Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
Admiral_Hippo

Canadian ships

34 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

216
[COMRD]
Members
243 posts
5,163 battles

I think its about time Canadas role in WW2 is recognized here. During the battle of the Atlantic Canadas ASW force were second to none. I realise that most of Canadas ships

were adopted from other navies but so were Japans. How about a string of DDs.

Oh and BTW, there were only three countries that stormed the beaches of Normandie on June 6: Britain, the US and Canada.

  • Cool 3
  • Funny 2
  • Boring 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,140
[PISD]
Members
1,836 posts
6,086 battles
40 minutes ago, Admiral_Hippo said:

I think its about time Canadas role in WW2 is recognized here. During the battle of the Atlantic Canadas ASW force were second to none. I realise that most of Canadas ships

were adopted from other navies but so were Japans. How about a string of DDs.

Oh and BTW, there were only three countries that stormed the beaches of Normandie on June 6: Britain, the US and Canada.

There is more chances to see a commonwealth navy with ships from Canada, Australia, India and New Zealand. All together they could scrap enough ships/ ships design to creat a full tree.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,387
[WOLFC]
Members
2,533 posts
10,981 battles

I would not be surprised if we see a Commonwealth destroyer or cruiser branch in the not so distant future, with a mixture of Canadian, Australian, Kiwi, and maybe even Indian ships. The trick will be distinguishing the ships from their RN counterparts.

Either that, or if there are no intentions for a Commonwealth tech tree it would be nice if WG would make UK and Commonwealth captains interchangeable. There are already several dual nation captains in the game, so it should be technically possible. 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15,228
[ARGSY]
Members
23,285 posts
17,234 battles

We have the Haida already.

HMCS Ontario would be nice at Tier 8 (imagine 3 Neptune turrets on a slightly tweaked Edinburgh hull). 

Oh, BTW, Japan built most of her own ships starting in WW1 and moving forward. You might be mixing her up with the Pan-Asian ships, which are EXCLUSIVELY transfers from other navies.

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu
  • Cool 1
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
285
[TAZ]
Members
877 posts
46 minutes ago, panamaz28 said:

sounds great !!!   im in.   anything is better than the polish ships !!!! 

They are not Polish ships; they are Swedish ships!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,485
[BNKR]
[BNKR]
Members
2,813 posts
2,663 battles

After subs, we might see a Commonwealth line specialized in ASW, especially considering Canada's significant role in the Battle of the Atlantic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41,661
[WG-CC]
WoWS Community Contributors
12,480 posts
10,567 battles

If Wargaming is smart, they won't release a series of Canadian destroyers until Submarines are greenlit for Random Battle play.  That's really where the Royal Canadian Navy specialized during WW1 and WW2 -- convoy escort and anti-submarine warfare.  A few people, myself included, have theorized what a British Commonwealth destroyer tech tree might look like.  The big problem here is that making a full tech tree will invariably leave some countries out.  Some notes:

  • Australia has the most experience with a large variety of hull types, having had to see to their own naval defense since pre-WWI.  It is entirely possible to construct a full destroyer tech tree using only destroyers used by the Royal Australian Navy.  This would be similar to how the Pan European line is currently made almost entirely of Swedish ships.  Though they used British designs, they tended to pry off one of the torpedo mountings in order to improve AA firepower.
  • Canada had one of the largest navies by end of WW2, however it was almost entirely focused on convoy escort duties and anti-submarine warfare.  There are next to no Canadian ships from the WW1 era that could be used to populate the lower-tiers for a destroyer tech tree, leaving a noticeable gap.  Similarly, they lack very-high tier destroyers, having relied upon and converted the Tribal-class (tier VII/VIII max) for that role post-war.  However there are a glut of mid-tier destroyers that would make very interesting tech-tree ships and/or premiums.  My top vote would be the eight-gun QF 102mm Mk-XVI  Tribal, HMCS Micmac, if only for the sake of providing a variety in game play.  Like the Australians, Canadians tended to use borrowed British designs and converted them for convoy escort duties.  This largely involved compromising the number of torpedoes carried or the main battery armament (a further strike against Canadian ships in World of Warships) in favour of anti-submarine weapons.
  • India and Pakistan didn't have any suitable ships for World of Warships until after the Second World War where they acquired British destroyers such as the R & Hunt-class (India) and the Battle (Jutland)-class (Pakistan). 
  • South Africa had almost no navy during WW2.  Post war, they acquired some British W-class destroyers.
  • New Zealand is in a bit of a rough spot to be included in the tech tree -- she didn't use destroyers.  She had a host of smaller vessels but they're not suitable for World of Warships.  She did have cruisers though -- most famously HMNZS Achilles who helped fight Graf Spee.
  • It goes on like this...

