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CaptinKen

CVs in Clan Battles ?

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(With aircraft carriers now being able to take part in Clan Battles, we've introduced a new restriction for the current season: a Clan must make a choice between entering a battle with one aircraft carrier or one battleship.) My question is this: If you choose a BB will you only play against other clans with a BB or is there a chance your clan will be pitied vs a clan with a CV? 

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1 minute ago, CaptinKen said:

(With aircraft carriers now being able to take part in Clan Battles, we've introduced a new restriction for the current season: a Clan must make a choice between entering a battle with one aircraft carrier or one battleship.) My question is this: If you choose a BB will you only play against other clans with a BB or is there a chance your clan will be pitied vs a clan with a CV? 

I guess that no, you can still play against clan with the other ship.

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26 minutes ago, CaptinKen said:

(With aircraft carriers now being able to take part in Clan Battles, we've introduced a new restriction for the current season: a Clan must make a choice between entering a battle with one aircraft carrier or one battleship.) My question is this: If you choose a BB will you only play against other clans with a BB or is there a chance your clan will be pitied vs a clan with a CV? 

I would hope if you don't run a CV, you will never see a CV on the other team, because CV vs. no CV is basically an auto loss unless the CV is completely special or the other 6 ships on the enemy team are completely special.

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Matchmaker normally wouldnt allow bb on one side and cv on the other. @Hapa_Fodder think you could get an answer for us? Clan war question. Thanks!

Edited by Capn_Nugget
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7 minutes ago, tfcas119 said:

I would hope if you don't run a CV, you will never see a CV on the other team, because CV vs. no CV is basically an auto loss unless the CV is completely special or the other 6 ships on the enemy team are completely special.

I wonder about that. CV lack in alpha damage, and a group of ships together is a great deterrent to make CV less useful. I would probably prefer sail with a BB than with a CV in clan battle.

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1 minute ago, Y_Nagato said:

I wonder about that. CV lack in alpha damage, and a group of ships together is a great deterrent to make CV less useful. I would probably prefer sail with a BB than with a CV in clan battle.

its not the alpha (unless its Haku or Enterprise AP bombs) that makes CVs bad game design, its the spotting of radar cruisers and DDs that screws them over, combined with the fact that the only way to have AA be effective is pray the CV flies right through all your flak clouds, that causes the major issues.

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42 minutes ago, CaptinKen said:

(With aircraft carriers now being able to take part in Clan Battles, we've introduced a new restriction for the current season: a Clan must make a choice between entering a battle with one aircraft carrier or one battleship.) My question is this: If you choose a BB will you only play against other clans with a BB or is there a chance your clan will be pitied vs a clan with a CV? 

The last time they did this, you will see a CV even if you don't pick one. Having a BB doesn't worsen or improve your odds.

 

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1 minute ago, tfcas119 said:

its not the alpha (unless its Haku or Enterprise AP bombs) that makes CVs bad game design, its the spotting of radar cruisers and DDs that screws them over, combined with the fact that the only way to have AA be effective is pray the CV flies right through all your flak clouds, that causes the major issues.

Sure the spotting is great. But without BB to dev strike enemy cruisers the effect of it will be limited. And depending of the size of the map, CV can become prime target quite quickly.

 

finally, the lack of proper tank for the CV team may also be an issue: holding flank will be harder unless they go some 1 cv 4 moskva kind of team.

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14 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

I wonder about that. CV lack in alpha damage, and a group of ships together is a great deterrent to make CV less useful. I would probably prefer sail with a BB than with a CV in clan battle.

A group of ships togheter has zero map control, or map pressure. The enemy team would be able to just get all objectives with little oposition. 

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53 minutes ago, CaptinKen said:

(With aircraft carriers now being able to take part in Clan Battles, we've introduced a new restriction for the current season: a Clan must make a choice between entering a battle with one aircraft carrier or one battleship.) My question is this: If you choose a BB will you only play against other clans with a BB or is there a chance your clan will be pitied vs a clan with a CV? 

