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Hapa_Fodder

ST, Z-35, German aircraft carriers.

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Please note that all information in the development blog is preliminary and subject to change during testing. Showcased features may or may not end up on the main server. Any final information will be published on our game's website.


German destroyer Z-35, Tier VIII.

At the moment, the concept of Z-35 involves the following features:

  • 128 mm guns with good rate of fire. HE-shells have low maximum damage, but a high penetration capacity of 32mm, and AP shells have high maximum damage;
  • Low torpedo range;
  • Good amount of Hit Points;
  • No "Engine Boost" consumable;
  • "Smoke Genrator" consumable similar to British destroyers, with a high number of charges and fast reload. 

In terms of gameplay, Z-35 –like other German destroyers– is versatile. Because of the availablilty of "Hydroacoustic Search", a fast "Smoke Generator" reload, good main caliber guns, and a large Hit Point pool, the destroyer is capable of fighting for key areas as well as battling almost any opponent. However, lacking the "Engine Boost" consumable makes it hard for her to immediately change position in case of danger.

Z-35 is now a Tier VIII ship. 

Detailed characteristics

German destroyer Z-35, Tier VIII:

Hit points - 19,100. Plating - 19 mm.

Main battery - 5x1 128 mm. Firing range - 12.1 km.
Maximum HE shell damage - 1,500. Chance to cause fire - 6%. HE initial velocity - 830 m / s.
Maximum AP shell damage - 3,000. AP initial velocity - 830 m / s.
Reload time - 3.4 s. 180 degree turn time - 22.5 s. Maximum dispersion - 106 m. Sigma - 2.00.

Torpedo tubes - 2x4 533 mm. Maximum damage - 13,700. Range - 6.0 km. Speed - 64 kt. Reload time - 90 s. Launcher 180 degree turn time - 7.2 s. Torpedo detectability - 1.3 km.

AA defense: 1x1 20.0 mm, 5x2 37.0 mm, 2x4 20.0 mm.
AA defense short-range: continuous damage per second - 42, hit probability - 95%, action zone 0.1-2.0 km;
AA defense mid-range: continuous damage per second - 123, hit probability - 100%, action zone 0.1-3.5 km;

Maximum speed - 36.5 kt. Turning circle radius - 670 m. Rudder shift time - 4.4 s. Surface detectability - 7.9 km. Air detectability - 3.7 km. Detectability after firing main guns in smoke - 3.0 km.

Available consumables:
Slot 1 - Damage Control Party
Slot 2 - Smoke Generator (action time 10 s; duration time 40 s; reload time 70 s; charges 6).
3 slot - Hydroacoustic Search  (Duration time 100 s; Torpedo detection range 3.5 km; Ship detection range 5.0 km; Reload time 120 s; Charges 3)


The concept of German aircraft carriers implies AP rockets and bombs, slow torpedoes with high damage, and planes with high speed and relatively low HP pools.

German aircraft carrier Rhein, Tier IV: 

Hit points - 32,300. Plating - 16 mm.

Secondary Armament:
2x2 105.0 mm, range - 4.5 km.
Maximum HE shell damage - 1,200. Chance to cause fire - 5%.

Maximum speed - 26.0 kt. Turning circle radius - 760 m. Rudder shift time - 8.6 s. Surface detectability - 9.5 km. Air detectability - 7.5 km.

Available consumables:
Slot 1 - Damage Control Party
Slot 2 - Fighter

Aircraft:

Attack aircraft

Hit points - 1,050, cruising speed - 114.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 3, aircraft per squadron - 6, aircraft restoration time - 44 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 9.
Rockets in payload - 1 , rocket type - AP, maximum rocket damage - 1,600.

Torpedo bombers

Hit points - 1300, cruising speed - 111.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 2, aircraft per squadron - 8, aircraft restoration time - 59 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 9.
Torpedoes in payload - 1 , maximum torpedo damage - 5,800, aerial speed - 25.0 knots, torpedo range - 6 km, torpedo arming distance 504 m.

Dive bombers

Hit points - 1,060, cruising speed - 96.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 2, aircraft per squadron - 6, aircraft restoration time - 55 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 9.
Bombs in payload - 1 , bomb type - AP, maximum bomb damage - 3,000.

German aircraft carrier Weser, Tier VI: 

Hit points - 41,000. Plating - 19 mm.

Secondary Armament:
5x2 105.0 mm, range - 5.0 km.
Maximum HE shell damage - 1,200. Chance to cause fire - 5%. 

Maximum speed - 32.0 kt. Turning circle radius - 930 m. Rudder shift time - 10.6 s. Surface detectability - 12.1 km. Air detectability - 9.5 km.

Available consumables:
Slot 1 - Damage Control Party
Slot 2 - Fighter 

Aircraft:

Attack aircraft

Hit points - 1,160, cruising speed - 150.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 2, aircraft per squadron - 8, aircraft restoration time - 58 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 12.
Rockets in payload - 4 , rocket type - AP, maximum rocket damage - 1,600.

Torpedo bombers

Hit points - 1,440, cruising speed - 123.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 2, aircraft per squadron - 8, aircraft restoration time - 73 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 12.
Torpedoes in payload - 1 , maximum torpedo damage - 6,600, aerial speed - 25.0 knots, torpedo range - 6 km, torpedo arming distance 504 m.

Dive bombers

Hit points - 1,170, cruising speed - 140.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 2, aircraft per squadron - 8, aircraft restoration time - 68 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 12.
Bombs in payload - 1 , bomb type - AP, maximum bomb damage - 5,200.

German aircraft carrier Parseval, Tier VIII: 

Hit points - 51,400. Plating - 19 mm.

