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Why waiting times at low tiers are so high???

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server just came up... and mebbe most won't even login until after 9...

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39 minutes ago, franz_von_goltz said:

Long times, 1x1 battles, etc... Any reason?

Because you are playing on an off time when the server just came back.  Calm down

 

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4 minutes ago, Admiral_Andy said:

Because you are playing on an off time when the server just came back.  Calm down

 

You would be amazed how many Aussies play on NA.

 

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55 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Low tiers have been ignored since 2018... Nothing new there...

It's a pity, if BBs are quite similar, the other ships are nice, CA with plenty guns, light torp boats, etc... WG should develop those tiers.
After, yes... rewards are low, buy flags in the armory, is impossible.
To play, those tiers are not specifically more or less difficult than the higher ones.
It changes from my usual CV playing.
T3 BBs vs TIV CVs is no play, I simply ignore the planes, they don't do that much damage, problem is when the 2 CVs are focusing on one BB.
There are too many battles with 2x2CVs in 7x7ships.
2x2 is fine when 12x12.

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3 minutes ago, franz_von_goltz said:

It's a pity, if BBs are quite similar, the other ships are nice, CA with plenty guns, light torp boats, etc... WG should develop those tiers.
After, yes... rewards are low, buy flags in the armory, is impossible.
To play, those tiers are not specifically more or less difficult than the higher ones.
It changes from my usual CV playing.
T3 BBs vs TIV CVs is no play, I simply ignore the planes, they don't do that much damage, problem is when the 2 CVs are focusing on one BB.
There are too many battles with 2x2CVs in 7x7ships.
2x2 is fine when 12x12.

I don;t think after the current bad conditions at high tiers. I dont think we want WG messing around at low tiers with the current direction and bad policies in place...

I say this like I say to anyone who proposes changes to anything... Be careful what you ask for you'll probably not like the end result... :Smile_smile:

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1 hour ago, franz_von_goltz said:

Long times, 1x1 battles, etc... Any reason?

Aloha,

It's purely because of the server pop right now. As the server pop increases you'll see a decrease in que time. We are currently at only 5k.

Mahalo,

-Hapa

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1 minute ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Aloha,

It's purely because of the server pop right now. As the server pop increases you'll see a decrease in que time. We are currently at only 5k.

Mahalo,

-Hapa

Props for responding to the OP's post!  I'm seeing 5559 players in at the moment.

But just wanted to know if the OP just meant for this situation now, or regularly?   IMO, the low tiers seem to be low on population because missions, campaigns, etc. don't reward the low tiers and indirectly provide incentive to move up to at least tier 5 and higher.

 

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1 hour ago, franz_von_goltz said:

Long times, 1x1 battles, etc... Any reason?

Fewer players are playing at low tiers. Someone recently posted a nice chart that showed how the player-base has migrated up the tiers over the years. Now, the most-played tiers are VIII-X. I sometimes find it fun to take out low-tier ships late at night in hopes of getting a 1v1 battle.

Edited by Snargfargle

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2 minutes ago, Altwar said:

Props for responding to the OP's post!  I'm seeing 5559 players in at the moment.

But just wanted to know if the OP just meant for this situation now, or regularly?   IMO, the low tiers seem to be low on population because missions, campaigns, etc. don't reward the low tiers and indirectly provide incentive to move up to at least tier 5 and higher.

 

Aloha,

Well most of our population resides from tier V and up in general. And though some will claim this is purely because of OUR doing. We have had missions in the past that were from Tier III and up and Tier III-V ships were used to complete these missions in only a VERY small portion of the population so most missions are geared to Tier V-X.

Mahalo,

-Hapa

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56 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Aloha,

Well most of our population resides from tier V and up in general. And though some will claim this is purely because of OUR doing. We have had missions in the past that were from Tier III and up and Tier III-V ships were used to complete these missions in only a VERY small portion of the population so most missions are geared to Tier V-X.

Mahalo,

-Hapa

And that was way back 2015-2016.

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1 minute ago, RyuuohD_NA said:

And that was way back 2015-2016.

This is not true. We had missions all the way up to mid 2018 that were tier IV and up. And currently still have the "Science of Victory" campaign available to tier III and up. Players should be focused more on learning the mechanics of the game and in general learning a ship class than worrying about missions at lower tiers. Almost all requests from players that want lower tier missions are from experienced players. And if we have a lot of experienced players flooding the lower tiers to complete "easy" missions this will cause a substantial miss match of skill in battles.

