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Snargfargle

But it's Wegulation!

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The government can be a blithering idiot at times. US researchers began creating coronavirus antibody tests in January but the approval was delayed for weeks because the government stipulated that all submissions be sent on a CD-ROM via the mail. Might as well require the data to be transcribed to vellum and delivered via Pony Express.

 

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It's time your government left the 90s and entered the 2000s.

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16 minutes ago, Lert said:

It's time your government left the 90s and entered the 2000s.

It's amazing though how fast technology has progressed. When I was in grad school my first research data was punched into cards, which then had to be carried to the computer building for loading onto the mainframe's tape drive.

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After 9-11 a committee was formed to set up procedures for the FAA to follow should they ever need to shut down U.S. airspace again but something rare happened.   No procedures were recommended because the committee determined that establishing procedures for the FAA to follow would only hinder their ability to shut down the air space. 

Edited by Klaatu_Nicto

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19 minutes ago, Klaatu_Nicto said:

After 9-11 a committee was formed to set up procedures for the FAA to follow should they ever need to shut down U.S. airspace again but something rare happened.   No procedures were recommended because the committee determined that establishing procedures for the FAA to follow would only hinder their ability to shut down the air space. 

This is the problem when government over-regulates -- it loses the ability to quickly adapt when needed. You don't have to codify everything into a regulation; let people use their common sense.  

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3 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

The government can be a blithering idiot at times. US researchers began creating coronavirus antibody tests in January but the approval was delayed for weeks because the government stipulated that all submissions be sent on a CD-ROM via the mail. Might as well require the data to be transcribed to vellum and delivered via Pony Express.

 

 

2 hours ago, Lert said:

It's time your government left the 90s and entered the 2000s.

Could it be possible  they are sending the data on disks so that they can be security checked, then loaded into a supercomputer for processing?

( Not all systems are or should be connected to the internet for many good reasons. Such as denying remote hackers access to tamper with the systems.)

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6 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

 

Could it be possible  they are sending the data on disks so that they can be security checked, then loaded into a supercomputer for processing?

( Not all systems are or should be connected to the internet for many good reasons. Such as denying remote hackers access to tamper with the systems.)

Just use a sheep dip machine. You can still have a standalone dirty machine connected to the internet that all the researches can send the data to (it will have AV software on it). This can then be burned onto CD-R and put through a standalone sheep dip machine (to check for malware - this usually has an alternative AV product on it) and then put onto the main Government system (That can have another AV programme lol). :Smile_honoring:

Edited by _WaveRider_

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3 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

The government can be a blithering idiot at times. US researchers began creating coronavirus antibody tests in January but the approval was delayed for weeks because the government stipulated that all submissions be sent on a CD-ROM via the mail. Might as well require the data to be transcribed to vellum and delivered via Pony Express.

Why didn't they just ask the British pharmaceutical company that (asked for a patent back in 2016 &) got approval for a caronavirus vaccine back in November 2019 for a sample of their's?

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41 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

 

Could it be possible  they are sending the data on disks so that they can be security checked, then loaded into a supercomputer for processing?

( Not all systems are or should be connected to the internet for many good reasons. Such as denying remote hackers access to tamper with the systems.)

There are good security reasons for isolating some government and military computer systems. However, the article I read seemed to imply that this was just an out-dated regulation that the bureaucracy was adhering to long after it made no sense. 

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46 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

There are good security reasons for isolating some government and military computer systems. However, the article I read seemed to imply that this was just an out-dated regulation that the bureaucracy was adhering to long after it made no sense. 

Let’s avoid saying anything too political here, but I can say I have seen numerous ways the current US leadership has actually been cutting down on the out of date or inefficient procedures (At least within the medical field) to try and get this virus crushed ASAP. So either the article you read is incorrect or else is politically twisted. Because I have heard from far too many different sources that the lab processes have been pushed into greater efficiency instead of less so.

And if you get info from several news sources, even ones that typically contradict the other news networks but still agree on some facts then chances are they are reliable. Plus I also know people in the medical fields that can confirm things are moving along better than they would have been. To put things in perspective Ebola is finally pretty much crushed with only minor flare ups possible and taken into account. Now look how many years that has taken while meanwhile they are setting plans in motion to have Covid-19 stopped within months or longer estimates are within a year or 2. Considering that includes making certain the bugs are all worked out the the vaccines that will be impressive. Then again Ebola was always relatively confined and not quite as contagious as COVID-19 so I have a feeling they were not quite as motivated as they are now.

So we are likely back to my original theory that if the data is being moved in physical disks it’s likely for better security and could actually be a faster method. Because just imagine if the data were to be corrupted in even the slightest manner if transmitted electronically? Another consideration is when dealing with things such as DNA, RNA, etc. The data files can be massive and difficult to send over the internet. Some of those disks on the other hand could quickly download the data, store it, and then pretty much immediately upon arriving be have it uploaded into a Supercomputer. Some labs or some computer companies I know have incredible data transfer speeds at least within their systems, buildings or campuses. It’s when data has to be moved in bulk across the internet and hitting comparatively low powered relay nodes that they get slowed up. And chances are the article you read confused disks for CD-Rom, which can be easy enough to do if the writer did not realize the difference. 

And even if the disks were shipped by mail not all mail delivery is the same, you can do some methods of medical shipping where they have to rush things from point A to point B in less time than overnight shipping. Like some medical samples for example will not keep long at all so it’s critical they get to the lab 5 minutes ago to coin the phrase.