Secondary Armament:
6x2 105.0 mm, range - 7.0 km.
Maximum HE shell damage - 1,200. Chance to cause fire - 5%. 

Maximum speed - 31.8 kt. Turning circle radius - 1,140 m. Rudder shift time - 13.0 s. Surface detectability - 13.5 km. Air detectability - 11.2 km.

Available consumables:
Slot 1 - Damage Control Party
Slot 2 - Fighter

Aircraft:

Attack aircraft

Hitpoints - 1,270, cruising speed - 162.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 3, aircraft per squadron - 9, aircraft restoration time - 66 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 14.
Rockets in payload - 4, rocket type - AP, maximum rocket damage - 2,150.

Torpedo bombers

Hit points - 1,570, cruising speed - 149.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 3, aircraft per squadron - 9, aircraft restoration time - 80 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 14.
Torpedoes in payload - 1 , maximum torpedo damage - 6,600, aerial speed - 25.0 knots, torpedo range - 6 km, torpedo arming distance 604 m.

Dive bombers

Hit points - 1,280, cruising speed - 149.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 3, aircraft per squadron - 9, aircraft restoration time - 76 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 14.
Bombs in payload - 1 , bomb type - AP, maximum bomb damage - 6,100.

German aircraft carrier Manfred Richthofen, Tier X: 

Hit points - 65,300. Plating - 19 mm.

Secondary Armament:
12x2 105.0 mm, range - 7.2 km.
Maximum HE shell damage - 1,200. Chance to cause fire - 5%. 

Maximum speed - 32.0 kt. Turning circle radius - 1,200 m. Rudder shift time - 16.4 s. Surface detectability - 14.0 km. Air detectability - 14.2 km.

Available consumables:
Slot 1 - Damage Control Party
Slot 2 - Fighter

Aircraft:

Attack aircraft

Hit points - 1,380, cruising speed - 172.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 3, aircraft per squadron - 9, aircraft restoration time - 82 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 14.
Rockets in playload - 2 , Rocket type - AP, maximum rocket damage - 5,000.

Torpedo bombers

Hit points - 1,710, cruising speed - 174.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 3, aircraft per squadron - 9, aircraft restoration time - 99 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 14.
Torpedoes in payload - 1 , maximum torpedo damage - 8,200, aerial speed - 25.0 knots, torpedo range - 6 km, torpedo arming distance 738 m.

Dive bombers

Hit points - 1,390, cruising speed - 174.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 3, aircraft per squadron - 12, aircraft restoration time - 76 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 18.
Bombs in payload - 1 , bomb type - AP, maximum bomb damage - 7,100.

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So basically the new Zed is useless...

As for the carriers, the concept is interesting, and noteworthy in that they have almost a km more range on the secondary guns before buffs vs Graf Zeppelin, yet the guns don't hit as hard. Not sure if that will be a viable build or not... otherwise they can't do much of anything against DDs, so not sure how relevant they will be.

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53 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

AA defense: 1x1 20.0 mm, 5x2 37.0 mm, 2x4 20.0 mm.

 This is German Destroyer Z -35's Anti Aircraft Artillery suite Stats from WG design model.

The Stats below come from Wikipedia and tomorrow I will try to find my reference book to confirm but  Z - 35's  AA configuration seems wrong.

Gun numbers are correct but mountings are different

 2 × twin 3.7 cm (1.5 in) AA guns 3 × quadruple, 3 × single 2 cm (0.79 in) AA guns ( Wikipedia )

regards

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Mkay, mkay, so we've got stats for the new German ships now, cool. Inquiring minds, however, would like to know: What planes do each of the carriers' squadrons have? We've got the stats, but what are the models going to be? Given some (several) decisions WG has made concerning aircraft choice, only two of which being corrected, this has me a bit anxious.

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53 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

At the moment, the concept of Z-35 involves the following features:

  • 128 mm guns with good rate of fire. HE-shells have low maximum damage, but a high penetration capacity of 32mm, and AP shells have high maximum damage;
  • Low torpedo range;
  • Good amount of Hit Points;
  • No "Engine Boost" consumable;
  • "Smoke Genrator" consumable similar to British destroyers, with a high number of charges and fast reload. 

In terms of gameplay, Z-35 –like other German destroyers– is versatile. Because of the availablilty of "Hydroacoustic Search", a fast "Smoke Generator" reload, good main caliber guns, and a large Hit Point pool, the destroyer is capable of fighting for key areas as well as battling almost any opponent. However, lacking the "Engine Boost" consumable makes it hard for her to immediately change position in case of danger.

Z-35 is now a Tier VIII ship. 

Detailed characteristics

German destroyer Z-35, Tier VIII:

Hit points - 19,100. Plating - 19 mm.

Main battery - 5x1 128 mm. Firing range - 12.1 km.
Maximum HE shell damage - 1,500. Chance to cause fire - 6%. HE initial velocity - 830 m / s.
Maximum AP shell damage - 3,000. AP initial velocity - 830 m / s.
Reload time - 3.4 s. 180 degree turn time - 22.5 s. Maximum dispersion - 106 m. Sigma - 2.00.

Torpedo tubes - 2x4 533 mm. Maximum damage - 13,700. Range - 6.0 km. Speed - 64 kt. Reload time - 90 s. Launcher 180 degree turn time - 7.2 s. Torpedo detectability - 1.3 km.

AA defense: 1x1 20.0 mm, 5x2 37.0 mm, 2x4 20.0 mm.
AA defense short-range: continuous damage per second - 42, hit probability - 95%, action zone 0.1-2.0 km;
AA defense mid-range: continuous damage per second - 123, hit probability - 100%, action zone 0.1-3.5 km;

Maximum speed - 36.5 kt. Turning circle radius - 670 m. Rudder shift time - 4.4 s. Surface detectability - 7.9 km. Air detectability - 3.7 km. Detectability after firing main guns in smoke - 3.0 km.

