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Willy55_1955

Why is WG forcing CVs on Clan Battles? (updated)

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So if the MM for Clan Battles matches CV teams with CV teams, I see no issue. If the MM will match CV teams with BB teams, and you have a clan not particulary strong in CV talent (pariculary T10), then that BB clan team is at an immediate disadvantage in the spotting game and puts their DDs at immediate risk. It is almost as though WG is trying for force the use of CVs into Clan Battles. The impact of a CV is so great on a small 7v7 battle it, I feel, will almost always skew the game in the CV team's favor.

Searaptor just did a video today that includes his thoughts of includuing CVs in CB that kind of mirrors my thoughts: 

Comments?

Edited by Willy55_1955
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How is that different if you have a clan that isn't strong in BB talent, or doesn't have a good stealthy DD player?

The second issue, of whether a CV is overpowering in a 7v7 is a valid one but the only way to tell is to run a season and see. People who dislike them will always claim CVs are overpowered, but the only way for wargaming to tell if it is is to put them out there and see. 

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4 minutes ago, 0h_Kay_B00M3R said:

I don't think they are forcing anything besides the choice . the question is why cant we have a cv and a bb . 

^I agree. I think the either/or is not a good idea. I'm guessing it is an attempt to give clans that don't have a CV player the option to run something else but I don't think it will work well. I suspect in most situations you are better off with a CV. It isn't as good a damage producer but the spotting and spot injection of damage when needed probably outweighs the raw damage a BB brings.  

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26 minutes ago, Willy55_1955 said:

So if the MM for Clan Battles matches CV teams with CV teams, I see no issue. If the MM will match CV teams with BB teams, and you have a clan not particulary strong in CV talent (pariculary T10), then that BB clan team is at an immediate disadvantage in the spotting game and puts their DDs at immediate risk. It is almost as though WG is trying for force the use of CVs into Clan Battles. The impact of a CV is so great on a small 7v7 battle it, I feel, will almost always skew the game in the CV team's favor.

Comments?

What if your clan doesn't have particularly good BB talent?   

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33 minutes ago, iRA6E said:

What if your clan doesn't have particularly good BB talent?   

Then you're in a bad clan and deserve to lose?

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50 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

How is that different if you have a clan that isn't strong in BB talent, or doesn't have a good stealthy DD player?

The second issue, of whether a CV is overpowering in a 7v7 is a valid one but the only way to tell is to run a season and see. People who dislike them will always claim CVs are overpowered, but the only way for wargaming to tell if it is is to put them out there and see. 

I have a T10 CV but I dislike playing the CV line in general.

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48 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

How is that different if you have a clan that isn't strong in BB talent, or doesn't have a good stealthy DD player?

 

35 minutes ago, iRA6E said:

What if your clan doesn't have particularly good BB talent?   

Having a bad BB/DD/Cruiser player is a disavantage, but not game breaking, there are tools and ships that allow you to play around that. A CV is more influential than any other ship, so having a bad player is game breaking. 

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4 minutes ago, legozer said:

Then you're in a bad clan and deserve to lose?

So same rules don't apply to a Clan with crappy CV player?    Inquiring minds want to know?   

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I have been trying for three days to get this question answered @Hapa_Fodder Good Lord cant anyone answer this simple question. (With aircraft carriers now being able to take part in Clan Battles, we've introduced a new restriction for the current season: a Clan must make a choice between entering a battle with one aircraft carrier or one battleship.) My question is this: If you choose a BB will you only play against other clans with a BB or is there a chance your clan will be pitied vs a clan with a CV?

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37 minutes ago, iRA6E said:

What if your clan doesn't have particularly good BB talent?   

That is a legitimate question. I would reply the CV players as a whole are a niche group. That being said I would like to think most clans have at least 1 good BB player. Being that CV players (regular players) are a small minority of the player base (imho) why give them so much influence in a 7v7 matchup? Again, I have no problem with CVs if the MM matched teams with CVs with other teams with CVs.

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1 hour ago, iRA6E said:

So same rules don't apply to a Clan with crappy CV player?    Inquiring minds want to know?   

So why force that crappy CV player into playing in CV for the sake of having a CV?

Edited by Willy55_1955

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5 minutes ago, Willy55_1955 said:

So why force that crappy CV player into playing in CB for the sake of having a CV?

Same reason you would force a crappy player in any ship?   #cvlivesmatter

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5 minutes ago, CaptinKen said:

My question is this: If you choose a BB will you only play against other clans with a BB or is there a chance your clan will be pitied vs a clan with a CV?

I can almost guarantee that you will not be segregated by team makeup.  Pick a CV or a BB, and see what you get matched against.

