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beakman317

Do not buy MAINZ!!!!! Save your money!!!

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Just a heads up for anyone wanting to purchase MAINZ, it is not worth it. I would very much recommend to not waste your money.  I have found its very similar to the armor layout as ATAGO,  2 or three volleys from the opposition(Which has been Tier 10 ships mostly as the Mainz is a tier 8 cruiser.) and your destroyed. When you actually consider the armor of the torpedo protection belt and then the citadel, you only have 45mm. It makes the rest of the ship's capabilities like the torpedo armament useless as you can't get close enough to anyone to fire them off.  In 5 different co-op battles, i haven't lasted 4 minutes in any match,  i found using either HE or AP ammo that my shots barely make a dent and every destroyer has me on fire  in multiple locations the moment their first volley hits me.     I am very dissatisfied with the purchase and i wish i could get a refund. :(

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Thats true, i didn't piece that together until its was too late, i was too amazed with the torpedo banks and 4x3 Main Battery to realize its a paper thin cruiser. Nobody to blame except myself unfortunately. lol

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8 minutes ago, TheGreatKiller26 said:

its a hipper

Hipper has better armor 

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1 hour ago, wstugamd said:

Hipper has better armor 

Mainz is still tougher than other CLs at tier. But that's not saying much.

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It kinda sucks when the alternative for a German tier 8 CA trainer is the Prinz Eugene, which has the Hipper armor + Heal, but weak offence. I'd honestly would rather have my money back with that ship because armor on a CA is a joke when your up against tier 10 guns, and having some of the worse offence of the tier sure makes it hard to carry.

 

PS. If you only last 4 minutes in a COOP game, probably means your trying to tank... which wont work in a CL of any kind. 

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Try fire spamming from long range at first. And then use islands to sneak up on and torpedo the remaining ships.

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8 minutes ago, sargentmki said:

It kinda sucks when the alternative for a German tier 8 CA trainer is the Prinz Eugene, which has the Hipper armor + Heal, but weak offence. I'd honestly would rather have my money back with that ship because armor on a CA is a joke when your up against tier 10 guns, and having some of the worse offence of the tier sure makes it hard to carry.

 

PS. If you only last 4 minutes in a COOP game, probably means your trying to tank... which wont work in a CL of any kind. 

I swear, some of you guys would complain if you were going to be hung with a golden rope.

The Prinz Eugen is just fine.  You're in a tier 8 CA with 17.5 km gun range.  When you're in a tier 10 battle, that gun range will really shine.  And the Eugen's bow (last I knew) could auto-bounce 15" shells.  If the armor on the Eugen was any better it would be obnoxiously OP when top tier.

 

1 hour ago, beakman317 said:

Just a heads up for anyone wanting to purchase MAINZ, it is not worth it. I would very much recommend to not waste your money.  I have found its very similar to the armor layout as ATAGO,  2 or three volleys from the opposition(Which has been Tier 10 ships mostly as the Mainz is a tier 8 cruiser.) and your destroyed. When you actually consider the armor of the torpedo protection belt and then the citadel, you only have 45mm. It makes the rest of the ship's capabilities like the torpedo armament useless as you can't get close enough to anyone to fire them off.  In 5 different co-op battles, i haven't lasted 4 minutes in any match,  i found using either HE or AP ammo that my shots barely make a dent and every destroyer has me on fire  in multiple locations the moment their first volley hits me.     I am very dissatisfied with the purchase and i wish i could get a refund. :(

If you can't last more than 4 minutes in coop, that's all on YOU and only YOU!!!

And just because you have torpedoes (in a cruiser) does NOT mean that you have to go on suicide torp runs to use them.  You're in a Light Cruiser, for crying out loud.  Your guns are your primary weapons.  Your torps are an afterthought.

 

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1 hour ago, TheGreatKiller26 said:

its a hipper

Not exactly; it's a Hipper hull with nerfed armor, and I guess severely nerfed at that. Read Mouse's review, cleared it up for me (as in notice I didn't buy one!)

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1 hour ago, Lert said:

Mainz is still tougher than other CLs at tier. But that's not saying much.

When it was in development and had Hipper hull I was excited

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30 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I swear, some of you guys would complain if you were going to be hung with a golden rope.