Available consumables:
Slot 1 - Damage Control Party
Slot 2 - Smoke Generator (action time 10 s; duration time 40 s; reload time 70 s; charges 6).
3 slot - Hydroacoustic Search  (Duration time 100 s; Torpedo detection range 3.5 km; Ship detection range 5.0 km; Reload time 120 s; Charges 3)

The only good part about this is that MAYBE German DDs will get their deserved 32mm HE pen

Now the ship itself... Decent HP, very meh guns and extremely poor torpedos... Is this KMS AL Yukikaze? 

 

55 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Hit points - 65,300. Plating - 19 mm.

Does she have the battleship armor on her lower hull or just like Kaga she gets nerfed armor?

56 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Secondary Armament:
6x2 105.0 mm, range - 7.0 km.
Maximum HE shell damage - 1,200. Chance to cause fire - 5%. 

Ooooh yes this is the interesting part, GZ here comes your bigger brother 

57 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Maximum speed - 31.8 kt. Turning circle radius - 1,140 m. Rudder shift time - 13.0 s. Surface detectability - 13.5 km. Air detectability - 11.2 km.

Available consumables:
Slot 1 - Damage Control Party
Slot 2 - Fighter

Fair enough, it even looks way stealthier than it should be

57 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Attack aircraft

Hit points - 1,380, cruising speed - 172.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 3, aircraft per squadron - 9, aircraft restoration time - 82 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 14.
Rockets in playload - 2 , Rocket type - AP, maximum rocket damage - 5,000.

Ouch that health and speed... That is NOT fast planes and the HP is even worse than Tier 8 planes... The armament remains to be seen but I don't have much hope for them with the very fragile planes and low reserves...

59 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Torpedo bombers

Hit points - 1,710, cruising speed - 174.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 3, aircraft per squadron - 9, aircraft restoration time - 99 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 14.
Torpedoes in payload - 1 , maximum torpedo damage - 8,200, aerial speed - 25.0 knots, torpedo range - 6 km, torpedo arming distance 738 m.

Again below average Tier 8 plane HP with meh speed... In fact they have exactly the same HP as GZ's torpedo bombers but slower speed for some reason... The damage looks good but arms so so far away and did I read that right? 25kts? wth? How do you want anyone to hit something with IJN arming distances and the slowest torpedos in the game...?

1 hour ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Dive bombers

Hit points - 1,390, cruising speed - 174.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 3, aircraft per squadron - 12, aircraft restoration time - 76 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 18.
Bombs in payload - 1 , bomb type - AP, maximum bomb damage - 7,100.

So barely more damage than GZ planes, slower speed and 300 less HP but always having to fight Tier 10s...? What on earth are this stats...?

 

 

In fact having a look at all their stats, the Tier 4 seems to be Hosho 2.0 with faster planes and quite decent HP... RIP Tier 4s even more... 

The Tier 6 looks fairly nice without anything OP or too weak

The Tier 8... Is this just a nerfed GZ? Less secondaries and far weaker planes... 

Also, can you please explain why on earth do they all get 25kts torpedos with long arming distances? Sure, for Tier 4 and even Tier 6 they MAY work but how do you expect people to use 30kts torpedos (taking TA skill as you need the faster torpedo module for the secondaries) vs literally anything at high Tiers? Sure, you may land them on a BB that has the engine disabled from a torpedo but other than that... Landing these with British super short arming distances would be quite challenging but with IJN armining distances? Yeah good luck hitting absolutely anything 

 

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12 minutes ago, tm63au said:

 This is German Destroyer Z -35's Anti Aircraft Artillery suite Stats from WG design model.

The Stats below come from Wikipedia and tomorrow I will try to find my reference book to confirm but  Z - 35's  AA configuration seems wrong.

Gun numbers are correct but mountings are different

 2 × twin 3.7 cm (1.5 in) AA guns 3 × quadruple, 3 × single 2 cm (0.79 in) AA guns ( Wikipedia )

regards

They are wrong.

From Siegfried Breyer "Marine Arsenal 36 - Die Deutschen Zerstörer 2"

Quote

Obwohl diese Zerstörer bereits von Anfang an über eine
verstärkte FlaBewaffnung (insgesamt an die 20 Rohre 3,7
und 2 cm) verfügten, wurde vermutlich auch für sie eine
"Barbara"-Nachrüstung ins Auge gefaßt; dabei wäre nach
aller Wahrscheinlichkeit der Ausbau der dritten 12,7 cm-
SK und der Ersatz der beiden 3,7 cm-Flak C/30 durch eine
vermehrte Zahl von 3,7 cm-Flak M-43 fällig gewesen. Hierzu
ist es jedoch nicht mehr gekommen: Z 35 und Z 36 gingen
Ende 1944 verloren, und Z 43 wurde erst so spät der
Front zugeführt, daß man ihn auf absehbare Zeit nicht entbehren
konnte.

Roughly translated that means this:

"Although those destroyers were carrying an enhanced AA armament from the beginning (in total around 20 barrels of 37 and 20mm), they were likely looked at for a "Barbara" modification as well; here with a high chance the third 12.7cm SK and the two 3.7cm Flak C/30 would have been replaced by an increased number of 3.7cm Flak M-43. But it didn't come to that: Z-35 and Z-36 were lost in late 1944, and Z-42 reached the front so late that it could not be spared for the foreseeable future."

image.thumb.png.63ea3b4b9cbb1501485bfcfe811d3300.png

 

This also matches the entry in Gröner's encyclopedia, in Harald Fock's "Z-Vor!" and in Gerhard Koop's "Die deutschen Zerstörer 1935-1945".

