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wildcat18

Suggestions on Battleship and Cruiser lines

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I have just about every tier 3,4 and 5 Battleship and Cruiser from the U.S.A., UK, Germany, USSR, Japan and France. If you had to pick one line for each to go up to tier 8 in co-op with, what would it be? 

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33 minutes ago, wildcat18 said:

I have just about every tier 3,4 and 5 Battleship and Cruiser from the U.S.A., UK, Germany, USSR, Japan and France. If you had to pick one line for each to go up to tier 8 in co-op with, what would it be? 

Cruiser: Japanese. A nice uniform line well rounded for that frame. From tier 5 to 8 you do bot have any stinker and they all operate fairly similarly. Plus, its a line tbat teach you how to angle.

 

BB: German. Its coop, do a secondary build and charge.

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6 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

Cruiser: Japanese. A nice uniform line well rounded for that frame. From tier 5 to 8 you do bot have any stinker and they all operate fairly similarly. Plus, it is a line that teaches you how to angle.

:Smile_great:

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1 hour ago, wildcat18 said:

I have just about every tier 3,4 and 5 Battleship and Cruiser from the U.S.A., UK, Germany, USSR, Japan and France. If you had to pick one line for each to go up to tier 8 in co-op with, what would it be? 

Cruiser:  While Japan is a good cruiser line, I do not know your playstyle.  Knowing that, I would recommend a line that has a split in it. 

If you don't like the playstyle of one, you can switch to the other without giving up too much.

USA or UK - probably UK as they have torps - Self defense torps, but they have torps.  (Food for thought: USSR split is coming, may want to wait on them?)

BB:  Germany - as said above, but you really need at least a 10pt CO to get the most out of the secondaries.

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With the pending Russian line split, that may be the way to go. Could end up with a twofer after the split. No real stinkers in the line. At the current time, the soviet heavy cruisers look like the best cruisers for each tier (WIP, but hey, they are Russian).

Russian BB line looks pretty damn good too. Pretty much leads the way in all categories (WR, damage done, etc.)

All this does hinge on what playstyle you enjoy.

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14 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

With the pending Russian line split, that may be the way to go. Could end up with a twofer after the split. No real stinkers in the line. At the current time, the soviet heavy cruisers look like the best cruisers for each tier (WIP, but hey, they are Russian).

Russian BB line looks pretty damn good too. Pretty much leads the way in all categories (WR, damage done, etc.)

All this does hinge on what playstyle you enjoy.

Well Russian cruiser are not spectacular until tier 8, and even there the Chapayev is not that good. The Tallin as of now is op for sure, but it is the only one for the grind. While the Japs have all good CL on that frame.

 

 

Russian BB are not that great in Coop: bot charge in and you will struggle to keep you broadside from them. Plus the slow reload do not help in that race for damage.

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It depends on play style and what you are good at in terms of weapons.

Also, some have some quirks. Royal Navy CL are squishy. IJN comes second in that category. US Navy leads well rounded and Germany comes second.

Heavy cruisers are right now in flux with US having a gun advantage with Germany second. Russian line is about to get introduced and Royal Navy is still pending in terms of performance.

There are the premium ships. Of them all Khron, Alaska, and Azuma are okay. Rest need fine sailing skills to be good.

 

In terms of Battleships, US Navy is great at about tier 8. But you have to get used to shell flight time. The shell is heavier, so it packs a punch. IJN starts out of the gate hot with Kongo and trips you up at Izumo. The grind transition between Fuso and Nagato is fine but Nagato to Amagi can get expensive. Izumo is the death march to Yamato.

Every BB line has a weakness, each is well defined when you look at the armor models and history of the design.

Your playing style dictates that choice.

 

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The best best cruisers line up to tier 8 for coop is the British CL line.

why? 

Because Smoke + DPM + Torps + AI doesn't know how to use Radar, and CVs aren't out to get you. Spin in some island play and use allied bots as bait and you will see 100k games almost every game. Its honestly like a slot machine effect when you win big and tons of change starts flowing out of the machine, except its AP bullets into enemy broadsides :D

 

The best battleship line up to tier 8 for coop is the German BB line.

why?

Because stronk secondaries, hydro and armor. Fight DDs, CAs, BBs all at point blank like a "real" BB haha.

 

---

The enemy of great is good.

There are plenty of "good" choices, but if your going to play mainly PvE with these ships, then picking ones that are capable of mopping the floor when played right will give you the most "fun". There is nothing like pwning some bots to release some stress, but to utterly annihilate the enemy team with stupid amounts of AP DPM+Torps from smoke, or fighting 3 people at the same time with secondaries doesn't get any more fun then the two lines above. 

 

Both will require you to know how to play correctly, as its not fool proof, but I give my options as "peak" coop "fun" for both cruisers and BBs.

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6 hours ago, wildcat18 said:

I have just about every tier 3,4 and 5 Battleship and Cruiser from the U.S.A., UK, Germany, USSR, Japan and France. If you had to pick one line for each to go up to tier 8 in co-op with, what would it be? 

