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MaxMcKay

True night battles.

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I would love to see a true night fight in the game.  Where it truly is dark, a new moon out on the sea.  So that it's a choice of risking the search lights to look for a enemy ship, or hydro/radar.  Or flares dropped from planes to illuminate a target to attack.  There are countless possibilities that could be used in this type of environment.  Doing night battles this way would give players another mode of game style that can be used on maps.  Also for those that are sensitive to the search lights glare, we could use a filter to take down some of the glare or allow players to use colored lights that would bother them less.

 

Was thinking this over for a bit.  I do hope this could be done soon as it would be truly fun to try to get these types of cat and mouse games going.

 

 

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They've only done it in an operation. Player's asked for it a ton years ago and all we got was the stinking operation which you can't play anymore.

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8 minutes ago, MaxMcKay said:

I would love to see a true night fight in the game.  Where it truly is dark, a new moon out on the sea.  So that it's a choice of risking the search lights to look for a enemy ship, or hydro/radar.  Or flares dropped from planes to illuminate a target to attack.  There are countless possibilities that could be used in this type of environment.  Doing night battles this way would give players another mode of game style that can be used on maps.  Also for those that are sensitive to the search lights glare, we could use a filter to take down some of the glare or allow players to use colored lights that would bother them less.

 

Was thinking this over for a bit.  I do hope this could be done soon as it would be truly fun to try to get these types of cat and mouse games going.

 

 

I don't like the idea of flares or search lights.  As I've said multiple times since WoWS went live, what I'd like to see is a simple version of night battles where night battles were largely the same as cyclones, just with a  dark sky and for the entire battle.  Limit max detection range to 8 or 12 km.  Increasing the max detection range to 12 km would nullify the ability of a team with radar to effectively open water stealth fire, and make radar only useful for detecting concealed DDs.  Hydro would function as normal.

This would make development of night battles as a battle mode vastly simpler, and IMO would make playing it simpler for players as well.  There wouldn't be a need for new mechanics and gimmicks.

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The most likely restriction to getting this in game would be the model lighting. Currently none of the models have lights, and this would need to be added to make night battles work. Also, dynamic light sources are often resource heavy on the client side, which is why you don't see it often in MMOs and multiplayer online games, especially twitch style shooters. WoWs being a MOBA style game means unless they could find a way to get the lighting to work without lag on 90% of the client computers, you won't see it anytime soon. 

It's not a bad idea, but there are technical limitations involved I don't see changing anytime soon.

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All you would have is 24 ships wondering around hitting islands and each other. Also if someone was lucky enough to find someone in the search light 12 ship would all shoot at the one ship at once, not practical for a computer game.

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     It would be really cool.  Ocean map so no islands in the way. 

     Flares and radar to find targets.   Search lights come on only when target is sighted and are tied into the main battery so they automatically track where your rifles are going.   Of course, once you light up your target your search lights illuminate most of your hull so you can be targeted by the enemy.  There'll be a ton of searchlights going off at times, so you'd have to use the mini map and focus well or you'll get hypnotized by the spectacle and get blasted.

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18 minutes ago, Raven114 said:

All you would have is 24 ships wondering around hitting islands and each other. Also if someone was lucky enough to find someone in the search light 12 ship would all shoot at the one ship at once, not practical for a computer game.

Good point. Everyone wants to be Washington, and not Kirishima (or Helena).

Edited by Nolo_00

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7 hours ago, slokill_1 said:

     It would be really cool.  Ocean map so no islands in the way. 

     Flares and radar to find targets.   Search lights come on only when target is sighted and are tied into the main battery so they automatically track where your rifles are going.   Of course, once you light up your target your search lights illuminate most of your hull so you can be targeted by the enemy.  There'll be a ton of searchlights going off at times, so you'd have to use the mini map and focus well or you'll get hypnotized by the spectacle and get blasted.

