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HBZK100

I'm sick of the Negativity with CVs

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This is going to be a bit of a rant, so just beware LOL.

This latest patch seems to have ruined CV gameplay, i've played about 5-7 games today and the negativity in chat is so nuts when it comes to CVs. Whether it's getting killed by a cv, or even allies saying i wasn't doing my job properly. Man it's just getting really old and annoying.

Plus, this latest patch seems to have nerfed CV damage output drastically. I'm getting pretty bad damage results per game, where in the previous patch i matched about 100k every match, now i'm barely hitting 50k per match now. And the torpedo bombers on american aircraft carriers are basically useless, every ship i fight, can dodge so easily i can't do anything about it. I've basically given up on TB almost altogether, using them only as a last resort. (And i get no floods at all anymore, so Torpedo bombers are so freaken useless.)

I'm getting so tired of this guys, i've been a CV main for the past 4 years of World of Warships and whether it was the RTS CVs or now the reworked CVs, seems they are always getting hate and we always get patches where it's just annoying to use CVs.
 

Like Wargaming, please tell us what the heck are CVs supposed to be used for? With such stupid low damage numbers of 50k per game, and me doing my absolute best, i feel absolutely useless to my team. I can't do major damage to a single bloody ship besides destroyers (which even then is somewhat hard still but that's fine with me), so i can't stop a push or anything.

At this rate, I should just be a BB main and pump out way higher damage numbers per game AND be valuable to my team by being far more capable of stopping an offensive push.

Here's what I'm thinking CVs are used for:

A. Spotting
B. Getting in enough damage on an IMPORTANT ship, so the enemies's offensive is at least effectively stopped for a period of time. (But again, 50k damage numbers per match makes this absolutely useless, my bombs and rockets and torpedoes feel like love taps.)

 

Anyways, I'm not sure how long i'll be playing carriers ONCE AGAIN. Seems this branch of ships is always getting criticized and constantly getting buffs and nerfs, buffs then MORE nerfs. It's getting annoying WG.

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Torpedo bombers are all I trust, with maybe a bit of rocket thrown in for good measure.

To me it’s the bombers that are worthless; just fireworks for ship crews.

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22 minutes ago, HBZK100 said:

This is going to be a bit of a rant, so just beware LOL.

This latest patch seems to have ruined CV gameplay, i've played about 5-7 games today and the negativity in chat is so nuts when it comes to CVs. Whether it's getting killed by a cv, or even allies saying i wasn't doing my job properly. Man it's just getting really old and annoying.

Plus, this latest patch seems to have nerfed CV damage output drastically. I'm getting pretty bad damage results per game, where in the previous patch i matched about 100k every match, now i'm barely hitting 50k per match now. And the torpedo bombers on american aircraft carriers are basically useless, every ship i fight, can dodge so easily i can't do anything about it. I've basically given up on TB almost altogether, using them only as a last resort. (And i get no floods at all anymore, so Torpedo bombers are so freaken useless.)

I'm getting so tired of this guys, i've been a CV main for the past 4 years of World of Warships and whether it was the RTS CVs or now the reworked CVs, seems they are always getting hate and we always get patches where it's just annoying to use CVs.
 

Like Wargaming, please tell us what the heck are CVs supposed to be used for? With such stupid low damage numbers of 50k per game, and me doing my absolute best, i feel absolutely useless to my team. I can't do major damage to a single bloody ship besides destroyers (which even then is somewhat hard still but that's fine with me), so i can't stop a push or anything.

At this rate, I should just be a BB main and pump out way higher damage numbers per game AND be valuable to my team by being far more capable of stopping an offensive push.

Here's what I'm thinking CVs are used for:

A. Spotting
B. Getting in enough damage on an IMPORTANT ship, so the enemies's offensive is at least effectively stopped for a period of time. (But again, 50k damage numbers per match makes this absolutely useless, my bombs and rockets and torpedoes feel like love taps.)

 

Anyways, I'm not sure how long i'll be playing carriers ONCE AGAIN. Seems this branch of ships is always getting criticized and constantly getting buffs and nerfs, buffs then MORE nerfs. It's getting annoying WG.