As far as i know, you can get BB vs CV mathces. Maybe the MM will (if possible) prioritize BB vs BB or CV vs CV. But good clan are all going to run CVs. 

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After seeing what CVs did in the last Ranked season, it should have been obvious there was no place in CBs for them. They were frequently winning battles all by themselves. Strategy just went out the window. Being able to actually hold or contest a cap just went out the window. Just trying to get to a spot just went out the window. One doesn't need to have a BB to devstrike anything when the CV can devstrike half your team with just a couple of squadrons, and one doesn't need a ship to tank damage when the CV has obliterated anything trying to damage your team. Toss in the fact that the ships with RPF will be telling the CV exactly where to go with their strikes, as well.

 

This is important: CV'S HAVE NO COUNTER. THEY ARE BROKEN, STILL. HAVING THEM IN ANY COMPETITIVE MODE MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Xlap said:

A group of ships togheter has zero map control, or map pressure. The enemy team would be able to just get all objectives with little oposition. 

And yet the opposite team will have one less ship to do proper map control and push for objectives. They may take 2/3 soon, but will be obliterated on the other one, with a CV almost use as a glorified eyes of Sauron and no proper tank. I am not saying that it will be broken, but the meta may well make them more on par with BB.

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4 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

And yet the opposite team will have one less ship to do proper map control and push for objectives. They may take 2/3 soon, but will be obliterated on the other one, with a CV almost use as a glorified eyes of Sauron and no proper tank. I am not saying that it will be broken, but the meta may well make them more on par with BB.

One less ship wont matter if they have good positioning. Set some good crossfires and they can murder the enemy team if they try to get close to objectives. Add some torpedo DDs and cruisers can do a lot of work on ships sailling close. 

 

And once a couple ships are sunk or after some HE spam destroy part of the AA, the CV can go in and start finishing some targets. 

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4 minutes ago, Xlap said:

One less ship wont matter if they have good positioning. Set some good crossfires and they can murder the enemy team if they try to get close to objectives. Add some torpedo DDs and cruisers can do a lot of work on ships sailling close. 

 

And once a couple ships are sunk or after some HE spam destroy part of the AA, the CV can go in and start finishing some targets. 

Dd will be a rare sight with the CV, and a CV team may well forget it altogether.

 

and cross fire are fine, but without the dev strike potential of a BB it lose some of its attraction. Clan brawl did show the limit of CV, and there was less player.

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11 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

Dd will be a rare sight with the CV, and a CV team may well forget it altogether.

Possible yes, i think that DDs wont be very good this next CB. But some like Gearing with 16km torps can stil do some work. Specially if you run into too many clans with BB instead of CV. 

Quote

 

and cross fire are fine, but without the dev strike potential of a BB it lose some of its attraction. Clan brawl did show the limit of CV, and there was less player.

While a dev strike is unlikely, crusier AP on the broadside of another cruiser can hurt a lot, some 2-3 salvos might be enough to kill them. 

 

Also, the aplah of BBs wont matter much against well positioned or well angled cruisers. A Bb wont be able to hit a cruiser using islands as cover or inside smoke. Also some crusiers (like Moskva, Stalingrad, PR) can straight up tank the BB. 

 

The only way a team with a BB can win, is if the enemy team misplay really bad. 

Edited by Xlap

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3 minutes ago, Xlap said:

Possible yes, i think that DDs wont be very good this next CB. But some like Gearing with 16km torps can stil do some work. Specially if you run into too many clans with BB instead of CV. 

While a dev strike is unlikely, crusier AP on the broadside of another cruiser can hurt a lot, some 2-3 salvos might be enough to kill them. 

 

Also, the aplah of BBs wont matter much against well positioned or well angled cruisers. A Bb wont be able to hit a cruiser using islands as cover or inside smoke. Also some crusiers (like Moskva, Stalingrad, PR) can straight up tank the BB. 

 

The only way a team with a BB can win, is if the enemy team misplay really bad. 

Gearing and even 20km Shima can find some use, or DD with good AA to stay near the group when against CV and scout when no CV (Harugumo for instance).