Thus the likely shape we'll see a British Commonwealth tech tree is either a full Australian line or MAYBE a few Canadian ships tossed in.  Maybe. 

Edited by LittleWhiteMouse
  • Cool 4
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
105
[ARRSE]
Members
214 posts
1,407 battles

WG just needs to stop subdividing the RN into non-historical separate factions and allow it to stand in the game as a single entity - including its integrated Dominion branches. Empire and Commonwealth naval assets acted under a single unifying organisation during the game time frame.

 

In game it would thus be a simple matter of adding in as many notable Dominion ships as required - either as RN premiums or as silver ships within RN lines.

 

 

  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
216
[COMRD]
Members
243 posts
5,163 battles

Ensign Cthulhu, Check the heavies. Most have tripod masts, a British design, which were bought between the wars.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,684
[PVE]
Members
20,163 posts
13,049 battles
39 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

If Wargaming is smart, they won't release a series of Canadian destroyers until Submarines are greenlit for Random Battle play.  That's really where the Royal Canadian Navy specialized during WW1 and WW2 -- convoy escort and anti-submarine warfare.  A few people, myself included, have theorized what a British Commonwealth destroyer tech tree might look like.  The big problem here is that making a full tech tree will invariably leave some countries out.  Some notes:

  • Australia has the most experience with a large variety of hull types, having had to see to their own naval defense since pre-WWI.  It is entirely possible to construct a full destroyer tech tree using only destroyers used by the Royal Australian Navy.  This would be similar to how the Pan European line is currently made almost entirely of Swedish ships.  Though they used British designs, they tended to pry off one of the torpedo mountings in order to improve AA firepower.
  • Canada had one of the largest navies by end of WW2, however it was almost entirely focused on convoy escort duties and anti-submarine warfare.  There are next to no Canadian ships from the WW1 era that could be used to populate the lower-tiers for a destroyer tech tree, leaving a noticeable gap.  Similarly, they lack very-high tier destroyers, having relied upon and converted the Tribal-class (tier VII/VIII max) for that role post-war.  However there are a glut of mid-tier destroyers that would make very interesting tech-tree ships and/or premiums.  My top vote would be the eight-gun QF 102mm Mk-XVI  Tribal, HMCS Micmac, if only for the sake of providing a variety in game play.  Like the Australians, Canadians tended to use borrowed British designs and converted them for convoy escort duties.  This largely involved compromising the number of torpedoes carried or the main battery armament (a further strike against Canadian ships in World of Warships) in favour of anti-submarine weapons.
  • India and Pakistan didn't have any suitable ships for World of Warships until after the Second World War where they acquired British destroyers such as the R & Hunt-class (India) and the Battle (Jutland)-class (Pakistan). 
  • South Africa had almost no navy during WW2.  Post war, they acquired some British W-class destroyers.
  • New Zealand is in a bit of a rough spot to be included in the tech tree -- she didn't use destroyers.  She had a host of smaller vessels but they're not suitable for World of Warships.  She did have cruisers though -- most famously HMNZS Achilles who helped fight Graf Spee.
  • It goes on like this...