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4 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

let people use their common sense.

That's scarier than the virus.

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4 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

This is the problem when government over-regulates -- it loses the ability to quickly adapt when needed. You don't have to codify everything into a regulation; let people use their common sense.  

The problem with this is there will always be those 'in charge' who can't chew bacon without procedures.    In my divisions I always made sure these officers and chiefs were sent to areas where they could cause the least damage.

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7 hours ago, Lert said:

It's time your government left the 90s and entered the 2000s.

It's funny you mention that...  Maybe go even further back to the 70s-80s..  Some states (NJ is one I think) have put out the call for COBOL programmers to help fix their systems.  :cap_fainting:

B

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

I have seen numerous ways the current US leadership has actually been cutting down on the out of date or inefficient procedures 

No, the article was correct, and about as unbiased as reporting gets nowadays, merely showing one of the hurdles that the medical researchers had to overcome with the FDA bureaucracy. This is one reason why it used to take months or even years to get anything done where the FDA was concerned. And, yes, the administration took note of this problem with the bureaucracy and vowed to change this and other outdated practices.

The regulation specified CD-ROM because this was the storage and transfer media that was used in the 90s when it was written. The problem nowadays, of course, is that almost no computers come with CD-RW drives. With the advent of the Internet and flash drives CD-ROMs have gone the way of the floppy disk. The researchers probably had to go buy an external CD/DVD-RW drive and hunt up a supply of CD-RW disks to abide by the regulation, which slowed the application process considerably.

 

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45 minutes ago, bassmasta76 said:

It's funny you mention that...  Maybe go even further back to the 70s-80s..  Some states (NJ is one I think) have put out the call for COBOL programmers to help fix their systems.  :cap_fainting:

Government bureaucracies can be very slow to change if what they currently have is "good enough."

I wrote a PC database application for a university research museum back in the 1980s and they used it for the next 25 years. I made it easy to export the data in comma-delineated ASCII format but they never bothered to transfer their database over to a newer system because the turn-key application that I had written worked well enough.

Before I wrote my application the data had to be been punched into cards and carried over to the mainframe where it was transferred to magnetic tape. If a researcher then wanted to query the database he had to submit a form to the computing center, who would put the query into the queue and then eventually deliver back a large stack of printouts. This process could take up to two weeks.

I spend over a year writing my application as I had to learn first how to use PCs, then how to program them, and finally how to get the data off the mainframe and into a format that could be used by the PC. As it turned out, I was actually one of the first people to have done all this and when I presented a paper about it at a scientific convention I ended up being assigned to a committee for information retrieval, even though I was a field researcher and not an IT specialist at all. 

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15 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

No, the article was correct, and about as unbiased as reporting gets nowadays, merely showing one of the hurdles that the medical researchers had to overcome with the FDA bureaucracy. This is one reason why it used to take months or even years to get anything done where the FDA was concerned. And, yes, the administration took note of this problem with the bureaucracy and vowed to change this and other outdated practices.

The regulation specified CD-ROM because this was the storage and transfer media that was used in the 90s when it was written. The problem nowadays, of course, is that almost no computers come with CD-RW drives. With the advent of the Internet and flash drives CD-ROMs have gone the way of the floppy disk. The researchers probably had to go buy an external CD/DVD-RW drive and hunt up a supply of CD-RW disks to abide by the regulation, which slowed the application process considerably.

 

The FDA typically has to be absolutely certain drugs will not cause mass death prior to use. However there can be and needs to be allowances for accelerated testing where if you have some drugs you are very confident can and will work to cure a patient, and if the patient will be dead if the drug or procedure is not used, and the patient or in some cases the loved ones of the patient agree to try it, then it should be used.

Like a I forget which state in the US has laws that malpractice suits are illegal, and instead medical personnel will turn in non reputable practices themselves for lawful prosecution. Anyway think it was somebody in my extended family that had somebody with some rare infection or something, they ended up hospitalized in that state and were quickly cured because the doctors there knew a medication worked extremely well for treating that lenses, but FDA was taking their grand old time getting it approved. And the guy was told if he had been in care of another state he would have likely died because they would have been unable to risk using it.

But there does need to be a balance of course as you don’t want to be reckless of course, but excessive caution can become a bad thing as well.

As far as the CD-Rom, lol I remember even years ago doctors already using non CD-Rom methods  to send medical info. So while the law may say one thing that does not has not been bent nicely. Might just be the case of an old law not having been officially changed or abolished yet. Like in the UK I was watching a hilarious YouTube vid on a guy talking about some crazy laws that have long been forgotten, but apparently are technically in place as no official abolishment has taken place. Like for example one of the UK laws states you cannot act suspiciously with a salmon!? ( Yes the fish Salmon) And the others they listed were just as crazy, but were written decades or centuries ago.

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3 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

And the others they listed were just as crazy, but were written decades or centuries ago.

I think that in this state you technically are not supposed to hunt ducks while riding a mule.

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1 minute ago, Snargfargle said:

I think that in this state you technically are not supposed to hunt ducks while riding a mule.

So they ride ATVs instead lol.

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5 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

So they ride ATVs instead lol.

I actually saw a mule the other day. They are rare around here but one guys still breeds them to pull a covered wagon in parades. Apparently there are still 28,000 mules in America though, so you could probably find one if you wanted to do some illegal duck hunting.

Edited by Snargfargle

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