And yes cruiser Ap on broadside is deadly. But for that you need good broadside. It is not like ''Am Thunderer I shot and over match everything'' kind of stuff.

And the question of missplay is always the main point of the win. But it's a new meta: Moskva, Stalingrad and PR can tank many BB, but ships like Thunderer and Conqueror will laugh at them. Surprisingly enough, by playing with team composition I think it is possible to play with BB instead of CV quite effectively. Especially with, funny enough, the new Soviet bias line with god tier AA and can stealth shot down plane like a Minotaur.

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3 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

 

And yes cruiser Ap on broadside is deadly. But for that you need good broadside. It is not like ''Am Thunderer I shot and over match everything'' kind of stuff.

This is the thing, crossfires. If you are playing without a CV, the enemy team can just spread around the map, so some one is always able to shoot the broadside of enemy ships. 

3 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

And the question of missplay is always the main point of the win. But it's a new meta: Moskva, Stalingrad and PR can tank many BB, but ships like Thunderer and Conqueror will laugh at them.

Moskva, Stalingrad can just tank Thuderer, 50mm or plate armor all around is eough to bounce AP shells. And with survivability build they can take a lot of HE dmg. And ships like Thunderer or CQR are not the kind of push BBs, they are very easy to take down by HE spam with that 32 mm all around. Thunderer is even easier as it dont even have the zombie heal like CQR.

7 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

Surprisingly enough, by playing with team composition I think it is possible to play with BB instead of CV quite effectively. Especially with, funny enough, the new Soviet bias line with god tier AA and can stealth shot down plane like a Minotaur.

They can win, but only if the enemy tema playes poorly and not by their own skill. CB is all about objectives. If they spread around the map to play objectives, the Cv can just farm them for free. If they stay togheter, they lose map pressure and cant take objectives. 

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56 minutes ago, KrasnyKrimzonOktyabrskya said:

 One doesn't need to have a BB to devstrike anything when the CV can devstrike half your team with just a couple of squadrons,

 

 

LOL.. The legend of reworked CVs grows on..   

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1 minute ago, Xlap said:

This is the thing, crossfires. If you are playing without a CV, the enemy team can just spread around the map, so some one is always able to shoot the broadside of enemy ships. 

Moskva, Stalingrad can just tank Thuderer, 50mm or plate armor all around is eough to bounce AP shells. And with survivability build they can take a lot of HE dmg. And ships like Thunderer or CQR are not the kind of push BBs, they are very easy to take down by HE spam with that 32 mm all around. Thunderer is even easier as it dont even have the zombie heal like CQR.

They can win, but only if the enemy tema playes poorly and not by their own skill. CB is all about objectives. If they spread around the map to play objectives, the Cv can just farm them for free. If they stay togheter, they lose map pressure and cant take objectives. 

As long as you got flank. A team that stick together and push one of the side objective will offer little clean broadside.

 

And yes they can tank AP shell. But the 4k damage per shell of the Thunderer will come in like a truck. And they can take some HE damage, but PR and Stalingrad have BB fire time, so they will burn quite a lot. Plus, Neither of those 3 are ''great'' He spammer, in the sense of nemesis of Royal BB. Their slow rate of fire make them less menacing than a Zao or a Worcester, and their higher caliber do not give them any reals advantages in term of HE (but Stalingrad and PR can citadel British bb)

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24 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

As long as you got flank. A team that stick together and push one of the side objective will offer little clean broadside.]

If the enemy team is pushing one side, all you have to do is keep some ships on the flank in front of them and send some others to the center of the map and you get a crossfire on the enemy team. 

 

And because you have a CV on your team, you can get early spotting and see where the enemy team is pushing. So the Cv team will always be ahead in positioning. 

 

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@Hapa_Fodder Good Lord cant anyone answer this simple question. (With aircraft carriers now being able to take part in Clan Battles, we've introduced a new restriction for the current season: a Clan must make a choice between entering a battle with one aircraft carrier or one battleship.) My question is this: If you choose a BB will you only play against other clans with a BB or is there a chance your clan will be pitied vs a clan with a CV? 

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