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SKurj

Unique Upgrades and 9.3/9.5

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I see this in the 9.3 news...  i am struggling to understand why anyone would grind UU's not knowing what they will be changed to?  Is the info out there anywhere on the 9.5 changes?

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2 minutes ago, SKurj said:

I see this in the 9.3 news...  i am struggling to understand why anyone would grind UU's not knowing what they will be changed to?  Is the info out there anywhere on the 9.5 changes?

image.png.584e08c4929912f0e5650363444cfbc7.png

Still no info on the UU changes. Only WG knows when it will be revealed.

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No answer about compensation of the mission parts already completed.

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14 minutes ago, SKurj said:

I see this in the 9.3 news...  i am struggling to understand why anyone would grind UU's not knowing what they will be changed to?  Is the info out there anywhere on the 9.5 changes?

image.png.584e08c4929912f0e5650363444cfbc7.png

You aren't grinding the UUs though, you're grinding research points. If you don't like what your UU ends up like, then save your points towards something else, possibly a different UU.

I'm sure the UUs are just the tip of the iceberg as far as available things other than ships.

 

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10 minutes ago, Erebthoron said:

No answer about compensation of the mission parts already completed.

I spotted this in the small print

image.thumb.png.a38946e3e653726b2694e9d195438e68.png

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16 minutes ago, Erebthoron said:

No answer about compensation of the mission parts already completed.

That likely won't come until the end of the year - Any missions you already have will expire in December giving you time to complete them without the RB.
 

6 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

I spotted this in the small print

image.thumb.png.a38946e3e653726b2694e9d195438e68.png

That's for subsequent sections you complete, not previous - WG intends to make premium consumables free (Announced in the KOTS stream).

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37 minutes ago, SKurj said:

I see this in the 9.3 news...  i am struggling to understand why anyone would grind UU's not knowing what they will be changed to?  Is the info out there anywhere on the 9.5 changes?

image.png.584e08c4929912f0e5650363444cfbc7.png

WG is doing a decent thing and informing players that the unique upgrades are going to be changed soon, so that they can make an informed decision about if they want to spend their research points at this time or wait to see what the changes are. WG could have easily not included that statement at all, and in 2 months there would be OUTRAGE! on the forums...

21 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

You aren't grinding the UUs though, you're grinding research points. If you don't like what your UU ends up like, then save your points towards something else, possibly a different UU.

^This

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I'm not resetting a line for a UU. The grind for a UU previously would take less than a week if you tried. Regrinding a reset line will take more effort than that. A T10 grind for me takes about 2-3 weeks) Thats for a T10 ship alone (For me, I'm not on 24-7)

I'm glad I already got UU's from the missions complete. Who knows if I'll keep them after Wargames "Modifies them". I only hope they redo the Shima's. Its worthless right now.

 

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I donno, I don't really like the idea WG is pushing.

I think one of the WG employee ones said, "This game is not pay to win, but could be pay to grind."

At this moment, I personally believe some of the Unique Upgrades are indeed "upgrades", that gives you advantages in battle.

I know WG said they gonna rebalance these upgrades in 0.9.5 and make them "sidegrades", but still, WG's balance usually is hit and miss.

I don't really expecting them be able to perfectly balance stuffs (since there will be difference between the actual result and targeted result), so some of the unique upgrades likely will be slightly better than their normal upgrade counterparts (of course, unless WG set the targeted performance way lower than the normal upgrades so the chances of overshoot greatly decrease, but I don't think they will do that as it simply discourages players to use the system), just like what we have right now.

WG might be able reduce the performance difference with the new balance, but I am still expecting some upgrades better than normal ones.

I mean, WG is still on the way of balancing some of Tier 10 ships, and now adding more factors into the equation? Balancing Tier 10 ships with and without the upgrades?