You have played cv's more then me. I simply ignore the hate and play with clan mates. Least they will respect your abilities so if you wanna join us. :cap_like:

Far as cv's roll it seems pretty cut and dry at the moment. Farm damage and spot. Depends what cv you are in on how you go about it. American cv's rockets and dive bombers  are bread and butter. Ijn torps and dive bombers  and British are a damage over time with torps and level bombers. Each with it's own play style.

I find myself going ijn more now days but do love some ranger and enterprise gameplay. Tier 10 I tend to try to stay clear of AA is crazy at 10. It's manageable at 8 and 6 is meh 4 is a joke but at 4 so is the cv itself. Keep doing your thing bro.

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Don't take this personal OP but....... I'm getting tired of these kinds of threads on both sides lol.....

 

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Edited by Schnitchelkid01_
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I picked up several premium CVs this holiday season so I’ve been experimenting more with them, mostly in co-op though.

When I do brave a random match I’m currently sticking to T6 tech tree ships. The hate (from both sides) is real and annoying. EVERYONE suddenly becomes an expert and unless you’re winning you’re the reason you’re losing...

Nice match yesterday (wasn’t in a CV) but a T10 cruiser was all over chat telling the CV driver how horrible they were. The CV player handled it fairly well and when all was said & done (In a loss) our CV finished 1st to the cruiser’s 10th. I’m sure there was stuff the CV could’ve done better but that cruiser operator needed some work as well.

Hang in there...

 

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If you are a CV player, when you load in to a game, check the team line up.  If you are the only CV on your team, you will receive moderate salt.

If you are one of two CV's on your team, you will be saturated with hate, vitriol, and angst. 

If you are one of three CV's on your team (shouldn't happen anymore), you are clubbing at T4 and you deserve to be flogged and burned at the stake.

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Having a HAK take 8k off my dd in ONE rocket pass....

Having a CV spot me as he turns for his second pass....

Loosing another 8k health on second pass, plus 6k from incomming shell....

Having 2 permanent fires within 2 minutes and dead in 3 minutes....

MATCH AFTER MATCH....

Buddy I really don't feel your pain....

#MAKEAAGREATAGAIN

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12 minutes ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Having a HAK take 8k off my dd in ONE rocket pass....

Having a CV spot me as he turns for his second pass....

Loosing another 8k health on second pass, plus 6k from incomming shell....

Having 2 permanent fires within 2 minutes and dead in 3 minutes....

MATCH AFTER MATCH....

Buddy I really don't feel your pain....

#MAKEAAGREATAGAIN

maybe if you stop rushing the cap right away you would die within 3 min ....

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3 minutes ago, dad003 said:

maybe if you stop rushing the cap right away you would die within 3 min ....

Kleber 4 km from a cap, on the flank.....

 

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Well that was a rousing game of find the cv hating whiners.

O.P., just remind them that their tears fuel your planes.  If they are friendly ships hating on you, support everyone else.  If they are enemy ships, single them out and remind them why they hate CV's so much.  OR, just play your game and realize that thanks to covid 19 and the now eternal weekend gameplay most players have no idea what they should be doing let alone what you should be doing. 

I had a Massachusetts refuse to charge into a cap with me in my Georgia to kill a line friesland because "I don't want to get torp'd".  When I told him that ship does not have torps he called me an idiot.  

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Well just remember it's just as annoying for us to play against CVs as it is for you to play against us. And seeing as most people want CVs to go away, you quitting is pretty much just mission accomplished.

I don't blame CV players, I blame WG. But I'm not real sympathetic to people complaining about how bad CVs are.

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3 hours ago, HBZK100 said:

This latest patch seems to have ruined CV gameplay

CV gameplay was ruined way before this last patch, and the reason you feel all those "bad vibes" coming your way from everywhere is because carriers have never been balanced properly. And now, with the rework, they've been made much more difficult to sink than any other ship. Why wouldn't you be hated? 