-Hapa

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27 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Tier III-V ships were used to complete these missions in only a VERY small portion of the population

Part of that is the mission design. The last time I recall years back tier IV was the minimum you could try and use tier 4 ships - but it was in no way practical. Back then you wanted tier 6 or 7 to be able to do missions at a decent pace even if you were average - though obviously higher than that was better. Tier 5 was doable but that much harder. Now most of the missions are designed yeah you can use tier 5 - but generally your going to want to use top tiers to get it down if your short on time, skill, or both. Things have been scaled up namely the last really 3 years at this point in requirements pushing higher tier ships more and more to complete them. 

Wargaming keeps moving the bar to get things. 750k FXP - which was more inline with store pricing and is what it takes to get a tier 9 basically becomes 1 million. Missions and directives get harder and harder for less and less rewards. 

Will changing directive and mission requirements alone bring players back down, no. Because there are other factors.

  1. CV's are incredibly broken at the tier because of lack of AA
  2. income at the low tiers is pretty bad, well enough to get a player to the next tier but not enough like 5-6 where it can keep players
  3. ship performance is more inconsistent with obvious stand outs that more dominate things
  4. Ship performance in general is lacking - it takes forever to get anywhere, gun range is limited, DD's lack the stealth they start to get at 5 to be useful, Cruisers depend on cruiser and similar with BB's as to what works despite the differences in tech. 

Look, I'm all about historical accuracy - when it does not impede gameplay. Some of the low tier maps may need to be a little smaller or we start making low tier ships a bit faster. The majority of ships from tier III-VII need better AA. A lot of the low tier ship especially the old guard of the early days could use some love. Maybe we need to give BB's at low tier some more secondary range, cruisers not called St. Louis and Charleston (and similar foreign counterparts) a bit better RoF, or access to different/more modernization's than they currently have (frankly since day 1 I've been of the opinion just like with how Tank's is you have 1 number of slots to put modernization's in, no more, no less), maybe DD's need lower spotting range or greater torp range that puts them more in line with how the line shapes out later. 

 

Is it purely Wargaming's doing - no, as general it is human nature to choose the easy pat, missions are easier in higher tier, therefore, those who can play higher tiers. It makes most players almost as predictable as the bots. And it's a 50/50 split on players not finding the tier exciting enough to play. But between mission/directive design, balance issues, income at the tiers and general gameplay - you guys aren't exactly helping things either. 

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I went through the new player experience at release, i am still working on the science of victory but only the first 5 parts include tier 4, as of part 6 it is all tier 5 and up. ( i am on part 9)

I have many lines still below tier 5 (13 not including cv's) and apart from this november charlie mission I have in my personal assignments (no idea where it came from) there is almost no reward for playing these tiers at all..

The low exp means it takes a lot of games just to get the daily containers, 2 matches yesterday in my bayern, and 8 matches in tier 3 and 4, with just 2 losses for the day...  just to get my second daily container.

So no daily mission rewards, no directive rewards, no campaign rewards, no event rewards.  oh i do get 2% exp for my research center

 

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2 hours ago, KaptainNemo_1 said:

I think it's because there are few new players coming in to populate the lower tiers.

And MOST experienced players try to avoid seal clubbing. One of the reasons WG typically has an event to start new lines at T5 instead of everybody going back to T2 and grinding from there. I noted this  years ago when for grins I dusted off my old favorite Isokaze and got into 1-3 ships per side matches. Noted it again last year when I decided to grind the German DD line (that might have been a mistake)

Then there is the 6 CV fiasco that probably soured a lot of new players on the game as they started grinding. CV players apparently enjoy seal clubbing. Supposedly there will only be 4 CVs going forward.

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I'm still on the Science of Victory as well, paused for the moment at Level 5 because I need to put in some time to re-learn the CV play (haven't touched them since the CV rework) before I can do those missions.

Meanwhile when there are directives, they are at least tier 5 and up.   It was only after feeling left out over the Indianapolis mission and missing out on much of the snowflakes event that I began pushing up the tech trees so I could take part in that as well.  Prior to that, I was trying to play to at least 10 victories in each ship I touch.  But it can be quite a wait at times for a low tier match so I've abandoned that practice.

Anyway, I remain of the opinion that while it might be preached for players to learn the mechanics of the game and each ship class, the incentive is to move up to mid tiers quickly so as to not miss out on events and missions.

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17 minutes ago, Altwar said:

I'm still on the Science of Victory as well, paused for the moment at Level 5 because I need to put in some time to re-learn the CV play (haven't touched them since the CV rework) before I can do those missions.

Once i learned we could repeat tasks to be able to get the stars to move onto the next part, i have been doing that.  At the moment I am only playing BB's, so torps, flooding, cv, dd, cruiser missions I am skipping for now.  I can come back and do all those to complete all the tasks.  Completing all the tasks I think only rewards an achievement anyways.  getting the required # of stars is the most important part.  