 

And again, if the unique upgrades gives you an edge compare to normal upgrades, the situation might become something like:

Players pay to grind, and the game is grind to win. Which effectively is giving the players three options:

1. You spent a tonne of time regrind lines to have an advantage.

2. You pay the grind to have an advantage.

3. You don't have the advantage compare to players choose 1 and 2.

Which I think is exactly the reason why I don't like the Research Bureau.

 

I kind of feel if WG copy paste Tier X tech-tree ships and give them slightly different status can effectively achieve the same thing as these unique upgrades do. Which in my opinion, the unique upgrades might be effectively the same as balancing new ships.

I would say just swap those unique upgrades with some super unique camos or cosmetics, which will have zero chance of impacting the ships' performances and game balancing, as well as been truly "optional grind" for players.

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3 minutes ago, Tom_Lin said:

I would say just swap those unique upgrades with some super unique camos or cosmetics, which will have zero chance of impacting the ships' performance and game balancing, as well as been truly "optional grind" for players.

Oh, cosmetic only regrind rewards was suggested plenty of times during the NTC outrage, and the official response was effectively ‘cosmetic only rewards do not interest players and would not incentivize anyone to regrind ships,’ along with some veiled and not so veiled suggestions that cosmetic only rewards are not financially viable for a game (despite the fact that most of the current big MOBA and multiplayer FPS games seem to be doing quite well financially through mostly or only cosmetic sales). 

Of course there would be a number of people who would refuse to grind for cosmetic items (probably the same group of players that refuse to buy premiums that aren’t flat out stronger than their tech tree counterparts), but you’d probably have the same number of people regrinding if not more. And you wouldn’t have the general dislike for anything regrinding that at least a large part of the playerbase currently has. 

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1 minute ago, MidnightPhoenix07 said:

Oh, cosmetic only regrind rewards was suggested plenty of times during the NTC outrage, and the official response was effectively ‘cosmetic only rewards do not interest players and would not incentivize anyone to regrind ships,’ along with some veiled and not so veiled suggestions that cosmetic only rewards are not financially viable for a game (despite the fact that most of the current big MOBA and multiplayer FPS games seem to be doing quite well financially through mostly or only cosmetic sales). 

Of course there would be a number of people who would refuse to grind for cosmetic items (probably the same group of players that refuse to buy premiums that aren’t flat out stronger than their tech tree counterparts), but you’d probably have the same number of people regrinding if not more. And you wouldn’t have the general dislike for anything regrinding that at least a large part of the playerbase currently has. 

I think if the cosmetics are good enough, like even better than the space camo, give them special gun fire effects, hit effects, adding some cosmetic animations on the camo, and things like these probably will attract people.

Hell, maybe even just straight up give those camos better economic income, or generate special exps faster. WG can play around with a lot of things to attract people, I just think it doesn't have to be battle performance related.

I actually have a lot of special camos on the ships that I like, which I already spend money on those things, I think I wouldn't mind regrind after I completed the lines that I am interested in.

 

But take few steps back, why WG is such attracted to the idea of regrinding lines anyway? Are they expecting some people will simply convert tonnes of free exp to skip the grind?

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18 minutes ago, Tom_Lin said:

I think if the cosmetics are good enough, like even better than the space camo, give them special gun fire effects, hit effects, adding some cosmetic animations on the camo, and things like these probably will attract people.

Hell, maybe even just straight up give those camos better economic income, or generate special exps faster. WG can play around with a lot of things to attract people, I just think it doesn't have to be battle performance related.

I actually have a lot of special camos on the ships that I like, which I already spend money on those things, I think I wouldn't mind regrind after I completed the lines that I am interested in.

 

But take few steps back, why WG is such attracted to the idea of regrinding lines anyway? Are they expecting some people will simply convert tonnes of free exp to skip the grind?

All of those cosmetic/economic ideas were suggested and many more, and all we got were crickets in response. Plenty of other games have proved their main argument against them is flawed, but that’s WG. 