 

Unfortunately WG likes to change the AA armament to make it match whatever, with only a few exceptions being historically accurate (be it according to plans or to what was actually done). Leberecht Maass and Z-23 showcase this in a similar manner, they kept the main gun and still got the 37mm automatic guns in increased numbers.

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29 minutes ago, Landsraad said:

Mkay, mkay, so we've got stats for the new German ships now, cool. Inquiring minds, however, would like to know: What planes do each of the carriers' squadrons have? We've got the stats, but what are the models going to be? Given some (several) decisions WG has made concerning aircraft choice, only two of which being corrected, this has me a bit anxious.

A post on reddit about the new KM CV's listed the planes. No idea if it is accurate but claimed to have come from forums (EU I believe)...

Hi all, here the planes model list : 

Rhein

  • Arado Ar.68 - Attack Aircraft (AA)
  • Heinkel He. 50 - DB
  • Arado Ar.95b - Torpedo bombers (TB)

Weser
Stock

  • Arado Ar.197 - AA
  • Arado Ar.81 - DB
  • Arado Ar.95b - TB

Top

  • Messerschmitt Bf109E - AA
  • Henschel Hs.123 - DB
  • Dornier Do.22 - TB

August Parseval
Stock

  • Messerschmitt Bf109T - AA
  • Fieseler Fi.167 - DB
  • Fieseler Fi.167 - TB

Top

  • Messerschmitt Bf109G - AA
  • Messerschmitt Bf110C7 - DB
  • Messerschmitt Bf110C7 - TB

Manfred Richtofen
Stock

  • Focke-Wulf FW190A8 - AA
  • Focke-Wulf FW190G8 - DB
  • Focke-Wulf FW190G8 - TB

Top

  • Messerschmitt Me.155G - AA
  • Ta.152C - DB
  • Ta.152C - TB
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I know it is early on and WIP but these KM CV's seem awful weak "now". The planes are going to get shredded way too easy and for the most part damage is poor. Hopefully these CV's will get some buffs if that is how it plays out. 

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5 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

They are wrong.

From Siegfried Breyer "Marine Arsenal 36 - Die Deutschen Zerstörer 2"

Roughly translated that means this:

"Although those destroyers were carrying an enhanced AA armament from the beginning (in total around 20 barrels of 37 and 20mm), they were likely looked at for a "Barbara" modification as well; here with a high chance the third 12.7cm SK and the two 3.7cm Flak C/30 would have been replaced by an increased number of 3.7cm Flak M-43. But it didn't come to that: Z-35 and Z-36 were lost in late 1944, and Z-42 reached the front so late that it could not be spared for the foreseeable future."

image.thumb.png.63ea3b4b9cbb1501485bfcfe811d3300.png

 

This also matches the entry in Gröner's encyclopedia, in Harald Fock's "Z-Vor!" and in Gerhard Koop's "Die deutschen Zerstörer 1935-1945".

 

Unfortunately WG likes to change the AA armament to make it match whatever, with only a few exceptions being historically accurate (be it according to plans or to what was actually done). Leberecht Maass and Z-23 showcase this in a similar manner, they kept the main gun and still got the 37mm automatic guns in increased numbers.

So your saying both Wikipedia and WG have the wrong AA configuration

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41 minutes ago, tm63au said:

So your saying both Wikipedia and WG have the wrong AA configuration

The numbers from Wikipedia actually match, surprisingly. The graphic gives 2x2 37mm and 3x4 + 3x1 (or 2x1) 20mm. Wikipedia states identical numbers, except maybe a single 20mm. The gun on the bow is always a gamble. It's there on many graphics, just like graphics also like to place one beneath the barrel of the fourth gun, but pictures usually tell a different story. Adding those barrels up you get 18 or 19, or the "around 20" that Breyer stated.

WG's numbers however are a different story.

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I can't see how the Richthofen is viable at T10?   The plane HPs, especially AA/DB seem terribly light to me?  These are not exceptionally fast, so time spent in AA auras is going to be a bit longer than I would have hope for when "Fast Planes" was listed as a niche?     Perhaps something will be seen in PT/ST, but on paper this looks even less playable than Audacious.   Secondary build CVs are trolly for the meme's but have no purpose for practical game play?    We'll see, but not impressed at all at the moment.      

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39 minutes ago, iRA6E said:

I can't see how the Richthofen is viable at T10?   The plane HPs, especially AA/DB seem terribly light to me?  These are not exceptionally fast, so time spent in AA auras is going to be a bit longer than I would have hope for when "Fast Planes" was listed as a niche?     Perhaps something will be seen in PT/ST, but on paper this looks even less playable than Audacious.   Secondary build CVs are trolly for the meme's but have no purpose for practical game play?    We'll see, but not impressed at all at the moment.      

She has literally nerfed GZ planes (both speed and health) to get slightly better bombers (aiming reticle remains to be seen) and questionable rockets, I'm not impressed at all by them considering GZ's are actually quite decent and start a lot of fires... Torpedos are a very bad joke with the extremely low speed and super long aiming distances... Hell all T10 BBs except for Yamato can outrun them, even GK can reach half a knot faster with the spood beest flag...

The secondaries are the only saving grace and even though we still don't know if they will get GZ dispersion, if the concealment stays like that it could be an actually viable secondary build, yes viable, not just for the memes

The armor of the Tier 10 still has a ton of unanswered questions: will she get armored deck? Will she have Battleship armor on the hull? Hard to hit citadel like Enti? Turtleback? 

