimes this happens randomly and sometimes on purpose.

Go to coop and/or scenarios and practice on the bots. It can be an effective tool against an angled BB if you at least disable the gun temporarily. It's a lot more RNG to permanently knock it out of the game.

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41 minutes ago, Capt_Ahab1776 said:

really fun when the JB gets both her turrets knocked out

Then its time to go on a torpedo run.

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I've had Hood turrets knocked out by a t5 DD at 8km, run PM on many of my ships. I'm seeing this on all classes of ships from t5 to t9. Seeing this in both co op and random. Was much rarer before last update.

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14 minutes ago, DrHolmes52 said:

Then its time to go on a torpedo run.

It does become situational for sure.

If just staying alive is most beneficial then speed boost out of danger (if possible).

If becoming the torpedo is most beneficial, then put on your life vests. Unless your this guy.

"I'll never put on a life jacket again."

iu073JSQJF.jpg

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7 hours ago, DrHolmes52 said:

Besides the Frenchies, the FDG's turrets are susceptible to being knocked out, and the Iowa's can also be removed (although it seems to take more work).

There's a number of very fragile BB turrets out there.  But first thing's first, an Artillery Chart with a number of Tier VIII BBs taken as an example of the power of their AP penetration.

ePent7L.jpg

Let's say you're in a Tier VIII USN BB with those 16"/45 guns, brawling at 9km.  Those AP shells have just under 600mm of penetration.  And when you look at the turret face thicknesses, you'll see why BB AP in a brawl can do wonders against turrets.

 

Now take a look at various BB turret faces out there as well as the face angles.  Generally the bigger the guns the heavier the turret face protection.

 

Richelieu 430mm turret face.  Compared to her peers, the turret face thickness isn't the issue.

Note how high the 2nd turret rides above the 1st turret, to the point where you can even see the barbette.

Next, look how wide the quad-gun 380mm turret is.  There's just so much turret face to hit.

Personally, I aim my BB AP salvo right between the bottom edge of the 2nd turret and the top of the 1st turret.  The way the shells arc some, especially USN BB shells, you'll hit the turret faces for either turret or lob them into the barbette of the 2nd turret.  Alsace, Jean Bart share the same turret arrangement and the same vulnerability.  Gascogne shares the same quad turrets, but how the guns are arranged, i.e. 1 on bow and stern, she's not as vulnerable as Richelieu, Alsace, Jean Bart is.  Republique in Tier X shares the Gascogne style of turret arrangement, as well as having considerably thicker turret faces.

IMO, the FR quad-gun 380mm turrets are the squishiest BB turrets in these tiers.

Spoiler

 

kjBjuBj.jpg

o594jlm.jpg

 

 

Bismarck-class 360mm turret face, practically vertical.  Very easy to smash and the only saving grace is the turret face is narrow, so those head on AP salvos don't have the wide FR turret faces to catch every shell thrown their way.  But if they do hit, there's not much to save these German turrets.

Spoiler

 

0jvFiJx.jpg

Z0H3Qyl.jpg

 

 

Vladivistok 425mm turret face, practically vertical.  IMO almost as vulnerable as the FR ones.  Near vertical turret face, worse turret face thickness as the FR one, and the 2nd turret also rides high on a exposed barbette.  The only reason she's not as bad as Richelieu's is she doesn't have that awful, wide turret face to catch lots of shells.

Spoiler

 

kvnzvoH.jpg

sxExFEO.jpg

 

 

North Carolina / South Dakota-class 406mm turret face.

Richelieu's turrets actually have a thicker turret face, but note the better angling of the USN BB turret.

In addition, the 2nd turret rides rather low and the barbette is covered up by the forward turret if these USN BBs are bow on / sharply angled.

IMO, fairly tanky, you'll need repeated hits to disable / destroy these things but they won't hold up forever if you're fighting at ranges where your BB opponent can make precise shots.

Spoiler

 

375B5Up.jpg

A1aGqtE.jpg

 

 

And for the LULZ, Yamato-class turrets.  Sturdy a.f.

650mm turret face that is also well angled like the USN BB turrets.

Just like the High Tier USN BB turrets, Yamato's 2nd turret rides rather low and is not sitting atop a highly exposed barbette like Richelieu-class does.