I think an average player in a CV would be of more use to their team than an average player in a BB.  If nothing else, a CV at least spots stuff and if he screws up, he can F out and try again.  If the BB screws up, not really much he can do and he provided little/no benefit to the team.

I have a feeling you will see a ton of clans run a CV with a dedicated long range heavy cruiser taking the BB roll.  Something like a Hindenburg, Stalin, Moskva, something like that.  I will also say that in a CV only versus BB only matchup, the CVs will probably win a decent percentage of the time.

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sunk cost fallacy.

this is the number 1 reason wargaming will not let up on their cv product regardless of it being so poorly balanced and mechanically implemented.

There will be no flanking, nothing intelligent is allowed this season, you must ball up and hope cv doesnt click on you.

DD will be scarce because balance, BB is dead content, this is just going to be cv and stalins, what a fun prospect for a clan battles season.

 

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12 minutes ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

I can almost guarantee that you will not be segregated by team makeup.  Pick a CV or a BB, and see what you get matched against.

I think an average player in a CV would be of more use to their team than an average player in a BB.  If nothing else, a CV at least spots stuff and if he screws up, he can F out and try again.  If the BB screws up, not really much he can do and he provided little/no benefit to the team.

I have a feeling you will see a ton of clans run a CV with a dedicated long range heavy cruiser taking the BB roll.  Something like a Hindenburg, Stalin, Moskva, something like that.  I will also say that in a CV only versus BB only matchup, the CVs will probably win a decent percentage of the time.

Thank you I think your correct. CVs in clan battles will also stop all the camping behind islands and create a more open water type of play.

 

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32 minutes ago, Xlap said:

 

Having a bad BB/DD/Cruiser player is a disavantage, but not game breaking, there are tools and ships that allow you to play around that. A CV is more influential than any other ship, so having a bad player is game breaking. 

If you have only one BB, having a bad one will hurt you. You normally won't have only one cruiser, but if it is your only radar cruiser or something like that and he sucks, it is going to hurt you. IT's no different with any place where you have no redundancy. It's a matter of single-point failure, not a class matter. 

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8 minutes ago, CaptinKen said:

Thank you I think your correct. CVs in clan battles will also stop all the camping behind islands and create a more open water type of play.

 

I agree as well. I am interested to see how it works out. 

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Like it or Not CV's are in the game to stay, although not popular with the entire community, there are still CV mains and it's only fair they should be allowed to participate in Clan Battles with their ship of choice since everyone else gets to as well.

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25 minutes ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

I can almost guarantee that you will not be segregated by team makeup.  Pick a CV or a BB, and see what you get matched against.

I think an average player in a CV would be of more use to their team than an average player in a BB.  If nothing else, a CV at least spots stuff and if he screws up, he can F out and try again.  If the BB screws up, not really much he can do and he provided little/no benefit to the team.

I have a feeling you will see a ton of clans run a CV with a dedicated long range heavy cruiser taking the BB roll.  Something like a Hindenburg, Stalin, Moskva, something like that.  I will also say that in a CV only versus BB only matchup, the CVs will probably win a decent percentage of the time.

I agree. Player skill being equal, a CV brings much more team utility than a BB does. Damage will tend to be lower, but I suspect the utility (spotting and the ability to finish cripples) will heavily make up for it. 

It will also be interesting to see if Puerto Ricos start showing up in the mix to help with the anti-CV work. 

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8 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

If you have only one BB, having a bad one will hurt you. You normally won't have only one cruiser, but if it is your only radar cruiser or something like that and he sucks, it is going to hurt you. IT's no different with any place where you have no redundancy. It's a matter of single-point failure, not a class matter. 

This is the word, redundancy. Its a disavantage but its possible to work around that disavantage. 

 

Some cruisers can do some tanking and have good alpha (Stalingrad/Moskva/PR/Hindy) and can take part of BB role. Same thing with a radar cruisers, you have DDs, Hydro/RPF skill which allows you to go around the lack of DD. If you have a bad DD you have radar/hydro/rpf, you have cruisers like minotaur or zao that ave good concealment and lots of torps. 

 

The only ships that you cant work around is a CV. No other ship can take the CV role. 

 

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What would you tell a team who said that they were doing poorly in clan battles and didn't have a strong DD player?

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37 minutes ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

sunk cost fallacy.

this is the number 1 reason wargaming will not let up on their cv product regardless of it being so poorly balanced and mechanically implemented.

There will be no flanking, nothing intelligent is allowed this season, you must ball up and hope cv doesnt click on you.

DD will be scarce because balance, BB is dead content, this is just going to be cv and stalins, what a fun prospect for a clan battles season.

 

And because cvs are in CBS, now the meta is the same as randoms, so no respecs needed. It's awesome!! 

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