 

Originally the idea of regrinding was to give veteran players who have already unlocked all the ships they want in game to still have things to grind for (WG’s words paraphrased, not mine), and because the first Christmas snowflake event showed players ‘enjoyed revisiting their lower tiered ships.’ Of course, the fact that players were replaying lower tier ships they hadn’t touched in ages was because they all suddenly felt the urge to revisit them, and had nothing to do with the fact that all the ships they were playing had valuable steel and coal rewards attached to them.

Shortly after that, they also claimed it was to get players into lower tiers to help ease some of the problems low tier matchmaking was having due to a lack of population down there, which of course is why they started the rewards above the MM range they wanted to populate. 

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2 hours ago, SKurj said:

I see this in the 9.3 news...  i am struggling to understand why anyone would grind UU's not knowing what they will be changed to?  Is the info out there anywhere on the 9.5 changes?

image.png.584e08c4929912f0e5650363444cfbc7.png

WG this os rhe type of decision that make us scratch our head.  Why buy a UU when you don't know what its going to look like later.  Either release them all at ince or not at all. 

So I buy a UU then you cjance it something I dont wont then will you givw a refund?

Somtime I want to be in the board room when you think of these things?

I have 37k so left on Midway and 40k XP for Wor. Guess I will just grind them out.

Edited by jags_domain
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4 hours ago, Tom_Lin said:

I donno, I don't really like the idea WG is pushing.

I think one of the WG employee ones said, "This game is not pay to win, but could be pay to grind."

At this moment, I personally believe some of the Unique Upgrades are indeed "upgrades", that gives you advantages in battle.

I know WG said they gonna rebalance these upgrades in 0.9.5 and make them "sidegrades", but still, WG's balance usually is hit and miss.

I don't really expecting them be able to perfectly balance stuffs (since there will be difference between the actual result and targeted result), so some of the unique upgrades likely will be slightly better than their normal upgrade counterparts (of course, unless WG set the targeted performance way lower than the normal upgrades so the chances of overshoot greatly decrease, but I don't think they will do that as it simply discourages players to use the system), just like what we have right now.

WG might be able reduce the performance difference with the new balance, but I am still expecting some upgrades better than normal ones.

I mean, WG is still on the way of balancing some of Tier 10 ships, and now adding more factors into the equation? Balancing Tier 10 ships with and without the upgrades?

 

And again, if the unique upgrades gives you an edge compare to normal upgrades, the situation might become something like:

Players pay to grind, and the game is grind to win. Which effectively is giving the players three options:

1. You spent a tonne of time regrind lines to have an advantage.

2. You pay the grind to have an advantage.

3. You don't have the advantage compare to players choose 1 and 2.

Which I think is exactly the reason why I don't like the Research Bureau

 

I kind of feel if WG copy paste Tier X tech-tree ships and give them slightly different status can effectively achieve the same thing as these unique upgrades do. Which in my opinion, the unique upgrades might be effectively the same as balancing new ships.

I would say just swap those unique upgrades with some super unique camos or cosmetics, which will have zero chance of impacting the ships' performances and game balancing, as well as been truly "optional grind" for players.

I have Des and Henry will get Wor and I think they are sideways. I flat out donr like the Des I am sticking with reload.  

Henery get a stupid reload but your seen the entire game you can never break off.

Wor I dont think is useful but will get it because they are going to change it.

 

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2 hours ago, Erebthoron said:

No answer about compensation of the mission parts already completed.

If you have the mission all ready then you will still have the mission. You have the rest of the year to finish them

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Research Bureau is still fundamentally flawed for 2 reasons. First, it makes no sense from a time/money perspective to reset tech trees. Most of us still don't have all the T10s and the credit/$$$ costs of resetting a tech tree are insane (repurchasing ships, equipment demounts, using premium time all over again, using more signals and camo, not having certain ships for Ranked and CW, snowflake events at end of year, etc). Second, it makes no sense to reward turbowhales with exclusive content that can't be unlocked any other way, especially when that content takes the form of OP premium ships like Ohio and now legendary modules that I guarantee will stop being gimmicky sidegrades the moment they migrate to the Research Bureau.