For Battleships, easy:  German BBs.

- Respectably faster than the USN BBs.

- Great Secondaries, but Bismarck has long range Mega Secondaries.

- Outstanding protection scheme.

- Gneisenau has torpedoes for a BB.

- Bismarck has Hydro.

 

Wade into things and destroy them with Secondary and Main Battery gunfire.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Thanks for all the help with my question. German BB sounds like the way to go. As far as CL is concerned, I might just wait to see what happens with the Russian line since I got to the Kirov so I could get it as a premium.

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6 hours ago, wildcat18 said:

Thanks for all the help with my question. German BB sounds like the way to go. As far as CL is concerned, I might just wait to see what happens with the Russian line since I got to the Kirov so I could get it as a premium.

Understand that the RU Cruiser Line demands long ranged play and avoiding gunfire.

In general:

- Their shell flight characteristics are best suited to long range:  High velocity shells, low shell arcs.  Easy to hit distant targets.

- Generally very bad armor and very exposed Citadels.

- Generally very short range torpedoes.

- Turn like a dead yak.  Other Cruiser Lines you can briefly risk showing broadside to do a maneuver and the ship responds quickly, executing turns on a good rate.  RU Cruisers get mediocre rudder shift times.  If that isn't bad enough, they take their sweet a** time executing those turns.  You think you're doing a turn in between an enemy's salvos, the RU Cruiser will surprise you with how slowly it does those turns and you're still showing an unhealthy amount of sides when the enemy fires again.

 

You'll hear stories about Moskva's characteristics in Tier X, but she is honestly an oddball compared to the rest of the RU Cruiser Line.  IMO, she does not represent the line because she is so far beyond what the others have in characteristics.

 

If you like to play short ranged with your Cruisers at times, they're not a good idea.  The WORST selection you can take.  But if you like to stand off, they're a solid choice.

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i've tried a few coop games in BB, speed is good... if you are too slow your dd and cruiser teammates will be just mopping up when you get to the fight...

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On 4/7/2020 at 5:30 PM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

For Battleships, easy:  German BBs.

- Respectably faster than the USN BBs.

- Great Secondaries, but Bismarck has long range Mega Secondaries.

- Outstanding protection scheme.

- Gneisenau has torpedoes for a BB.

- Bismarck has Hydro.

 

Wade into things and destroy them with Secondary and Main Battery gunfire.

Do you like Manual Secondaries for Co-op or is it not worth the 4 points?

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1 hour ago, RWO71 said:

Do you like Manual Secondaries for Co-op or is it not worth the 4 points?

Yes, absolutely worth it for Reichsmarine ships.  Secondaries build all the way!  :cap_rambo:

German battleships and US light cruisers.  Dallas, Helena and Cleveland are all a blast to play.  :cap_like:

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5 hours ago, RWO71 said:

Do you like Manual Secondaries for Co-op or is it not worth the 4 points?

I like Manual Secondaries for my Sec. Spec Battleships, even on the ones with abnormally more accurate Secondaries (Massachusetts, Georgia, Ohio).

 

The reason is you get more hits for any given amount of time with Manual Secondaries than without.  The only time Manual Secondaries isn't as great is when something is so close that you can throw a potato and knock out the enemy captain with it.

Bismarck, Tirpitz, GK, FDG, Massachusetts, Georgia, Ohio, Alsace, Gascogne, Republique, etc... They all got Manual Secondaries.

 

I remember a while back before I had a high points captain on Massachusetts, I didn't have enough pts for Manual Secondaries.  BFT + AFT + SBM1, etc, I had everything else but Manual Secondaries.  I remember even within the confines of Co-op, a mid tier bot RU DD was charging my Mass, guns blazing.  I watched in disappointment as my "accurate" Mass secondaries struggled to hit a DD sailing straight at me.  The DD got under 4km before the combination of Secondary & Main Battery gunfire finally killed it.  It was fortunate that a friendly Cruiser player spammed it with HE and broke its torpedoes because it never got its torps off against me.

 

After that weak display of Secondaries, I had a spare high points captain from somewhere, spent doubloons to respec him, and threw him on Massachusetts.  This time I had Manual Secondaries on top of the prior Secondary related skills, and now they get more hits in a period of time than without it.

 

Here is a post of mine from 2018 when I was testing out Manual Secondaries with Tirpitz in the Training Room.  The dispersion of those shells say it all.  Keep in mind, the effects of Manual Secondaries only go into its full effect with Tier VII ships.  For some reason WG penalized Tier VI and lower with weaker benefits.  The benefits are pronounced with "Mega Secondaries" BBs that reach far like Bismarck, Mass, GK.