Sounds good except that that's not how light sources work in night time. The brilliance of the light source contrasting with the surrounding darkness messes with the eyes and all you see is the light as your eye attempts to adjust to the juxtaposition of light sources and magnitudes. That's why I carry a flashlight at night when walking my dog. As a self defense tool people who are illuminated but cannot see you at the source of the light are intimated and confused. While you can see clearly as your brain is anticipating the light and its not focused on your eyes but emanating from in from of them. Thus you can see them and they are partially blinded.  Works the same way psychologically when you scale it up to  naval proportions. 

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35 minutes ago, Barazzuolio said:

Sounds good except that that's not how light sources work in night time. The brilliance of the light source contrasting with the surrounding darkness messes with the eyes and all you see is the light as your eye attempts to adjust to the juxtaposition of light sources and magnitudes. That's why I carry a flashlight at night when walking my dog. As a self defense tool people who are illuminated but cannot see you at the source of the light are intimated and confused. While you can see clearly as your brain is anticipating the light and its not focused on your eyes but emanating from in from of them. Thus you can see them and they are partially blinded.  Works the same way psychologically when you scale it up to  naval proportions. 

I was reading "The Fall of Berlin" recently and apparently Zhukov fell in love with the idea of using search lights as on offensive tactic.  And against all advice, he went ahead and did it anyway on a grand scale and it ended up mostly blinding the soviets because of all the dust and smoke reflecting the light back at the Russkies.  

A forward commander was brave enough to say "F this Georgy" and turn them off and then Zhukov forced them to turn them back on.  Completing the total night blindness effect on the Soviets.  

I'm sure it works much better in a naval setting but thought that was kinda funny.

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2 hours ago, Barazzuolio said:

Sounds good except that that's not how light sources work in night time. The brilliance of the light source contrasting with the surrounding darkness messes with the eyes and all you see is the light as your eye attempts to adjust to the juxtaposition of light sources and magnitudes. That's why I carry a flashlight at night when walking my dog. As a self defense tool people who are illuminated but cannot see you at the source of the light are intimated and confused. While you can see clearly as your brain is anticipating the light and its not focused on your eyes but emanating from in from of them. Thus you can see them and they are partially blinded.  Works the same way psychologically when you scale it up to  naval proportions. 

Exactly this. The ship using the searchlight might be slighly illuminated...but only from the perspective of its crew. The ships on the receiving end of the beam are only going to see an intensely bright light.

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On 4/11/2020 at 1:11 AM, Barazzuolio said:

Sounds good except that that's not how light sources work in night time. The brilliance of the light source contrasting with the surrounding darkness messes with the eyes and all you see is the light as your eye attempts to adjust to the juxtaposition of light sources and magnitudes. That's why I carry a flashlight at night when walking my dog. As a self defense tool people who are illuminated but cannot see you at the source of the light are intimated and confused. While you can see clearly as your brain is anticipating the light and its not focused on your eyes but emanating from in from of them. Thus you can see them and they are partially blinded.  Works the same way psychologically when you scale it up to  naval proportions. 

Actually no not in the case of fleet engagements and how illumination is tied into things.  With launched flares the light is started away from near the viewer.  So it would be like looking at a streetlamp on a dark road.  You can see what the light shows without exposing yourself, or ruining your vision.  Secondly flares are good at pointing out movement, even on land that's what most people were trained to look for and home in on.  This was the whole reason for illumination rounds during night battles.  

The next point is the search lights themselves.  We aren't talking hand held units we are talking Second World War-era searchlights include models manufactured by General Electric and by the Sperry Company. These were mostly of 60 inch (152.4 cm) diameter with rhodium plated parabolic mirror, reflecting a carbon arc discharge. Peak output was 800,000,000 candela. It was powered by a 15 kW generator and had an effective beam visibility of 28 to 35 miles (45 to 56 km) in clear low humidity.

They are beams of highly focused light that were designed and made so that they were used to spot a enemy ship, lock onto them and allow the batteries to engage.  Trust me, it's not impossible to model as most of the ships HAVE their searchlights already mounted in game.  It would be just attaching the right candela to them for their light distances.  There are also aircraft dropped flares that can be used as well.  Mid to late war there were night fighters and bombers equipped with radar sets.  So yes I do think it would open up a interesting and fun aspect to the game.  I was trying to leave the mission alone that was done earlier, and I would hope that this could be done in such a way as to give people a new challenge to the game.  Shifting the way things play out. 