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17 hours ago, HBZK100 said:

This is going to be a bit of a rant, so just beware LOL.

This latest patch seems to have ruined CV gameplay, i've played about 5-7 games today and the negativity in chat is so nuts when it comes to CVs. Whether it's getting killed by a cv, or even allies saying i wasn't doing my job properly. Man it's just getting really old and annoying.

Plus, this latest patch seems to have nerfed CV damage output drastically. I'm getting pretty bad damage results per game, where in the previous patch i matched about 100k every match, now i'm barely hitting 50k per match now. And the torpedo bombers on american aircraft carriers are basically useless, every ship i fight, can dodge so easily i can't do anything about it. I've basically given up on TB almost altogether, using them only as a last resort. (And i get no floods at all anymore, so Torpedo bombers are so freaken useless.)

I'm getting so tired of this guys, i've been a CV main for the past 4 years of World of Warships and whether it was the RTS CVs or now the reworked CVs, seems they are always getting hate and we always get patches where it's just annoying to use CVs.
 

Like Wargaming, please tell us what the heck are CVs supposed to be used for? With such stupid low damage numbers of 50k per game, and me doing my absolute best, i feel absolutely useless to my team. I can't do major damage to a single bloody ship besides destroyers (which even then is somewhat hard still but that's fine with me), so i can't stop a push or anything.

At this rate, I should just be a BB main and pump out way higher damage numbers per game AND be valuable to my team by being far more capable of stopping an offensive push.

Here's what I'm thinking CVs are used for:

A. Spotting
B. Getting in enough damage on an IMPORTANT ship, so the enemies's offensive is at least effectively stopped for a period of time. (But again, 50k damage numbers per match makes this absolutely useless, my bombs and rockets and torpedoes feel like love taps.)

 

Anyways, I'm not sure how long i'll be playing carriers ONCE AGAIN. Seems this branch of ships is always getting criticized and constantly getting buffs and nerfs, buffs then MORE nerfs. It's getting annoying WG.

So it wasn't just me I did notice this :fish_book: I was able to do more with ryujo than with ranger :Smile_hiding: I have noticed you get more damage playing BB than you do playing CV example and this in coop :Smile_popcorn: I have gotten 115 k damage Ishizuchi was probably my best damage output on BB the best I do on a CV in coop is less than 30k if I am lucky :Smile_sceptic: But I get constantly good amount of damage in Ishizuchi then I ever do with a CV of the same tier :Smile_teethhappy: I get the odd feeling CVs will become like arty useless and glorified spotters for other players to farm damage :Smile_bajan2:

Edited by LastRemnant

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I commented on this elsewhere, but my experience of carriers now is that they are incapable of much of anything.

They're not good at spotting.  Destroyers can't be seen until your planes are DIRECTLY overhead (meaning you can't attack), and if there's smoke, you can't see them at all.  Cruisers are invisible until their AA starts killing your planes, so you again can't do anything to them, or stay in range to make spotting them useful.  Carriers are much the same as cruisers.  You CAN spot battleships from some distance... but so can EVERYONE.

They're unable to provide air support.  The new fighter support is a consumable, which means you run out.  More, it's UTTERLY useless, as it's completely static (meaning allies leave the cover behind), covers a very small area, does nearly no damage and evaporates if anyone sneezes in its direction.  Moreover, you have to divert your attack planes to the area you want to drop the consumable, cutting into your already anemic damage.

They're unable to produce damage.  At least at the lower levels (I'm only up to the Ranger), planes are unable to produce more than a pittance of damage.  My most damaging planes are my torpedo bombers.  Each torpedo will do around 3000 damage if it hits.  My Ranger can drop only TWO torpedoes per run.  Theoretically, I would get four runs.  However, this is NEVER the case.  You make your first run, and half your planes are dead before you even drop.  If you're LUCKY, you will get two hits.  Now, you have to turn around and drop again, facing MORE AA.  IF you get to drop again, it's likely only going to be one torpedo.  That means AT MOST you'll land 3 torpedo hits at the cost of all your planes.  That's 9000 damage, HALF of the damage of ONE ship launched torpedo.  Destroyers and cruisers can launch MANY torpedoes, able to alpha strike in the tens of thousands.  ONE Battleship shell is capable of doing 20,000 damage.  Now, the CV, having done his measly 9000 damage, has to send more planes to the combat area if he's going to attack again.  He doesn't have torpedo planes now, so he has to use something else.  It doesn't matter though, because by the time the planes get to the target it will already be dead, killed by someone capable of actually DOING damage.