The Prinz Eugen is just fine.  You're in a tier 8 CA with 17.5 km gun range.  When you're in a tier 10 battle, that gun range will really shine.  And the Eugen's bow (last I knew) could auto-bounce 15" shells.  If the armor on the Eugen was any better it would be obnoxiously OP when top tier.

I'm not worried about getting killed by tier 10 bbs at 17.5km range (what CA would be?). I'm more worried about not being able to do enough with the limited ROF, limited HE and fire damage the PE has. The AP can be fantastic, but the lack of DPM means even in the best offensive positions, the Prince is weak to capitalize compared to all the other cruisers and battleships of the tier. The average loss I see in the PE is my team slowly getting killed off while I'm unable to punish red team in a timely manor. 

Armor is good if you need to survive but offensive is where you impact the game the most (at least for the CA class), and in that regard, the Prinz is low on the totem pole. 

Currently I play the ship "out in the open" and bait anything and everything to try and draw fire and waste the enemies time fighting me, instead of other ships. It works most of the time, but like I said, if red team is busy slapping allied ships, armor does nothing for me and my ability to win. The ship is one of my more consistent ships, but it isn't one of the ships I'd pick for winning a lot of games.

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4 minutes ago, sargentmki said:

I'm not worried about getting killed by tier 10 bbs at 17.5km range (what CA would be?). I'm more worried about not being able to do enough with the limited ROF, limited HE and fire damage the PE has. The AP can be fantastic, but the lack of DPM means even in the best offensive positions, the Prince is weak to capitalize compared to all the other cruisers and battleships of the tier. The average loss I see in the PE is my team slowly getting killed off while I'm unable to punish red team in a timely manor. 

Armor is good if you need to survive but offensive is where you impact the game the most (at least for the CA class), and in that regard, the Prinz is low on the totem pole. 

Currently I play the ship "out in the open" and bait anything and everything to try and draw fire and waste the enemies time fighting me, instead of other ships. It works most of the time, but like I said, if red team is busy slapping allied ships, armor does nothing for me and my ability to win. The ship is one of my more consistent ships, but it isn't one of the ships I'd pick for winning a lot of games.

I agree that the PE's HE isn't the greatest, but it's not horrible.  But a key to the PE's damage production is mixing in some AP volleys when you have good opportunities, because it still has that excellent German AP.

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The couple I've seen seemed to do well, including one monster game where he kited furiously while lighting everything on fire. But that's a small sample size. 

Still, she's a CL. The armor nerf was disappointing, but she's got a lot of HP for a CL. I doubt she'll ever be super popular because she's going to be a bit mediocre from all accounts, but some of your comments about the torpedoes and about not being able to last more than five minutes in a co-op game do suggest the problem is with the player as much or more as with the ship. 

Edited by poeticmotion

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25 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I agree that the PE's HE isn't the greatest, but it's not horrible.  But a key to the PE's damage production is mixing in some AP volleys when you have good opportunities, because it still has that excellent German AP.

I do think my shot selection isn't up to par (I fire to much HE all the time), I'm not saying that PE is a bad ship, it just isn't great, just kinda boring.

Getting shot at isn't my idea of a "good time" haha

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

I swear, some of you guys would complain if you were going to be hung with a golden rope.

The Prinz Eugen is just fine.  You're in a tier 8 CA with 17.5 km gun range.  When you're in a tier 10 battle, that gun range will really shine.  And the Eugen's bow (last I knew) could auto-bounce 15" shells.  If the armor on the Eugen was any better it would be obnoxiously OP when top tier.

 

If you can't last more than 4 minutes in coop, that's all on YOU and only YOU!!!

And just because you have torpedoes (in a cruiser) does NOT mean that you have to go on suicide torp runs to use them.  You're in a Light Cruiser, for crying out loud.  Your guns are your primary weapons.  Your torps are an afterthought.

 

Happy Festivus - Imgur

:Smile_honoring:

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41 minutes ago, sargentmki said:

I do think my shot selection isn't up to par (I fire to much HE all the time), I'm not saying that PE is a bad ship, it just isn't great, just kinda boring.

Getting shot at isn't my idea of a "good time" haha

While I can appreciate that getting shot at isn't always fun, open water stealth firing is long gone.  So, unless you intend to fire from behind islands or smoke, you have to expose yourself to fire your guns in most cruisers.  And frankly, it can be sort of fun to be good enough to avoid a lot of incoming fire.