 

Outside of the hull... How is it even possible that they consider giving WORSE planes than what GZ has to a Tier 10? If you play bad with GZ you can get dangerously low on planes even on Tier 6 matches and Tier 10 ones you are almost guaranteed to run very low on planes by the end of the match if you actually want to do any damage... How can WG even think about nerfing the worst Tier 8 planes (just for example, Kaga DB have 300 more HP than Manfred's while having more than twice the reserves two tiers lower) and expect even Unicum CV player to reach any kind of reasonable damage not in a consistent basis, just once... This planes are beyond bad, they have less HP than even Furious' planes with not high speeds at all... This is a extremely bad joke 

Edited by XurMP
Lol GK with speed boost... I meant to flag
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5 minutes ago, XurMP said:

She has literally nerfed GZ planes (both speed and health) to get slightly better bombers (aiming reticle remains to be seen) and questionable rockets, I'm not impressed at all by them considering GZ's are actually quite decent and start a lot of fires... Torpedos are a very bad joke with the extremely low speed and super long aiming distances... Hell all T10 BBs except for Yamato can outrun them, even GK can reach half a knot faster with the spood beest...

The secondaries are the only saving grace and even though we still don't know if they will get GZ dispersion, if the concealment stays like that it could be an actually viable secondary build, yes viable, not just for the memes

The armor of the Tier 10 still has a ton of unanswered questions: will she get armored deck? Will she have Battleship armor on the hull? Hard to hit citadel like Enti? Turtleback? 

 

Outside of the hull... How is it even possible that they consider giving WORSE planes than what GZ has to a Tier 10? If you play bad with GZ you can get dangerously low on planes even on Tier 6 matches and Tier 10 ones you are almost guaranteed to run very low on planes by the end of the match if you actually want to do any damage... How can WG even think about nerfing the worst Tier 8 planes (just for example, Kaga DB have 300 more HP than Manfred's while having more than twice the reserves two tiers lower) and expect even Unicum CV player to reach any kind of reasonable damage not in a consistent basis, just once... This planes are beyond bad, they have less HP than even Furious' planes with not high speeds at all... This is a extremely bad joke 

Completely agree...   Though, the hull of a CV is really of little importance to me, Hell I just realized my CV still had citadels a few days ago and I have more than a 1000  games in RW CVs. Once your being shot at 90% of the time in a CV whats armor really matter?     CVs are all about the planes?  And this looks like a proper mess to me...   It is testing so i'll give it a bit and see if they get it anywhere?    but I don't see this as anything,  anyone will play at T10?  The planes will be just about as fragile as eggs...   Not that it would matter much to me as CV play at T10 is not economically viable anyway...   I'll play CVs there in ranked, but random battles there seem rather pointless with the economic & now XP challenges and so much reliance on a team to keep you from losing your [edited]....  grinding & regrinding lines, I almost never have enough credits, so playing CVs there for fun is just not worth it to me...Back to the point,  I see almost no utility in the entire line against DDs, which makes the line sort of the same "one trick pony" that indomitable is,  and we know how that turned out.   I mean I guess this will be a "farming" type CV...  with players screaming at you all game to spot dds? Not understanding that doing so, just goes against what you need to be doing in this CV to have success?    Just wondering if WG's vigilance to creating niche lines is starting to make them churn out some less than functional content.    A lot of stuff comes to ST and then gets hung up because they don't like it... but I don't think I've ever seen a whole tech tree line stalled?   Anyway,  enough of my griping about a test line?   I guess we'll see, They may turn out to be the hammer of Thor, who knows?  . 

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3 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

128 mm guns with good rate of fire. HE-shells have low maximum damage, but a high penetration capacity of 32mm, and AP shells have high maximum damage;

is this a sign of quarter pen coming to German DDs in the future

3 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Reload time - 3.4 s.

an extra gun and basically BFT for free, already better gunpower than 128 Z-23, plus its stealthier too, with a nice chunk of health. It looks like it may be a decent gunboat (although the low HE damage and her AP won't arm on DDs unless her fuses are short and/or the threshold is set shorter.

3 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Torpedo tubes - 2x4 533 mm. Maximum damage - 13,700. Range - 6.0 km. Speed - 64 kt. Reload time - 90 s. Launcher 180 degree turn time - 7.2 s. Torpedo detectability - 1.3 km.

I'll say this right now, T5 torpedoes will not work at T8. There're basically slightly better than Soviet suicide torps without the speed or damage. It might be better to make these Maass' 8.5km torps, as it still is short range, but still workable.

3 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Slot 2 - Smoke Generator (action time 10 s; duration time 40 s; reload time 70 s; charges 6).
3 slot - Hydroacoustic Search  (Duration time 100 s; Torpedo detection range 3.5 km; Ship detection range 5.0 km; Reload time 120 s; Charges 3)

Standard hydro with British smoke, interesting.

3 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

German aircraft carrier Weser, Tier VI: 

 

3 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

12.1 km

how is Weser's stealth 12km when she has a mast that tries to go into orbit?

3 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

AP, maximum rocket damage - 2,150.

how does T8 rockets go from flying DD AP to...

3 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

AP, maximum rocket damage - 5,000.

a flying Des Moines at T10? 

As for the rest of the German CVs, I think I was right, these ships will be fine because these things are pretty trash save for their secondary range, but they have nowhere near enough of them to go secondary build. Also, how does one expect to hit something with a torpedo that does at best 32knts with a 600-700m arming distance?