Thus the likely shape we'll see a British Commonwealth tech tree is either a full Australian line or MAYBE a few Canadian ships tossed in.  Maybe. 

 

 Canada did get some Wickes and Clemsons as a part of the Lend Lease, so they could fill in T3 & T4. There is an old RCN DD that could fill T2 with an interesting history.

 

T1 CL HMCS Stormont K327 River class Frigate (sold to Aristotle Onassis who converted it to the yacht Christina O.) 

T2 DD HMCS Patrician  (The RCN used the Thornycraft M class which was roughly similar to the Medea class and the Patrician chased some bank thieves who were trying to escape to the US)

T3 DD HMCS Niagara I57 or HMCS St Clair I65 (both Wickes class DDs, Niagara helped capture U-570 and St. Clair was part of the action (attacked by air) of the Hunt for Bismarck. I vote St Clair)

T4 DD HMCS St Croix I81 (Clemson class DD) sank U-Boat U-90

T5 DD  HMCS Saguenay D79 (built in Canada to match Acasta class)

T6 DD HMCS Ottawa H31 or HMCS Chaudiere H99  (Ottawa was formerly HMS Griffin G-class and Chaudiere was formerly HMS Hero H class)

T7 DD HMCS Huron  G24 (Tribal, but a Haida type variant)

T7 premium DD HMCS Haida (already in-game)

T8 DD HMCS Cayuga (Tribal, but a Cossack type variant)

T9 DD paper Canadian Battle class variant

T10 DD paper Canadian Daring class variant

 

Other possible premium ships

T7/T8 CL HMCS Uganda C66 (Fiji class, but balanced to have RADAR as she was a RADAR picket as HMCS Uganda)

T5 CV HMS Nabob (Bogue class crewed by RCN personnel, was in operations to sink the Tirpitz in Norway)

T7/T8 CL HMCS Ontario C53 ("Minotaur" class variant which is actually a variant of the Crown Colony class like Fiji. Not the T10 Minotaur as I originally thought)

 

 

As for subs and their release, I still firmly believe that keeping subs in their own battle mode with Destroyers and Escorts (DDEs) would be the best way to balance them and you get a whole new class of ships to make lines for. Not to mention premiums like Samuel B Roberts.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
889
[HELLS]
Members
2,796 posts
30,389 battles
1 minute ago, Kizarvexis said:

As for subs and their release, I still firmly believe that keeping subs in their own battle mode with Destroyers and Escorts (DDEs) would be the best way to balance them and you get a whole new class of ships to make lines for. Not to mention premiums like Samuel B Roberts.

Let us ASW guys be turned loose!! Convoy battles with the occasional  surface raider for variety!! Low-tier corvettes, Black Swan sloops and low-tier DDs take on a whole new meaning!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41,661
[WG-CC]
WoWS Community Contributors
12,480 posts
10,567 battles
4 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

 Canada did get some Wickes and Clemsons as a part of the Lend Lease, so they could fill in T3 & T4. There is an old RCN DD that could fill T2 with an interesting history.

I'm aware -- the issue is that these destroyers do not mirror their American counterparts.  There were no double-barreled Canadian Clemsons.  HMCS St.Croix had her armament gutted for the sake of sea-keeping in the North Atlantic, so unless Wargaming gears a lot of these lower-tiered proposed Canadian ships to having anti-submarine bonuses, they're going to be a hard sell at the tiers we might otherwise expect them to fulfill. 

  • Cool 2
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,387
[WOLFC]
Members
2,533 posts
10,981 battles
3 hours ago, Admiral_Hippo said:

were adopted from other navies but so were Japans. How about a string of DDs

 

2 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Oh, BTW, Japan built most of her own ships starting in WW1 and moving forward. You might be mixing her up with the Pan-Asian ships, which are EXCLUSIVELY transfers from other navies.