Spoiler

 

u8UV3pj.jpg

1IfhQVj.jpg

 

 

So, going back to using a Tier VIII USN BB and her 16"/45 guns, her AP at a 9km engagement is just under 600mm of penetration.  In the above examples she can penetrate turret faces at that range... Except for Yamato's monstrous 650mm turret faces.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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6 hours ago, Frigate007 said:

I've had Hood turrets knocked out by a t5 DD at 8km, run PM on many of my ships. I'm seeing this on all classes of ships from t5 to t9. Seeing this in both co op and random. Was much rarer before last update.

I'd need to see some replay proof of a Tier V DD using guns to KO Hood turrets.  I have an extremely hard time believing that.

 

Hood has a 381mm turret face and 280mm-305mm armor on the sides, with 305mm barbettes.

Below are a bunch of Tier V DDs in an Artillery Chart showing their AP penetration.

hVPRplE.jpg

The best in this example is Nicholas, but even at 0m her best AP penetration value is about 230mm.  That is nowhere near even enough to KO Hood's turrets even at 0m, and the other DDs listed here are far worse.

 

So again, I highly doubt what you're saying is true.  I will need Replay proof.

What's more likely is you're so focused on the DD but it was someone else hitting and disabling your Hood's turrets.  In all likeliness it was another BB doing that to you.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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This is happening at a much higher rate since the last update and it does not matter what kind ship or what Tier I am in.
More fires too.
Same ships as before... same play style.... one shot and I loose a turret.
Let's see if WG starts selling a special turret protection flag or if the new Russian ships coming out have their magic "balanced" armor.

 

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3 minutes ago, Gen_Tso_Wat said:

This is happening at a much higher rate since the last update and it does not matter what kind ship or what Tier I am in.
More fires too.
Same ships as before... same play style.... one shot and I loose a turret.
Let's see if WG starts selling a special turret protection flag or if the new Russian ships coming out have their magic "balanced" armor.

 

Just like back in the "WG nurfed muh Missouri dispurzion" days when every clown around here swore up and down that happened, when it reality, nothing did.

Even some notable CCs thought so to, but again, nothing had happened.

 

My first two replies in this thread goes into how turrets can be broken also.  Some are more vulnerable then others.

Nothing has changed.

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12 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Just like back in the "WG nurfed muh Missouri dispurzion" days when every clown around here swore up and down that happened, when it reality, nothing did.

Even some notable CCs thought so to, but again, nothing had happened.

 

My first two replies in this thread goes into how turrets can be broken also.  Some are more vulnerable then others.

Nothing has changed.

Ok.... then I am one of the "clowns" and it did not just happen to me 5 games in a row prompting me to post here which I rarely do.
It does not happen to the guy that started the thread either and it does not happen to the players talking about it in YouTube videos or in the game itself.
Random people scattered around the country with no connection other than playing WoWS but it is all in our heads and nothing has changed.

 

Edited by Gen_Tso_Wat

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6 minutes ago, Gen_Tso_Wat said:

Ok.... then I am one of the "clowns" and it did not just happen to me 5 games in a row prompting me to post here which I rarely do.
It does not happen to the guy that started the thread either and it does not happen to the players talking about it in YouTube videos or in the game itself.
Random people scattered around the country with no connection other than playing WoWS but it is all in our heads and nothing has changed.

 

Confirmation Bias.

Look it up.

 

Some people believing in something wrong doesn't change it to be suddenly true.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Just now, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Confirmation Bias.

Look it up.

I did not mean to sound pissy about it.
I am aware that you know the game much better than I do and I appreciate your opinion and input.
Thanks.

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On 4/13/2020 at 12:33 PM, CV_Jeebies said:

CVs have hangar pull times.  Aircraft numbers are on par with CV carrying capabilities.   DDs have regenerating torps though.  Very few DDs actually carried reloads -- like 3

AA is effective -- effective CVs aren't taking off w/ full squadrons by the end of the match.  If doing heavy work with TBs and DBs, the rockets might have enough time to get full squads pulled.  They seem to come up from the hangar faster. 

Very few CV could launch squadron after squadron after squadron and regenerate them as well but I suppose that's balans.

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