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Thoughts on the addon that allows players to detect enemy ships direction or engine gear?

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The little Green, Yellow or Red light that hovers above the targeted ship that tells if said player is advancing, reversing...

Seem fair or a cheat?

 

Granted I use no addons, but this really seems like a cheat.  I know many use it... Should it be allowed in the game?

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This has been around for years, I can see why some might say that, and on the other side some may say well with our relatively low res graphics compared to real world and especially someone with a potato PC that has to run at low gfx settings it can be really difficult to tell particularly headon...

We all also get real time updates on the headings of ships we can't see ... that are 100% accurate... 

I dunno... i used it once upon a time, haven''t bothered this time around.

 

 

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You can usually tell the direction and speed of a ship by looking at the smoke from the stacks.  This light doesn't sound much different.

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Anything that gives you information a player using the normal unmodified client does not get that impacts your gameplay and that of others is, by definition, cheating.  I know a lot of modders will say it isn't, because they want that information and don't want it known as cheating, but that does not change the fact that a person with this mod knows instantly and without chance of error if someone is backing up or going forwards, while a person with only the normal client has to spend time observing the target and, even then, if the aspect is wrong, may not be able to get that information.

 

My own two cents.

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7 minutes ago, CaptainKaitoGhost said:

You can usually tell the direction and speed of a ship by looking at the smoke from the stacks.  This light doesn't sound much different.

No you can't. A Moskva 18k away nose in is very tough to hit, trust me.

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8 minutes ago, Jakob_Knight said:

Anything that gives you information a player using the normal unmodified client does not get that impacts your gameplay and that of others is, by definition, cheating.  I know a lot of modders will say it isn't, because they want that information and don't want it known as cheating, but that does not change the fact that a person with this mod knows instantly and without chance of error if someone is backing up or going forwards, while a person with only the normal client has to spend time observing the target and, even then, if the aspect is wrong, may not be able to get that information.

 

My own two cents.

My feeling as well. I hope some of our esteemed great players chime in and respond with their feelings.

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yeah, I'd call it unsportsmanlike, but people use it and WG seems to be fine with it. Also not a fan of the angling one, either. Both of these subtract from literally the only skill you have to have in this game; gunnery.

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I think the stoplight is just a clearer representation of the smoke plume and doesn't give any additional information... it just makes existing information easier to see. 

That being said it's not that useful unless a ship is bow in or bow out and the actual smoke plume is hard to see. Otherwise it lags the ship's movement a little bit, just like the plume.

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15 minutes ago, CaptainKaitoGhost said:

You can usually tell the direction and speed of a ship by looking at the smoke from the stacks.  This light doesn't sound much different.

But when ships are bow in you cant see the smoke very well even ships broad side if not moving fast it's hard to pick the up change of direction by smoke . It takes a while to see it with this its right away .

Edited by clammboy

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6 minutes ago, Jakob_Knight said:

Anything that gives you information a player using the normal unmodified client does not get that impacts your gameplay and that of others is, by definition, cheating.  I know a lot of modders will say it isn't, because they want that information and don't want it known as cheating...

No, they'll say it because, within the confines of their own game, WG defines cheating, not you, (I assume it's your definition, because Merriam-Webster defines it as "to violate rules dishonestly") and this mod is not against the rules.

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I was always very much against it and I think it should be included in the regular options.

 It is very easy to use and I will use it because I can.

It does give you a slight advantage.

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15 minutes ago, pikohan said:

I think the stoplight is just a clearer representation of the smoke plume and doesn't give any additional information... it just makes existing information easier to see. 

That being said it's not that useful unless a ship is bow in or bow out and the actual smoke plume is hard to see. Otherwise it lags the ship's movement a little bit, just like the plume.

disagree 100% and not the point.

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14 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

No, they'll say it because, within the confines of their own game, WG defines cheating, not you, (I assume it's your definition, because Merriam-Webster defines it as "to violate rules dishonestly") and this mod is not against the rules.

 

And in the confines of this thread, where the OP asked if it seemed like a cheat, I define what seems like cheating to me, not WG.  Just because WG accepts cheating in its game does not mean it is not cheating in the viewpoint of those who can articulate why they believe it is so.  And, until a concise and logical explanation as to why it is not cheating when it clearly gives the player using it information that directly affects game results that is not available to a player who does not mod their game, I stand by my statement that it does, indeed, seem like cheating.

 

More, the facts conform to it being defined as cheating than defined as what is not.  To seek to modify your client so you are not competing with the same handicaps and limitations that are expected of others who play the game to face is, indeed, dishonest. 