So, Carriers are unable to perform ANY function in combat.  It shouldn't BE this way.  In reality, Carriers DID change the way naval warfare was fought.  There's a REASON no one builds battleships anymore.

However, this isn't reality, it's a game, and right now, Carriers are nearly unplayable.

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13 hours ago, Vego_Mohenjo said:

I commented on this elsewhere, but my experience of carriers now is that they are incapable of much of anything.

They're not good at spotting.  Destroyers can't be seen until your planes are DIRECTLY overhead (meaning you can't attack), and if there's smoke, you can't see them at all.  Cruisers are invisible until their AA starts killing your planes, so you again can't do anything to them, or stay in range to make spotting them useful.  Carriers are much the same as cruisers.  You CAN spot battleships from some distance... but so can EVERYONE.

They're unable to provide air support.  The new fighter support is a consumable, which means you run out.  More, it's UTTERLY useless, as it's completely static (meaning allies leave the cover behind), covers a very small area, does nearly no damage and evaporates if anyone sneezes in its direction.  Moreover, you have to divert your attack planes to the area you want to drop the consumable, cutting into your already anemic damage.

They're unable to produce damage.  At least at the lower levels (I'm only up to the Ranger), planes are unable to produce more than a pittance of damage.  My most damaging planes are my torpedo bombers.  Each torpedo will do around 3000 damage if it hits.  My Ranger can drop only TWO torpedoes per run.  Theoretically, I would get four runs.  However, this is NEVER the case.  You make your first run, and half your planes are dead before you even drop.  If you're LUCKY, you will get two hits.  Now, you have to turn around and drop again, facing MORE AA.  IF you get to drop again, it's likely only going to be one torpedo.  That means AT MOST you'll land 3 torpedo hits at the cost of all your planes.  That's 9000 damage, HALF of the damage of ONE ship launched torpedo.  Destroyers and cruisers can launch MANY torpedoes, able to alpha strike in the tens of thousands.  ONE Battleship shell is capable of doing 20,000 damage.  Now, the CV, having done his measly 9000 damage, has to send more planes to the combat area if he's going to attack again.  He doesn't have torpedo planes now, so he has to use something else.  It doesn't matter though, because by the time the planes get to the target it will already be dead, killed by someone capable of actually DOING damage.

So, Carriers are unable to perform ANY function in combat.  It shouldn't BE this way.  In reality, Carriers DID change the way naval warfare was fought.  There's a REASON no one builds battleships anymore.

However, this isn't reality, it's a game, and right now, Carriers are nearly unplayable.

This has nothing to do with the carrier's capability and is entirely on the captain.  I have had no trouble dealing damage in carriers.  Easiest thing you can do in this game right now.

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Just look at the math.  A plane's torpedo will do somewhere around 3000 damage.  Each drop (of 2 torps) is likely only to get one hit because they're so far apart.  If you're very fortunate, you might get two to hit, but it's really unlikely.  If you do get a second run in, that's only one more torpedo, so your damage on your assault, which would take quite some time to execute because you have to turn around a realign for a second run, is going to be between 6000 and 9000 damage.  Now, I launch a second wave of planes.  It will take them time to get to the target.

In that time, a battleship could land a shot with one volley.  EACH hit will do at minimum around 5000 damage.  If the battleship sends out 10 shells, and 3 of them hit, that's 15000 damage.  He'll fire like that 4, maybe 5 times in the amount of time it would take my second squad of planes to reach the target.  That's anywhere from 60000 damage and up.