As for the PE being kinda boring, I'd say that it's no more or less boring than the Hipper.  The Hipper has a better RoF, the Eugen is more survivable.

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Sorry, bud, but you're wrong. Mainz is actually very, very strong. Also, if you're only making it 4 minutes in Co-op, that is 100% on you for yolo-ing in, in a light cruiser.

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11 hours ago, beakman317 said:

Just a heads up for anyone wanting to purchase MAINZ, it is not worth it. I would very much recommend to not waste your money.  I have found its very similar to the armor layout as ATAGO,  2 or three volleys from the opposition(Which has been Tier 10 ships mostly as the Mainz is a tier 8 cruiser.) and your destroyed. When you actually consider the armor of the torpedo protection belt and then the citadel, you only have 45mm. It makes the rest of the ship's capabilities like the torpedo armament useless as you can't get close enough to anyone to fire them off.  In 5 different co-op battles, i haven't lasted 4 minutes in any match,  i found using either HE or AP ammo that my shots barely make a dent and every destroyer has me on fire  in multiple locations the moment their first volley hits me.     I am very dissatisfied with the purchase and i wish i could get a refund. :(

@Crucis is right on the money.

I'm sorry for your dissatisfaction, but before you throw in the towel, changing playing practices and mastering a new ship can be very gratifying.  I have many ships that I disliked when I first got them but now really enjoy playing.

As a cruiser main with a strong preference for the German cruisers, I was totally thrilled when the Mainz went on sale this week.  Of all of the announced premium/special German ships, this was the one I was looking forward to the most.

I've totally fallen in love with this ship.  That's not only because I have a bias for the nation and class, but because I find her game play as a long-range artillery cruiser as engrossing and challenging.  I have few concerns when uptiered because it means I can earn more XP doing damage to higher-tier ships, and I challenge myself to play well under the more demanding conditions.

So a few comments on your post.

  • As a general practice, it's advisable to only spend money on premium ships that you research thoroughly in advance and understand what you are getting into.  If you're not sure, play a similar type of ship and get comfortable with its play style before committing.  In this case, learning the Nürnberg would be a better comparison to the Mainz's play style than the Hipper's.
  • Enjoying cruisers, whether premium or tech-tree, requires learning good cruiser practices.  Without understanding and applying these practices, premium cruiser purchases are often frustrating and dissatisfying.
  • The vast majority of cruisers are vulnerable to focused fire, especially battleship salvos.  This goes back to good cruiser practices; learning how to position, angle, and choose your engagements so that you aren't an easy kill.
  • The Mainz is a long-range machine gun.  90+% of the time you are spamming shells from range, using terrain, angling and distraction to pour unrelenting fire on your opponents.
  • The torpedo systems on the Mainz are not her primary armament.  They are for ambush situations only.
  • When playing in co-op, stay in the back, use terrain to fire from concealment, and spam the crap out of the bots as they mindlessly sail forward.  Also, bots are often way more accurate than humans, so firing from concealment or working distracted bots is often the better method in co-op.

Good luck.

Edited by AnIolairGhorm
grammar correction
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Hey

People would do themselves better to think of Mainz less like a Hipper and more like a T8 Nurnberg.  It's a good boat when you remember your armor, play it at range, burn everything unless your closer then the AP can wreck other broadside cruisers, the gun are very good at killing DD's because of the DPM.  The torps are typical German and if you can push a BB, they will deal massive damage but maybe not kill him outright.  I do wish Wargaming has standardized things better and gave the Mainz a heal (in keeping with Prinz Eugen) or at least the very least the better armor of Hipper since Mainz is based on that hull, it still wouldn't be OP by any measure.  My biggest single complaint is the slower rudder shift; especially considering both Hipper and PE have a better rudder shift and this in a light cruiser so technically it's lighter and should have a faster rudder shift.  If they increased the rudder shift and not increased the armor or gave it a heal, I would be good with her.  Right now I feel double steering gears would be very nice, but then your detection really suffers for a light cruiser.  It's a decent boat of a different flavor. 