Edited by Jakob_Knight
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16 minutes ago, pikohan said:

I think the stoplight is just a clearer representation of the smoke plume and doesn't give any additional information... it just makes existing information easier to see. 

That being said it's not that useful unless a ship is bow in or bow out and the actual smoke plume is hard to see. Otherwise it lags the ship's movement a little bit, just like the plume.

space camos smoke stays the same....lights indicate change.

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20 minutes ago, Joyous_Vibes said:

No you can't. A Moskva 18k away nose in is very tough to hit, trust me.

That is what makes it useful. When ships are nose or stern to you. Using the smoke is pretty much worthless. Smoke can also be difficult to see if the target is on fire, covered in shell splashes or otherwise difficult to see.

 

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6 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

That is what makes it useful. When ships are nose or stern to you. Using the smoke is pretty much worthless. Smoke can also be difficult to see if the target is on fire, covered in shell splashes or otherwise difficult to see.

 

I don't think you understand the reason of my post. I realize how it is useful.

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57 minutes ago, Joyous_Vibes said:

Granted I use no addons, but this really seems like a cheat.  I know many use it... Should it be allowed in the game?

If you don't use the legal mods, the only cheating that happens, is you, cheating yourself.

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21 minutes ago, Joyous_Vibes said:

I don't think you understand the reason of my post. I realize how it is useful.

That was more in response to those that said it wasn't useful, that it only told you what reading the smoke would. Which is true. Unlike reading the smoke it only gives you a relative direction of travel--no indication of speed. That info therefore is only highlighting info that is already available to a player (like the relative angle indicator) that may not be discernible to those with lesser graphic capabilities. Therefore is not cheating. If there was a mod that gave actual speeds of a target, or showed the needed lead for the guns, that would be cheating because that info is not available to someone with the basic game. 

At one time there was an add-on that allowed you to see (on the mini-map) where your shells should land . Very limited accuracy but useful for shooting ships in smoke or ones that just went dark. Many thought that was cheating up until WG incorporated it into the basic game.

Edited by Sabot_100

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     I use the stop light.  It gives me a clear advantage.  I don't have to wait 5 or 10 seconds to see if a near bow on target is advancing or retarding.  If I'm in a BB with a 30 sec reload time that's a wasted salvo without that info.  And if the target is nearly dead it must be killed ASAP.  Without the stop light it has a better chance of sliming its way around a corner to escape.

     It's the only mod that gives that sort of advantage I think.  The angle thing I don't use 'cause I can estimate that fine.

     The other clear advantage is the Nomogram Modern sight.  Hitting the target with a minimalist display.  Just awesome.  Though some still swear by the static sights so to each his own.  NM sights helps me a lot, but I don't think that's in the same box as the stop light mod.

     As to cheating.  I hear that card counting is cheating in Vegas.  I've no idea how it's done.  But the player is using the same information that others have and can't apply.   I don't think that is cheating.  Just taking advantage of available info.

     Same with the stop light mod.  It's available to all through the WG mod pack.  I just think they should make it an integral feature in the settings display if wanted without the need for the mod.  It seems the stop light is a perk for those who read the forums and are aware of it.

Edited by slokill_1

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It is not cheating to use something that the creators of the game has said is allowed.  Period.  Not even sure why that is a question.  It would be like asking if taking priority target is cheating......

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22 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

If you don't use the legal mods, the only cheating that happens, is you, cheating yourself.

Ah... The NASCAR approach.

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1 hour ago, Joyous_Vibes said:

The little Green, Yellow or Red light that hovers above the targeted ship that tells if said player is advancing, reversing...

Seem fair or a cheat?

 

Granted I use no addons, but this really seems like a cheat.  I know many use it... Should it be allowed in the game?

There is a mod for that but its a cheat.

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7 minutes ago, slokill_1 said:

     I use the stop light.  It gives me a clear advantage.  I don't have to wait 5 or 10 seconds to see if a near bow on target is advancing or retarding. 

Is this fair? I am not knocking you or those that use it. I could use it....

Should this be in the game?

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1 hour ago, Joyous_Vibes said:

The little Green, Yellow or Red light that hovers above the targeted ship that tells if said player is advancing, reversing...

Seem fair or a cheat?

 

Granted I use no addons, but this really seems like a cheat.  I know many use it... Should it be allowed in the game?

Its called Running Lights and it absolutely should be classified as a cheat and be banned.

But as of now, it is legal and many players use it including myself because not doing so puts us at a disadvantage against those who does.

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