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On 4/10/2020 at 3:46 PM, Crucis said:

I don't like the idea of flares or search lights.  As I've said multiple times since WoWS went live, what I'd like to see is a simple version of night battles where night battles were largely the same as cyclones, just with a  dark sky and for the entire battle.  Limit max detection range to 8 or 12 km.  Increasing the max detection range to 12 km would nullify the ability of a team with radar to effectively open water stealth fire, and make radar only useful for detecting concealed DDs.  Hydro would function as normal.

This would make development of night battles as a battle mode vastly simpler, and IMO would make playing it simpler for players as well.  There wouldn't be a need for new mechanics and gimmicks.

I like the idea, but I also tend to play medium to close range ships.  Long range ships like Zao, Molotov, etc would not fair so well.

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49 minutes ago, CaptainKaitoGhost said:

I like the idea, but I also tend to play medium to close range ships.  Long range ships like Zao, Molotov, etc would not fair so well.

Well, in real life, night battles were like that.  Night battles were all short range brawls, up until radar.  But radar in real life in WW2 isn't like radar in this game.  IRL, nearly all USN ships mounted radar.  But not all navies mounted radar so quickly.  And those that had radar on their ships had a significant advantage in night battles.

Another thing that I've noted from cyclone battles is that cruiser players don't seem to have the imagination or  ability to think outside the box on how to make themselves useful in those situations.  All they seem capable of seeing is that they can't come within 8 km of the enemy without being blown out of the water vs a BB.  They don't see the option of watching for BB team mates engaging an enemy BB's port side (with that enemy BB returning fire), and then engaging the enemy BB on his unengaged side away from his main guns, while said enemy BB is busy.

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On 4/13/2020 at 9:48 PM, Crucis said:

Well, in real life, night battles were like that.  Night battles were all short range brawls, up until radar.  But radar in real life in WW2 isn't like radar in this game.  IRL, nearly all USN ships mounted radar.  But not all navies mounted radar so quickly.  And those that had radar on their ships had a significant advantage in night battles.

Another thing that I've noted from cyclone battles is that cruiser players don't seem to have the imagination or  ability to think outside the box on how to make themselves useful in those situations.  All they seem capable of seeing is that they can't come within 8 km of the enemy without being blown out of the water vs a BB.  They don't see the option of watching for BB team mates engaging an enemy BB's port side (with that enemy BB returning fire), and then engaging the enemy BB on his unengaged side away from his main guns, while said enemy BB is busy.

Well one thing that can help in the noticing situation would be that the flash of the guns should be able to be spotted from a fair distance off.  Which they could do something like shells being fired from smoke.

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On 4/10/2020 at 2:33 PM, MaxMcKay said:

I would love to see a true night fight in the game.  Where it truly is dark, a new moon out on the sea.  So that it's a choice of risking the search lights to look for a enemy ship, or hydro/radar.  Or flares dropped from planes to illuminate a target to attack.  There are countless possibilities that could be used in this type of environment.  Doing night battles this way would give players another mode of game style that can be used on maps.  Also for those that are sensitive to the search lights glare, we could use a filter to take down some of the glare or allow players to use colored lights that would bother them less.

 

Was thinking this over for a bit.  I do hope this could be done soon as it would be truly fun to try to get these types of cat and mouse games going.

If you want it done soon … put on a pair of sunglasses and Voila!

WG has bigger fish to gut and fry 

Edited by Commander_367

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13 hours ago, MaxMcKay said:

Well one thing that can help in the noticing situation would be that the flash of the guns should be able to be spotted from a fair distance off.  Which they could do something like shells being fired from smoke.

The thing is that it might all depend on how gun bloom was handled in night battles.  If it was exactly the same as for cyclones, the gun bloom would be no greater than the max detection range.  But they could also allow max gun bloom range to be normal, in which case, you'd have a situation where ships would be very difficult to detect while not under a gun bloom penalty, but once they started firing their guns, they'd get a LOT easier to see.  I don't know if this would be a good thing or not, but it could work out.

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