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Well I will give credit where credit is due WG are at least there using a number of German planes that failed to make the cut for carrier operations, while others were either Luftwaffe night harassment bombers and or recon planes still more were in fact seaplanes with the odd prototype built with wheeled undercarriage, but the best one yet is the BF 110 twin engine fighter bombers those guys are going to get slaughtered:Smile_veryhappy:, on the up side FW190's.

But alas once again the STUKAS are not present :Smile_sad:   

Edited by tm63au

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2 hours ago, XurMP said:

Now the ship itself... Decent HP, very meh guns and extremely poor torpedos... Is this KMS AL Yukikaze? 

In defence of Yukikaze, her torpedo play is not poor. The F3 torps has 8km range - which though not great is better than 6km, travel fast and hit very hard. Yukikaze can also comfortably stealth torp, which the Z-35 cannot do if my maths is correct.

Not a good ship, but she still has some things going for her.

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I am totally fine with German CVs... and I know there are weaknesses for those to balance them, but AP rockets? I think in an earlier post WG mentioned those AP rocket gonna have similar pen to 203mm guns.

For Tier X German CV, if attacking flight is 3, and payload is 2, while maximum AP damage is 5000.

Which means each strike can potentially deal 3*2*5k=30k citadel damage to cruisers?

And for each squadron can have maximum 3 strikes...

I mean, even 1 citadel per strike is pretty painful already, as most of the Tier X cruisers only have about 50K health. 1 citadel is about 10% of your HP, and you can't heal because it's citadel damage...

Most tier 8 cruisers don't even have heal and have much less HP.

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Z-35 looks like a fail in her current state. Her HE pen will not make up for a lack of useful torps. Short RN smoke won't work if the lacks the baked-in handling improvements of her RN counterparts. 

It looks like they are making a DD that would have worked 3 years ago, but jamming it into the game today. 

 

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Only saving grace from this news is that it's WIP. :Smile_sceptic:

Otherwise... yeah, it's the typical 'why-am-I-not-surprised' German deficiency from WeeGee. Planes that are supposed to be fast, but not really... and yet super fragile and weak. CV's with no real defense against DD's, while only the Tier X one has any noteworthy Secondaries. A new DD whose only gimmick is the special German 1/4 pen and a British smoke... but otherwise mediocre. And etc, etc. :Smile_sceptic:

Really, why am I not surprised? :Smile_sceptic:

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Shame the Z-35 is being dropped down to T8 rather than juiced to stay at T9.

As for KM CV's... I'm taking these stats with a grain of salt.

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3.4 second reload on a Z1 with a Z23 hull? That’s around the firepower of Z46 but at T8, with 32mm pen and a smoke change. So basically this drops being a hybrid to become a German gunboat. However this can’t juggle quite like other German DDs played as a gunboats as you lose engine boost and have less time to smoke hydro which is basically where the torps are now limited, but can sorta do mino things with the extra charges.

Edited by eMercody_Viveleny
Forgot something.

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6 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

The concept of German aircraft carriers implies AP rockets and bombs, slow torpedoes with high damage, and planes with high speed and relatively low HP pools.

German aircraft carrier Rhein, Tier IV: 

Hit points - 32,300. Plating - 16 mm.

Secondary Armament:
2x2 105.0 mm, range - 4.5 km.
Maximum HE shell damage - 1,200. Chance to cause fire - 5%.

Maximum speed - 26.0 kt. Turning circle radius - 760 m. Rudder shift time - 8.6 s. Surface detectability - 9.5 km. Air detectability - 7.5 km.

Available consumables:
Slot 1 - Damage Control Party
Slot 2 - Fighter

Aircraft:

Attack aircraft

Hit points - 1,050, cruising speed - 114.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 3, aircraft per squadron - 6, aircraft restoration time - 44 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 9.
Rockets in payload - 1 , rocket type - AP, maximum rocket damage - 1,600.

Torpedo bombers

Hit points - 1300, cruising speed - 111.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 2, aircraft per squadron - 8, aircraft restoration time - 59 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 9.
Torpedoes in payload - 1 , maximum torpedo damage - 5,800, aerial speed - 25.0 knots, torpedo range - 6 km, torpedo arming distance 504 m.

Dive bombers

Hit points - 1,060, cruising speed - 96.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 2, aircraft per squadron - 6, aircraft restoration time - 55 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 9.
Bombs in payload - 1 , bomb type - AP, maximum bomb damage - 3,000.

German aircraft carrier Weser, Tier VI: 

Hit points - 41,000. Plating - 19 mm.

Secondary Armament:
5x2 105.0 mm, range - 5.0 km.
Maximum HE shell damage - 1,200. Chance to cause fire - 5%. 

Maximum speed - 32.0 kt. Turning circle radius - 930 m. Rudder shift time - 10.6 s. Surface detectability - 12.1 km. Air detectability - 9.5 km.

Available consumables:
Slot 1 - Damage Control Party
Slot 2 - Fighter 

Aircraft:

Attack aircraft

Hit points - 1,160, cruising speed - 150.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 2, aircraft per squadron - 8, aircraft restoration time - 58 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 12.
Rockets in payload - 4 , rocket type - AP, maximum rocket damage - 1,600.

Torpedo bombers

Hit points - 1,440, cruising speed - 123.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 2, aircraft per squadron - 8, aircraft restoration time - 73 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 12.
Torpedoes in payload - 1 , maximum torpedo damage - 6,600, aerial speed - 25.0 knots, torpedo range - 6 km, torpedo arming distance 504 m.

Dive bombers

Hit points - 1,170, cruising speed - 140.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 2, aircraft per squadron - 8, aircraft restoration time - 68 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 12.
Bombs in payload - 1 , bomb type - AP, maximum bomb damage - 5,200.

