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Ace_04

Making Old Premium Ship Great Again?

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So random thought here....

Was in a battle today and had a teammate sailing in an Ishizuchi.  Yes, I know....they do still exist.  But it had been so long since I'd seen one that I kinda forgot about that ship.

With that being said, is there anything that can be done (ie: buffs, events, promos, etc) to bring these old types of Premium Ships back into relevance again?

Other than for new players, is there any incentive for anybody to still play old Premiums like Ishizuchi, Dunkerque, or Z-39, considering the ever evolving power-creep in the game?

As always, I'll tag @Hapa_Fodder in this to get his opinion on this as well.

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I love Ishi and am solid in it. I think it is fine as it is. The problem is not that it is power creeped, but that it has no AA, so there is no point in playing it in the current low tier meta with the CV plague. 

Edited by Taichunger
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if you give zuchini some AA, it can be fire breathing dragon again  :D.   loved mine but havn't played much below t6 in almost 2 years.  

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I don’t run Ishizuchi because I mostly play T5-T8. T4 and below aren’t able to participate in events. 

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8 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

I love Ishi and am solid in it. I think it is fine as it is. The problem is not that it is power creeped, but that it has no AA, so there is no point in playing it in the current low tier meta with the CV plague. 

Oh Tai, never change.

It’s not that we’re two sides of the anti-cv coin, far from it; we’re two completely different coins. (Hates CVs/Hates the Rework itself.)

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13 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

I love Ishi and am solid in it. I think it is fine as it is. The problem is not that it is power creeped, but that it has no AA, so there is no point in playing it in the current low tier meta with the CV plague. 

 

2 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Oh Tai, never change.

It’s not that we’re two sides of the anti-cv coin, far from it; we’re two completely different coins. (Hates CVs/Hates the Rework itself.)

 

I got to agree with Tai on this one; as it's the same reason I stopped playing Ark Beta; simply cannot compete against planes I can't touch. Tier 4 is a nightmare without AA, and no one at that tier, including Yubari and Iwaki Aplha, has any that is effective. 

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For t4 and lower premiums, it’s a combination of being ineligible for missions (since I think the last time a saw a mission that wasn’t t5+ was a few years back, and that was a t3+ I believe) and, especially for t3 and 4, the complete or almost complete lack of aa on most of them, so taking one out when you’re almost guaranteed to see two if not theee carriers is effectively suicidal. In a game without carriers, strong premiums like Ark Beta/Nikolai/Ishizuchi would likely still be rather strong, but any cv player that knows how to play carriers pretty much already knows none of them have anything resembling aa so they’re free and easy targets. 

AA aside, if lower tier ships could count for missions (even if they use an idea from a month or so back where you could opt into t4s being eligible for missions but they’d always see t5 battles) you’d see more older and lower tier premiums played, and potentially WG would even sell more of the still available ones. 

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25 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

So random thought here....

Was in a battle today and had a teammate sailing in an Ishizuchi.  Yes, I know....they do still exist.  But it had been so long since I'd seen one that I kinda forgot about that ship.

With that being said, is there anything that can be done (ie: buffs, events, promos, etc) to bring these old types of Premium Ships back into relevance again?

Other than for new players, is there any incentive for anybody to still play old Premiums like Ishizuchi, Dunkerque, or Z-39, considering the ever evolving power-creep in the game?

As always, I'll tag @Hapa_Fodder in this to get his opinion on this as well.

 

8 minutes ago, Umikami said:

 

 

I got to agree with Tai on this one; as it's the same reason I stopped playing Ark Beta; simply cannot compete against planes I can't touch. Tier 4 is a nightmare without AA, and no one at that tier, including Yubari and Iwaki Aplha, has any that is effective. 

It’s funny, before the rework literally 100 per cent of my battles in my Dunkerque had a carrier in it. Even fully AA speed she could only shoot down a plane or two before getting deleted. I’ve only run her a few times since and oddly her survivability has gone up. Still, an interesting - but hard - ship to play well in. 

I think most low tier premiums don’t get a run much. Also, ships that were mostly dead-on-arrival like Kransky Krym or Duke of York are quite rare. I have noted a (anecdotal) increase in the numbers of Hood and Vanguard though, for no explicable reason. 

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There are many ways players could be encouraged to play certain tiers.

1st win bonus of the day, for X amount of days T4 ships have 100% (or more WG would have the data to determine the best amount). Have a rotating system. It doesn't even have to be on all the time, but having a few days where T4, then T5, then T6 enjoy an increased 1st win bonus would probably see increased player engagement with the tier. It could be a sum total of 9 days out of a month (3 days for each tier, again doesn't need to be constant thing). It doesn't even need to be in order, though in order would work well for progression purposes.

More combat mission incentive, tie to 1st win bonus or something else, earn X amount of Coal or resource for the chosen tier.

I don't know if it's within the capacity of the game but a combat mission that a player can pick up and link to a specific ship, could be Capt XP (this would have extra value on premiums), again you could still control tiers to stop everyone just dumping it on T9 premiums.

Edited by Meatshield_No13

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So rather than focusing solely on low tier premiums, are there any mid/high tier premiums that you'd like to see be brought back into relevance again?

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9 minutes ago, Umikami said:

I got to agree with Tai on this one; as it's the same reason I stopped playing Ark Beta; simply cannot compete against planes I can't touch. Tier 4 is a nightmare without AA, and no one at that tier, including Yubari and Iwaki Aplha, has any that is effective. 

Guess I wouldn’t really disagree in a broad sense.

Though as far as myself specifically, even in lower tiers, carriers don’t seem to bother me that much.

What usually makes me want to curse them out, at ALL tiers, is the whole vulture routine of coming along to pick on your barely clinging to life body after you’ve defeated 2-3 enemies in a close fight.