 

Pete

Edited by sasquatch_research
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49 minutes ago, sasquatch_research said:

Hey

People would do themselves better to think of Mainz less like a Hipper and more like a T8 Nurnberg.  It's a good boat when you remember your armor, play it at range, burn everything unless your closer then the AP can wreck other broadside cruisers, the gun are very good at killing DD's because of the DPM.  The torps are typical German and if you can push a BB, they will deal massive damage but maybe not kill him outright.  I do wish Wargaming has standardized things better and gave the Mainz a heal (in keeping with Prinz Eugen) or at least the very least the better armor of Hipper since Mainz is based on that hull, it still wouldn't be OP by any measure.  My biggest single complaint is the slower rudder shift; especially considering both Hipper and PE have a better rudder shift and this in a light cruiser so technically it's lighter and should have a faster rudder shift.  If they increased the rudder shift and not increased the armor or gave it a heal, I would be good with her.  Right now I feel double steering gears would be very nice, but then you detection really suffers for a light cruiser.  It's a decent boat of a different flavor. 

 

Pete

Very well put, Pete, on all counts.  I think Repair Party might make her too strong for tier-VIII, but I too would prefer she get the same armor as the Prinz Eugen.

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18 hours ago, Crucis said:

While I can appreciate that getting shot at isn't always fun, open water stealth firing is long gone.  So, unless you intend to fire from behind islands or smoke, you have to expose yourself to fire your guns in most cruisers.  And frankly, it can be sort of fun to be good enough to avoid a lot of incoming fire.

As for the PE being kinda boring, I'd say that it's no more or less boring than the Hipper.  The Hipper has a better RoF, the Eugen is more survivable.

The ship can't fire from behind islands, from smoke (unless someone gives it to you?), or corner fire very well (where you can fire around the corner of an island, but the enemy still can't see you... its op), or ambush well beyond 1 volley. So yea you have to be shooting out in the open, and it just isn't very good at it in the best of situations. 

The Hipper is also more maneuverable, slightly more stealthy (like by .7km), and has slightly more base health (weird right?). It plays more "cruiser like" as it is better at dodging and shooting things (both of which is what most cruisers need to be doing)

I've just realized I've more or less hijacked this thread with my complaints about an unrelated ship. Gonna stop after this post haha.

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24 minutes ago, sargentmki said:

The ship can't fire from behind islands, from smoke (unless someone gives it to you?), or corner fire very well (where you can fire around the corner of an island, but the enemy still can't see you... its op), or ambush well beyond 1 volley. So yea you have to be shooting out in the open, and it just isn't very good at it in the best of situations. 

The Hipper is also more maneuverable, slightly more stealthy (like by .7km), and has slightly more base health (weird right?). It plays more "cruiser like" as it is better at dodging and shooting things (both of which is what most cruisers need to be doing)

I've just realized I've more or less hijacked this thread with my complaints about an unrelated ship. Gonna stop after this post haha.

It is weird that the Hipper is more maneuverable than the Mainz.  I can understand not wanting to give her a Repair Party for balance, but it doesn't seem right that the Mainz should be less maneuverable than the Hippers, particularly since she'll never be the sort of CL that can easily shoot from behind islands due to the velocity of her shells and their low trajectories.

 

Side note: I thought that the Mainz (by another name though) was IRL a Hipper with the 8" gun turrets switch out for 6" gun turrets, but I can't seem to find a source.  I thought that Wikipedia used to have a few lines on this, but I just looked an couldn't find anything.

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21 hours ago, sargentmki said:

Currently I play the ship "out in the open" and bait anything and everything to try and draw fire and waste the enemies time fighting me, instead of other ships. It works most of the time, but like I said, if red team is busy slapping allied ships, armor does nothing for me and my ability to win. The ship is one of my more consistent ships, but it isn't one of the ships I'd pick for winning a lot of games.

This sounds like a good random battle strategy. The OP was trying to use her in Coop where this strategy might help the team win (as if they typically need the help) but won't get you much damage for your effort. This is one of those ships that might be more tuned to randoms than coop. 

 

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50 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Side note: I thought that the Mainz (by another name though) was IRL a Hipper with the 8" gun turrets switch out for 6" gun turrets, but I can't seem to find a source.  I thought that Wikipedia used to have a few lines on this, but I just looked an couldn't find anything.

In initial/historical concept maybe. WGs implementation however seems to have nerfed it badly. Not sure why.

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