On 8/26/2018 at 7:21 PM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

IMO, if you're serious at all on implementing a Secondaries Build on a BB, Manual Secondaries is very important for more hits in a shorter amount of time.  Massachusetts has a lot of built in accuracy in her Secondaries and I have not tried her yet without Manual Secondaries.  But German BBs?  Got Secondary Builds all over the place with them.

 

Here is my Tirpitz with BFT, AFT traits, no Manual Secondaries trait.  SBM2 upgrade is installed.

2fk1d4B.jpg

Look at that terrible scatter.

 

Here is the same Tirpitz build, but this time with my GK captain who has a Manual Secondaries trait.

kgQbY12.jpg

That's what I want to see.  Tighter scatter, more hits.

 

And that's against a BB sized target.  With Manual Secondaries you get more hits even further out.  The only time not having Manual Secondaries becomes irrelevant is when the threat is in super close ranges.  Like, "That Destroyer is so close that the captain could jump from his rails and climb aboard my ship" kind of close.

 

Secondaries can only do their thing with high volume of hits.  The more hits, the more chances to set fires, the more chances to hit something that it will Penetrate and do shell damage.  If your Secondaries scatter like in picture 1 above, then you get less hits, less chances for fires, less secondary penetration damage.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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For grinding a BB line in Coop, as others have already said, the German line is the best overall, thanks to their brawling specialty. However, I'd say other lines aren't slouch either. BB's are BB's, regardless of the nations, with large health pools, the Repair Party consumable, and meaty alphas. You can't go wrong much with these... except maybe many of the low-to-mid tier BB's are too slow to get to fights in time, before the match is over.

As for the cruiser line, I'd also have to say the British. While they have paper thin armor that the bots just loooove to citadel, they have torpedoes, the Repair Party, and most importantly, the smoke. Ambushing bots into a close range torpedo salvo is one of effective ways to rack up damage and kills in Coop, and the British CL's are the only ones that can do it well, thanks to the above combination of arsenals, especially the smoke. It's usually the DD's that can use such tactic to horde most of the damage and kills... and the British CL's can actually join in on the fun, lol.

That's just me though. My 2 ships... lel. :Smile_hiding:

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British light cruisers are great fun, but German cruisers should not be discounted. They have lots of torp launchers with friendly launching arcs, whereas by Tier 8 the Japanese tech tree CA's can only launch theirs to the rear. The German light cruisers at T5 and T6 are ultra fragile, but they have long main gun range for tier and, unlike the British light cruisers, can set fires with their main guns. This can come in handy for various event missions.

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19 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The only time Manual Secondaries isn't as great is when something is so close that you can throw a potato and knock out the enemy captain with it.

 

 

OR, you forget to target your manual secondaries.  :cap_hmm:

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2 hours ago, Joe_918145 said:

OR, you forget to target your manual secondaries.  :cap_hmm:

That's never been a problem for me.  Randoms taught me a lot about that :Smile_trollface:

 

8 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

British light cruisers are great fun, but German cruisers should not be discounted. They have lots of torp launchers with friendly launching arcs, whereas by Tier 8 the Japanese tech tree CA's can only launch theirs to the rear. The German light cruisers at T5 and T6 are ultra fragile, but they have long main gun range for tier and, unlike the British light cruisers, can set fires with their main guns. This can come in handy for various event missions.

High Tier German Cruisers are very well suited to the brawl Co-op meta.  They're pretty tough with a very peculiar protection scheme ideal for brawls, and got plenty of torps to plant into ships.  Hindenburg in particular is just absolutely fantastic, flexible.  She can pew pew at range quite well, but she's even better in a brawl.

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8 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

British light cruisers are great fun, but German cruisers should not be discounted. They have lots of torp launchers with friendly launching arcs, whereas by Tier 8 the Japanese tech tree CA's can only launch theirs to the rear. The German light cruisers at T5 and T6 are ultra fragile, but they have long main gun range for tier and, unlike the British light cruisers, can set fires with their main guns. This can come in handy for various event missions.

 

 

24 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

High Tier German Cruisers are very well suited to the brawl Co-op meta.  They're pretty tough with a very peculiar protection scheme ideal for brawls, and got plenty of torps to plant into ships.  Hindenburg in particular is just absolutely fantastic, flexible.  She can pew pew at range quite well, but she's even better in a brawl.

 

 

As much as I love the German lines, and I do agree that high tier German cruisers are great for some level of brawling, but I'm not sure if they can come close to the British CL's, when it comes to actually spanking some bots. :Smile_hiding:

The smoke on the British CL's is really a powerful tool, and if it weren't for that, I would have picked the German cruiser line on my previous post. :Smile_hiding:

Additionally, while high tier German cruisers are quite tanky to engage in quite a bit of brawling (not as much as the German BB's though), that's hard to say for the mid tier ones. I mean, they feel a bit TOO fragile at times, if you ask me. Especially Nurnberg... lol. :Smile_hiding:

Maybe it's just me... lel. :Smile_hiding:

My 2 shells, one German HE and the other British AP. :Smile_hiding:

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