Strangely; a certain integer gets smaller after such incidents. Can’t seem to explain that.

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9 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

So rather than focusing solely on low tier premiums, are there any mid/high tier premiums that you'd like to see be brought back into relevance again?

WG has been buffing mid tier premiums in the last year such as Sims, Blys, Atlanta. I think they're just very slow about it cause it doesn't bring in much money and they don't want to overbuff them.

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1 hour ago, Ace_04 said:

So random thought here....

Was in a battle today and had a teammate sailing in an Ishizuchi.  Yes, I know....they do still exist.  But it had been so long since I'd seen one that I kinda forgot about that ship.

With that being said, is there anything that can be done (ie: buffs, events, promos, etc) to bring these old types of Premium Ships back into relevance again?

Other than for new players, is there any incentive for anybody to still play old Premiums like Ishizuchi, Dunkerque, or Z-39, considering the ever evolving power-creep in the game?

As always, I'll tag @Hapa_Fodder in this to get his opinion on this as well.

 

If you saw Ishizuchi in co-op that was probably me maybe :Smile_honoring: I am playing it because it's the only premium ship I have was trying to earn silver :Smile_coin:

Edited by LastRemnant

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37 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

What usually makes me want to curse them out, at ALL tiers, is the whole vulture routine of coming along to pick on your barely clinging to life body after you’ve defeated 2-3 enemies in a close fight.

That is one of the things I hate most about CVs: the way they ruin brawling. It's no coincidence that the CV plague has caused Russian server numbers to plummet -- they have a brawling meta there.

Edited by Taichunger

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14 minutes ago, LastRemnant said:

 

If you saw Ishizuchi in co-op that was probably me maybe :Smile_honoring: I am playing it because it's the only premium ship I have was trying to earn silver :Smile_coin:

Nope, not co-op.  Just randoms.

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8 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

Nope, not co-op.  Just randoms.

Yeah I am not going into randoms on that ship it has no AA at all I would be easy pickings for CVs especially if there was 3 CVs on the enemy :Smile_hiding:

Edited by LastRemnant

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1 hour ago, Ace_04 said:

So random thought here....

Was in a battle today and had a teammate sailing in an Ishizuchi.  Yes, I know....they do still exist.  But it had been so long since I'd seen one that I kinda forgot about that ship.

With that being said, is there anything that can be done (ie: buffs, events, promos, etc) to bring these old types of Premium Ships back into relevance again?

Other than for new players, is there any incentive for anybody to still play old Premiums like Ishizuchi, Dunkerque, or Z-39, considering the ever evolving power-creep in the game?

As always, I'll tag @Hapa_Fodder in this to get his opinion on this as well.

A problem that the Ishi has is that it's a tier 4, meaning that any battles you fight in her don't count for nearly any missions.  I happen to have the t4 Nikolai and she's a port queen for this very reason.

As for the Z-39, it's still a decent DD, but I've never liked her slow loading larger guns and prefer the T-61 much more.

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Giving the Atlanta 22mm base pen would be a nice buff for her. She has received massive nerfs to her AA and now her damage output with the CV and IFHE reworks.

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I don’t think that CVs are the main issue here (although I agree that 3 CVs per side is too much and I’m pro-CV) after all save a rare exception AA is not threatening to planes in low tiers, so it doesn’t matter that your ship has low/no-AA if the CV doesn’t care anyway.

So instead of giving my answer to OP’s question I’ll consider it through a different point of view:

Why play low tiers at all? (be it tech tree or premium):

- You are grinding a line.

- You want to play a specific ship.

- You want to seal club in low tiers.

- You simply like playing low tiers.

Depending on the above answer(s) a person will pick a specific ship(s) to satisfy the current requirement. Get enough people and eventually some one will pick a premium.

Low tier economics ( credits / FXP / captain XP / etc.) are not appealing, and there is no missions that can be completed there, so other than “for the playing experience” why play low tiers at all?.

TLDR: it’s not about the ships, it’s about the economics.

Edited by CO_Valle

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41 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

Indi could use some love

I disliked Indianapolis at first, but have grown to really enjoy her. Two things I would like to see with Indianapolis would be a somewhat better reload, say 10-12 seconds, and the Super Heavy shell that Baltimore gets.

Other than mounting radar, Indianapolis as it is now feels just like tech tree T7 New Orleans.

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5 minutes ago, Diesel_Thunder said:

I disliked Indianapolis at first, but have grown to really enjoy her. Two things I would like to see with Indianapolis would be a somewhat better reload, say 10-12 seconds, and the Super Heavy shell that Baltimore gets.

Other than mounting radar, Indianapolis as it is now feels just like tech tree T7 New Orleans.

Agreed. I played it alot more when Pency was t7.

The super heavy shells would be great.

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2 hours ago, Taichunger said:

I love Ishi and am solid in it. I think it is fine as it is. The problem is not that it is power creeped, but that it has no AA, so there is no point in playing it in the current low tier meta with the CV plague. 

 

2 hours ago, centarina said:

if you give zuchini some AA, it can be fire breathing dragon again  :D.   loved mine but havn't played much below t6 in almost 2 years.  

 

1 hour ago, LastRemnant said:

Yeah I am not going into randoms on that ship it has no AA at all I would be easy pickings for CVs especially if there was 3 CVs on the enemy :Smile_hiding:

I see a trend, and it happens to be the same reason that my Ishiz sits in port.

CV's just make that ship suck if the CV's find you, and because of your detection we all know they will find you.

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God, please buff Indianapolis. I adore that ship but radar being used as an excuse to offset its issues no longer applies today. It’s arguably one of, if not the, worst T7s overall. New Orleans is pretty much a straight upgrade over it.

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