A cruiser is a bit harder to quantify, because their ability to do damage varies so widely.  Some ships (like the Dallas, for example) rely on fires which will damage the enemy over time.  Others have large enough guns in large enough numbers to do nearly as much damage as the battleships.  Then there's the torpedoes.  An average spread of 4 torpedoes will land usually 2-3 hits.  EACH torpedo will do anywhere from 12000-18000 damage, THEN flooding.  Now, they're only likely to get the one shot in, but that's around 24000 damage JUST from torpedoes, let alone the guns.

A destroyer will fire even MORE torpedoes than that, and will usually land more OF them, because of their stealthiness.  A destroyer launching say... 6 torpedoes, can usually land 3-5 of them, each doing up to 18000 damage.  If we assume 4 hits, that's 72000 damage.

This would all happen in the same time it takes a carrier to get a second squad to target.  Again, it won't be torpedoes, this time it'll be bombers or rockets, whose damage is trivial at best.

So, carrier damage is around 9000.  Battleships are around 60000.  Cruisers will do in excess of 24000, just from torps.  Destroyers are looking at around 72000 from torps.  That 9000 damage just isn't competetive at all.  The only thing the carrier has going for it is that it can't usually be directly counterattacked, but its offensive power CAN be countered, and this is why its damage is so low.

The loss of the other jobs hurts, but the inability to do damage severely hinders the carrier because in the final analysis, the one thing every ship needs to be able to do is damage the enemy.  If you can't do that, you can't win a game.

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I say, if you love a ship, then play it and enjoy it.  

WHO CARES WHAT EVERYONE ELSE SAYS?  If YOU want to play this videogame and enjoy it, then by golly, what is stopping you?  

YOU decide with the time that is given to you. Not others. 

Gandalf-Tolkien quote.jpg

Edited by Ciryandil
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12 hours ago, Vego_Mohenjo said:

Just look at the math.  A plane's torpedo will do somewhere around 3000 damage.  Each drop (of 2 torps) is likely only to get one hit because they're so far apart.  If you're very fortunate, you might get two to hit, but it's really unlikely.  If you do get a second run in, that's only one more torpedo, so your damage on your assault, which would take quite some time to execute because you have to turn around a realign for a second run, is going to be between 6000 and 9000 damage.  Now, I launch a second wave of planes.  It will take them time to get to the target.

In that time, a battleship could land a shot with one volley.  EACH hit will do at minimum around 5000 damage.  If the battleship sends out 10 shells, and 3 of them hit, that's 15000 damage.  He'll fire like that 4, maybe 5 times in the amount of time it would take my second squad of planes to reach the target.  That's anywhere from 60000 damage and up.

A cruiser is a bit harder to quantify, because their ability to do damage varies so widely.  Some ships (like the Dallas, for example) rely on fires which will damage the enemy over time.  Others have large enough guns in large enough numbers to do nearly as much damage as the battleships.  Then there's the torpedoes.  An average spread of 4 torpedoes will land usually 2-3 hits.  EACH torpedo will do anywhere from 12000-18000 damage, THEN flooding.  Now, they're only likely to get the one shot in, but that's around 24000 damage JUST from torpedoes, let alone the guns.

A destroyer will fire even MORE torpedoes than that, and will usually land more OF them, because of their stealthiness.  A destroyer launching say... 6 torpedoes, can usually land 3-5 of them, each doing up to 18000 damage.  If we assume 4 hits, that's 72000 damage.

This would all happen in the same time it takes a carrier to get a second squad to target.  Again, it won't be torpedoes, this time it'll be bombers or rockets, whose damage is trivial at best.

So, carrier damage is around 9000.  Battleships are around 60000.  Cruisers will do in excess of 24000, just from torps.  Destroyers are looking at around 72000 from torps.  That 9000 damage just isn't competetive at all.  The only thing the carrier has going for it is that it can't usually be directly counterattacked, but its offensive power CAN be countered, and this is why its damage is so low.

The loss of the other jobs hurts, but the inability to do damage severely hinders the carrier because in the final analysis, the one thing every ship needs to be able to do is damage the enemy.  If you can't do that, you can't win a game.