German aircraft carrier Parseval, Tier VIII: 

Hit points - 51,400. Plating - 19 mm.

Secondary Armament:
6x2 105.0 mm, range - 7.0 km.
Maximum HE shell damage - 1,200. Chance to cause fire - 5%. 

Maximum speed - 31.8 kt. Turning circle radius - 1,140 m. Rudder shift time - 13.0 s. Surface detectability - 13.5 km. Air detectability - 11.2 km.

Available consumables:
Slot 1 - Damage Control Party
Slot 2 - Fighter

Aircraft:

Attack aircraft

Hitpoints - 1,270, cruising speed - 162.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 3, aircraft per squadron - 9, aircraft restoration time - 66 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 14.
Rockets in payload - 4, rocket type - AP, maximum rocket damage - 2,150.

Torpedo bombers

Hit points - 1,570, cruising speed - 149.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 3, aircraft per squadron - 9, aircraft restoration time - 80 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 14.
Torpedoes in payload - 1 , maximum torpedo damage - 6,600, aerial speed - 25.0 knots, torpedo range - 6 km, torpedo arming distance 604 m.

Dive bombers

Hit points - 1,280, cruising speed - 149.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 3, aircraft per squadron - 9, aircraft restoration time - 76 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 14.
Bombs in payload - 1 , bomb type - AP, maximum bomb damage - 6,100.

German aircraft carrier Manfred Richthofen, Tier X: 

Hit points - 65,300. Plating - 19 mm.

Secondary Armament:
12x2 105.0 mm, range - 7.2 km.
Maximum HE shell damage - 1,200. Chance to cause fire - 5%. 

Maximum speed - 32.0 kt. Turning circle radius - 1,200 m. Rudder shift time - 16.4 s. Surface detectability - 14.0 km. Air detectability - 14.2 km.

Available consumables:
Slot 1 - Damage Control Party
Slot 2 - Fighter

Aircraft:

Attack aircraft

Hit points - 1,380, cruising speed - 172.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 3, aircraft per squadron - 9, aircraft restoration time - 82 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 14.
Rockets in playload - 2 , Rocket type - AP, maximum rocket damage - 5,000.

Torpedo bombers

Hit points - 1,710, cruising speed - 174.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 3, aircraft per squadron - 9, aircraft restoration time - 99 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 14.
Torpedoes in payload - 1 , maximum torpedo damage - 8,200, aerial speed - 25.0 knots, torpedo range - 6 km, torpedo arming distance 738 m.

Dive bombers

Hit points - 1,390, cruising speed - 174.0 knots, size of attacking flight - 3, aircraft per squadron - 12, aircraft restoration time - 76 s, detectability range - 10 km, number of aircraft on deck - 18.
Bombs in payload - 1 , bomb type - AP, maximum bomb damage - 7,100

So basically:

Tier 4 - AP only Hosho with joke torps

Tier 6 - AP only Ryujo with joke torps

Tier 8 - AP only Lexington using IJN ordnance and joke torpedoes

Tier 10 - Same a tier 8, but slightly better - and more joke torpedoes. Or maybe Audacious with the DB's it should have is a better reference. Oh, and only has AP.

 

How about SOMETHING DIFFERENT. Better yet - how about something that is different and has some semblance of historical accuracy? There are exactly 3 German planes that were going to or had the possibility of being operated from German CV's and carry torpedoes - unless you guys are putting Ju-88's on the tier 10. The Fi-167 bi-plane intended for GZ, the Ju-87c - intended for GZ, and some modified Fw-190's. But end of the day the y had more of a focus on the one thing they had - Dive Bomber, because they didn't have much in the way of aerial dropped torpedoes. They also weren't kitting out to really hit the heavy capital ships - GZ was meant more for attacking the DD's and maybe cruiser she might run into same as the rest. And I'm almost terrified to ask what planes your people wanna use after the I'm not going to say what I want to to be nice that is what they did with GZ and it's planes - I have issues with it - many, many issues. Issues that make me seriously question whatever person or persons did the research. The plane for the planes I'm also heavily against - then again your dev team has really kinda screwed up plane from how they should be - the radial engine USN plane should be the most durable, with German planes second given what most of the high tiers would be and some low (the 109 and Ju-87 simply being so for consistency), followed by UK with it's liquid cooled engines and turbines followed by IJN which was notorious for lack of protection. Speeds are a bit debatable. And then basically mobility is the reverse of HP. Or in short - USN planes should basically be almost like flying tank's that can't dodge as well but soak damage, IJN is great at dodging flak and turning but doesn't do as well as in sustained damage, with Germany and UK somewhere in the middle IJN trending a little more toward IJN and Germany toward USN. Playing up that USN's planes were known to take beatings and still come back, IJN plane were agile but at a cost and that UK and Germany both had somewhat more a balance and were similar to one another. 

For starters - scrap torpedoes entirely. No torps on any of the German CV's besides GZ - which will also help keep it unique. Swap them out for AP bombs to have the harder punch like what Indomitable lacks. Take the AP off the tier 4 attack planes because just no, and if were gonna have rockets - let's actually mount the right damn number especially if AP is being used. And lets add OPTIONS -captain skills and Modz are so bloody fixed for CV's at least give us some options in what ordnance we take.