The past year, WG has had a major fixation with creating as much content as possible that new players won't be able to access. In the past I said for thousands of games, but now it's really tens of thousands. This new content will visibly impact their performance and create an unlevel playing field. Why is WG doing this? Does the dev team ever look across the road at WoT and see how broken crew skills and improved equipment are? Does "power creep" mean anything here?

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And worse, it looks like you still need 5 T10s for the Research Bureau. Before, you could get the UU mission on your first T10.

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1 hour ago, awildseaking said:

Research Bureau is still fundamentally flawed for 2 reasons. First, it makes no sense from a time/money perspective to reset tech trees. Most of us still don't have all the T10s and the credit/$$$ costs of resetting a tech tree are insane (repurchasing ships, equipment demounts, using premium time all over again, using more signals and camo, not having certain ships for Ranked and CW, snowflake events at end of year, etc). Second, it makes no sense to reward turbowhales with exclusive content that can't be unlocked any other way, especially when that content takes the form of OP premium ships like Ohio and now legendary modules that I guarantee will stop being gimmicky sidegrades the moment they migrate to Research Bureau.

What is this “Research Bureau” you speak of? :Smile_trollface:

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1 hour ago, Kizarvexis said:

And worse, it looks like you still need 5 T10s for the Research Bureau. Before, you could get the UU mission on your first T10.

I think this would be the shittiest part of it all . Some people are happy with there 1 nation of t10's or just a couple of t10s .  

Edited by EyE_dYe_QuIck
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Folks,

We DID say that we were moving all the UU's to the Research Bureau, we also said that more UU's are going to be added and the existing ones were going to be changed some to make them more functional or useful, because quite frankly many of the UU's are not at this time.

We also said that the mission chains if not completed by Dec 31st of this year would have a compensation tagged to them. What is that? I do not know yet.

MANY of those missions require A LOT of grinding and so this is why the cost in RP is there, because it can cost a lot of grinding to get 2 lines worth of RP.

That being said, I reset every single tier X line before I started working for WG and at the time I had a VERY healthy FXP pool and was able to bring them back up to tier X in a fairly short time. Not saying this is going to happen in the majority of cases, but I am pretty sure a lot of people will do this.

ALSO, do not forget that after tomorrow you will be able to mount every single economic signal in your inventory on a ship, if you don't think that will speed your grind up, I think you underestimate how much can be gained by this.

Mahalo,

-Hapa

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30 minutes ago, EyE_dYe_QuIck said:

I think this would be the shittiest part of it all . Some people are happy with there 1 nation of t10's or just a couple of t10s .  

Newbies could at least get the first UU with the missions. Now they have to weight until they get 5 T10's to get a UU and you have to reset a line to do it.

Every season (3 months) you can get x2 RP, so you only have to reset one line to get a UU every 3 months.

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6 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Folks,

We DID say that we were moving all the UU's to the Research Bureau, we also said that more UU's are going to be added and the existing ones were going to be changed some to make them more functional or useful, because quite frankly many of the UU's are not at this time.

We also said that the mission chains if not completed by Dec 31st of this year would have a compensation tagged to them. What is that? I do not know yet.

MANY of those missions require A LOT of grinding and so this is why the cost in RP is there, because it can cost a lot of grinding to get 2 lines worth of RP.

That being said, I reset every single tier X line before I started working for WG and at the time I had a VERY healthy FXP pool and was able to bring them back up to tier X in a fairly short time. Not saying this is going to happen in the majority of cases, but I am pretty sure a lot of people will do this.

ALSO, do not forget that after tomorrow you will be able to mount every single economic signal in your inventory on a ship, if you don't think that will speed your grind up, I think you underestimate how much can be gained by this.

Mahalo,

-Hapa

Gotta love the PR spin: yeah, we're taking away your ability to earn these on a per ship basis and locking them behind the blatant cash grab that is the Research Bureau but we're also finally adding UUs for all the tier 10s we haven't bothered adding them to over the years because we couldn't figure out how to monetize UUs until now!

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