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2 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

This is not true. We had missions all the way up to mid 2018 that were tier IV and up. And currently still have the "Science of Victory" campaign available to tier III and up. Players should be focused more on learning the mechanics of the game and in general learning a ship class than worrying about missions at lower tiers. Almost all requests from players that want lower tier missions are from experienced players. And if we have a lot of experienced players flooding the lower tiers to complete "easy" missions this will cause a substantial miss match of skill in battles.

-Hapa

Okay.  However, most players have likely already completed the Science of Victory campaign ages ago.

I fully understand the push up to high tiers, however, why shouldn't experienced players be allowed to play and enjoy the simplicity of lower tiers, if they so choose?  Some people call it seal clubbing, but others may like the fact that it is a more straightforward style of gameplay, free from the complicated (and frustrating) mechanics such as radar and high tier carriers.

Let's not lose sight that low tier gameplay, once upon a time, had significant development put into it as well, so players should be able to enjoy it if that is what brings them joy.  Same goes for co-op.  We all understand where the revenue is, but high tiers and randoms aren't for everybody.  Why can't this game be more balanced in its focus to bring something to the table for everybody, rather than trying to push high tiers onto the masses?  

It was that way once upon a time.  It's beginning to lose its breadth of vision, sadly.

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21 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

Okay.  However, most players have likely already completed the Science of Victory campaign ages ago.

I fully understand the push up to high tiers, however, why shouldn't experienced players be allowed to play and enjoy the simplicity of lower tiers, if they so choose?  Some people call it seal clubbing, but others may like the fact that it is a more straightforward style of gameplay, free from the complicated (and frustrating) mechanics such as radar and high tier carriers.

Let's not lose sight that low tier gameplay, once upon a time, had significant development put into it as well, so players should be able to enjoy it if that is what brings them joy.  Same goes for co-op.  We all understand where the revenue is, but high tiers and randoms aren't for everybody.  Why can't this game be more balanced in its focus to bring something to the table for everybody, rather than trying to push high tiers onto the masses?  

It was that way once upon a time.  It's beginning to lose its breadth of vision, sadly.

No one is FORCING you to only play high tiers. That is on the players, this was an explanation why there are not more missions for the lower tier ships. Because the amount of content that exists for new players to get through is quite substantial believe it or not.

Adding missions to lower tier game play as I stated above would flood the lower tiers with very experienced players. Anyone can play any tier ship any time they would like.

-Hapa

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11 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

No one is FORCING you to only play high tiers. That is on the players, this was an explanation why there are not more missions for the lower tier ships. Because the amount of content that exists for new players to get through is quite substantial believe it or not.

Adding missions to lower tier game play as I stated above would flood the lower tiers with very experienced players. Anyone can play any tier ship any time they would like.

-Hapa

Understood.  But what's so wrong with experienced players at low tiers?  

We know we're not forced to play high tiers, but the game highly encourages it, more so now than ever before.  I don't personally have a problem with high tiers, but some prefer to stay low-to-mid tier for enjoyment.  All they are asking for is something fun for them to do where they don't have to scale the high tier ladder.

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13 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

No one is FORCING you to only play high tiers. That is on the players, this was an explanation why there are not more missions for the lower tier ships. Because the amount of content that exists for new players to get through is quite substantial believe it or not.

Adding missions to lower tier game play as I stated above would flood the lower tiers with very experienced players. Anyone can play any tier ship any time they would like.

-Hapa

Grinding new Pan European destroyers is so fun with double Hosho's on enemy team.

Air detection 6 km AA firing range 5.9... to 6km.....

Low detection my butt.....

 

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12 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Adding missions to lower tier game play as I stated above would flood the lower tiers with very experienced players.

Simple: add a new low tier only version of Random that you can only unlock after an experience based benchmark (E.g. unlock 2 tech tree T10s, play +1000 battles at high tier) and include that mode in some of the missions. 

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1 minute ago, Ace_04 said:

Understood.  But what's so wrong with experienced players at low tiers?  

We know we're not forced to play high tiers, but the game highly encourages it, more so now than ever before.  I don't personally have a problem with high tiers, but some prefer to stay low-to-mid tier for enjoyment.  All they are asking for is something fun for them to do where they don't have to scale the high tier ladder.

But see there is a difference of opinion here. I div with my friends every night and we play tier V-X in a rotation starting at V and going up to X, we hit X and we start over at V, often times 20 people in a discord channel all divisioned up.

I get there are missions and things people push for, but at the end of the day this is a game, and we should be playing it for fun. Most people I know at least play in that fashion or for that reason. When a new friend joins our circle we'll all drop to lower tiers to play with them and help more. Flooding the lower tiers with experienced players will raise an already steep learning curve for new players.

But at the end of the day I can only speak to what I KNOW, which is the focus for missions and such are V-X and that is the focus that will for the most part stay, because from I -IV there is A LOT of content.

-Hapa

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