Reading this I was going to ask what game you are playing. Then I see you play PvE, so it explains a lot. 

You have some serious flaws in your logic.  BB's do not do a minimum 5k damage, closer to 1K for even the biggest bb guns.  Torps usually take on the order of a minute to reload.  You should have attacked several times with a CV in the time it takes one set of torps to load, be launched and reach the target.  If you are taking so long to get squads in, you are too far away as a CV, but if that were the case, we should see it in you damage numbers, but we don't (even in PvE, where CV is gimped by the speed at which the games usually play out).  Your average CV damage is on par with your average BB damage. It would probably go up if you would learn to use the rockets and bombers.  In addition, only getting single torp hits on bot BB is all on the carrier player, not a limitation of CV.  They don't dodge.  Screenshot of PvE battle just now, only using bombers and rockets. 

shot-20.04.15_15.52.56-0115.jpg

Edited by brdhntr

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I'm a horrible CV player and between all four of the ship lines, CV's are a very close second of ships that make me want to tear my hair out and throw my chair across the room (DD's being number one because unless I'm in a gunboat, I cannot for the life of me land a torpedo hit, but that's another matter).  As a very noobish CV driver (My bread and butter is cruisers and battleships) I can't say much on CV play itself on what works best and what to avoid, but as a long time WOWS player there is one thing that this game has badly going for it that it shares with another sport I hate playing.......golf.  Both on the surface looks easy and you mostly see the best players doing outstanding plays on TV, Twitch, and Youtube and you think to yourself, "Hey I can do that!  That looks easy."  Not knowing that it requires many many hours of practice and play to even get close at being above average.  Where both games become different is that if a golfer recognizes that they need more practice and ask for advice or lessons, there will always be someone who would positively try to help out.  In WOWS though, the only way to get better is to play against other players in randoms (Co-Op is only good to get the basics, but cannot compare to playing random matches.  Easiest and most painless way though is to find friends who will take the time to go into the Training Room to help with your play) and if you stumble you not only will trip and fall, but you will COMPLETELY fall off the cliff doing barely any kind of help for your team and they will castrate you in a second for being bad.  What being a new CV player does do is help your resolve and will because like Miyato Mushashi once said:

"It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

My advice is to focus not so much on doing damage to the enemy first, but to try to support your team.  Friendly DD about to start a cap?  Drop a fighter squadron ahead of his path.  Low HP ship who got away?  Take him out with rockets (Yes this may seem like kill stealing, but you just saved your BB's from a salvo that could have been used against something else with more HP and could be more dangerous).  Ask your team where they need you to be or what can you do.  If you're in a high tier game then do some ASW work....by that I mean find and destroy DD's first before trying for the high tier ships that will probably shred your planes faster than Hillary shredding her email.  Most important of all.....put on some good vibe tunes because nothing helps me get through a bad match by some really good music.  As for tips on CV play itself, watch some videos from TopTier.  He has some good CV play videos in which he also shows in great detail why he does certain things.  Here's one of his that helped me out: 

 

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On 4/12/2020 at 5:18 PM, neptunes_wrath said:

well I am SICK OF CV's  so we're even....

Shh no one can be sick of CV they are bae :fish_cute_2:

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Seeing how CVs are considered toxic and the most hated class in this game, it's no surprise you'd see constant negativity. It's just the life of the CV now so might as well get used to it. Or just mute chat lol

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I have worked my way up to Hakuryu and Midway, but have more fun with the Ryujo where there's more balance in ships and less of a need to do things like skip-bombing and the like to try and get through T10's punishing AA fire. And for the DD drivers who are angry at CVs...turn off your AA! Seriously, with your AA off you are really hard to spot until a CV basically flies over you. Once it passes, your call on turning it on briefly to ding some planes, but turn it off before the planes turn around. There's no cool-down on AA spotting now, you will instantly go invisible again -- and turn into the attacking planes to get inside their cooldown zone. Of course, if you have one of those new Euro DDs designed as AA platforms during the Cold War -- just drive around spitting AA, no worries, you'll shred airplanes!!

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