 

Tier Attack plane + Ordance DB (AP) + Ordance DB (HE) + Ordance
4

Ar 197

2x Wfr.Gr 21 (HE)

Fi 167

PC 500

Fi 167

SC 250

6

Bf-109 'T' (E based model)

2x Wfr.Gr 21 (HE) or 2x Wfr.Gr 21 (AP)

Ju-87c

PC 500

Ju 87c

SC 250 or SC 500

8

Fw-190 'T' (A or D model)

2x Wfr.Gr 21 (HE) or 2x Wfr.Gr 21 (AP) or 12x Panzerblitz I 

Fw-190 'T'(F or G model)

PC 500

Fw-190 'T'(F or G model)

SC 250 or SC 500

10

Ta-152

4x Panzerblitz III (AP or HE) or 12x Panzerblitz I (or more)

Ju-187

PC 500 or PC 1000

Ju-187

SC 250,  SC 500, or SC 1000

 

 

- Ar 197 and Fi 167 while intended for GZ are both Biplanes that fit at tier 4, rockets are wrong but Wargaming insists tier 4's have to have rockets, PC 500 and SC 250 are well within carry range, I say PC 500 only because PC 250 does not exist, but you want to make one for tier 4 go for I actually won't complain on that one.

- 109's and Ju-87's were supposed to operate off 'Weser', Ordnance is accurate to planes, other than maybe AP versions of these, options allow for tweaking toward DD attack, CL attack or mix.

- Fw-190 would have likely been the next choice for conversion, filling most roles Germany needed between 2 different model sets. All armaments are within abilities/were used, Panerblitz I is an 80 mm rocket based on the R4M and tested heavily on the 190 platform near wars end. In game - HE, low damage, high fire chance, likely a bit better for anti-DD work or subs when added.

- Ta 152 is the obvious successor to the Fw-190 without bringing jets back - though I still think we should in this role. Wfr. Gr 21's are replaced by Panzerblitz III's - another 210 rocket though based on the R4M like the I model, likely no need for tube's, info is unclear on where testing if any got to but let's say 4 rockets per plane. It should be able to carry at least 12x Panzerblitz I - likely more if it's felt it's needed. The Ju-187 is a real project, and a unique one - it was however cancelled when estimates (not actual testing) showed only a slight improvement over later Ju-87 models. Might as well include it here, could be unique if rotating tail is animated (meant for tail gunners to have clean shots in flight). Easily able to handle all bombs listed, PC 1000 is if we want to give them real anti-BB punching power - I'm fine omitting them, but putting the option there.

odd tier planes - Tier 5: 109 'T' based on B model, Tier 7: 109 'T' based on G model or Me-155,  Tier 9: Unused variant or variant model (so if A is 8 D is 9 or 8 is D 2 and 9 is D 9) for attack planes, DB's are Tier 5: Ju-87a or b, Tier 7: Ju-87d, Tier 9 Whichever is not used at 8 or a variant model like with the attack planes. 

Make that above table and ordnance  thing happen, I'll keep my mouth shut on them just being fast and weak HP much as I disagree with it because it'll be tolerable if the planes and ordnance are close to right. 

Reduction of AP rocket at least on tiers 6 and 8 (and removal from 4) should have less potential balances issues while being historically correct. This could also allow for alternate group numbers to differentiate them more from existing lies and function, making them more unique. Tier 10 has fewer changes, though perhaps it will be fine with Xx2 setup due to AP option. Which could also setup to take the focus off rockets and more on use of bombs as well. Which hey - that and accuracy kind of what they were known for. Alternative option could also be scrap AP and have HE have 1/4 pen (20 mm on PB I, 52 mm on Wfr.Gr 21 and PB III)  basically. 

They'd be different, closer to what they historical would have or could have looked like, and actually maybe have an obvious focused role instead of 'hit everything' or way overspecialized. A hunter of DD or CL that would more likely guard a convoy, leaning on AP more if the player chooses unleash  citadel heavy blitzkrieg on CA that love to hide behind islands. It'd be something with actual flavour - not just another reskin with new nation colours and a minor gimmick if it even has one.

I know at this point your probably sick of seeing me quoting and/or tagging you in threads @Hapa_Fodder but if possible I wanna know does this work as something to go bend people ears or need some formatting change or something to meet what you need. Cause I have backed this line for years, in a full form, and am already less than pleased with the state of CV's on many levels and I don't want it to be another basically generic clone with minor tweaks.

Edited by WanderingGhost
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5 hours ago, XurMP said:

Also, can you please explain why on earth do they all get 25kts torpedos with long arming distances? Sure, for Tier 4 and even Tier 6 they MAY work but how do you expect people to use 30kts torpedos (taking TA skill as you need the faster torpedo module for the secondaries) vs literally anything at high Tiers? Sure, you may land them on a BB that has the engine disabled from a torpedo but other than that... Landing these with British super short arming distances would be quite challenging but with IJN armining distances? Yeah good luck hitting absolutely anything 

 

Yeah, those torps are basically unusuable. Dropping from anywhere astern is completely impossible, and you'd better be real good dropping from side and ahead because at that speed short of a Colorado most ships are going to have zero trouble dodging. I mean all you have to do put your stern to them and hit W and you're good. And let's be honest, 8.2K isn't exactly stellar in terms of damage. Just forget about dropping DDs. Used to be a Russian meme to outrun CV torps, now it's going to be everyone.

WG did accomplish one thing, there's no way KMS CVs are going to be able to do squat to DDs. Working as intended I guess...

 

But I think we were right, no need to worry about KMS CVs, they're German so they'll be crap. It's getting depressingly easy to predict WG.

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5 hours ago, XurMP said:

So barely more damage than GZ planes, slower speed and 300 less HP but always having to fight Tier 10s...? What on earth are this stats...?

maybe thats the balancing factor for the planes? they have low HP but big damage potential? i guess that makes sense when you think about it

Edited by tcbaker777

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6 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

128 mm guns with good rate of fire. HE-shells have low maximum damage, but a high penetration capacity of 32mm

perhaps a test to see if the other German DDs get this? they could probably use the help

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