IIRC correctly, the last major Japanese warship built by/purchased from a foreign power was Kongo. She was designed and built in Britain, and her sisters were built in Japan using the knowledge and experience gained during her construction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,684
[PVE]
Members
20,163 posts
13,049 battles
1 hour ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

I'm aware -- the issue is that these destroyers do not mirror their American counterparts.  There were no double-barreled Canadian Clemsons.  HMCS St.Croix had her armament gutted for the sake of sea-keeping in the North Atlantic, so unless Wargaming gears a lot of these lower-tiered proposed Canadian ships to having anti-submarine bonuses, they're going to be a hard sell at the tiers we might otherwise expect them to fulfill. 

True, but even if they were exact copies, you would want to do something to differentiate them from the US Wickes and Clemsons anyway. And it is not like WG couldn't make tweaks ala Mutsu to fit them in as DDs.

Edited by Kizarvexis
spelling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
324 posts
1 hour ago, IsThatreallyTheplan said:

What's the difference?   :cap_cool:

Anyone who is Swedish or Polish will not be happy to hear you say that.  

 

The Swedes and the Poles are very different culturally, linguistically, and religiously.  The only thing that relates them is the fact that they are both "Europeans" and share the same geographical area of being nations next to the Baltic sea. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
324 posts
1 hour ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

I'm aware -- the issue is that these destroyers do not mirror their American counterparts.  There were no double-barreled Canadian Clemsons.  HMCS St.Croix had her armament gutted for the sake of sea-keeping in the North Atlantic, so unless Wargaming gears a lot of these lower-tiered proposed Canadian ships to having anti-submarine bonuses, they're going to be a hard sell at the tiers we might otherwise expect them to fulfill. 

 

19 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

True, but even if they were exact copies, you would want to do something to differentiate them from the US Wickes and Clemsons anyway. And it is not like WG couldn't make tweaks ala Mutsu to fit them in as DDs.

What LittleWhiteMouse is saying is that it would not be any simple matter of just adding more Clemsons or Wickes under the Canadian flag into the game without giving those ships SOMETHING that differentiates them (or makes them unique) compared to the actual USS Wickes and USS Clemson that already in the game as the Tier III and Tier IV USN destroyers respectively.   Not to mention that if the Canadian Wickes and Clemson WERE to be added, Wargaming would have to be honest to the historical weapons loadout that the ships had.

TL DR:  It would be difficult to differentiate the Canadian Wickes and Clemsons to the American counterparts. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,684
[PVE]
Members
20,163 posts
13,049 battles
10 minutes ago, Ciryandil said:

 

What LittleWhiteMouse is saying is that it would not be any simple matter of just adding more Clemsons or Wickes under the Canadian flag into the game without giving those ships SOMETHING that differentiates them (or makes them unique) compared to the actual USS Wickes and USS Clemson that already in the game as the Tier III and Tier IV USN destroyers respectively.   Not to mention that if the Canadian Wickes and Clemson WERE to be added, Wargaming would have to be honest to the historical weapons loadout that the ships had.

TL DR:  It would be difficult to differentiate the Canadian Wickes and Clemsons to the American counterparts. 

My reading of her post was more about the Wickes and Clemsons being de-gunned for escort duties than not being able to differentiate from the US versions. I'm willing to be corrected if I misunderstood her intentions.

I'm sure WG could come up with something to make them a little different from the US versions if necessary. As for the de-gunning and keeping with the historical weapons loadout, Mutsu would like to have a talk with you. As I understand it, there are weapons fits from multiple iterations of the battleship to give us the Mutsu we have in-game. Not  to mention the various other ships in game that are changed from their historical selves to be balanced in WoWs.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
717 posts
19,884 battles
3 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

(imagine 3 Neptune turrets on a slightly tweaked Edinburgh hull).

Quick note, Ontario was fitted with the Mk. XXIII turrets from the Town/Crown Colony classes, not the Mk. XXV planned for the Neptunes.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
253
[IROCZ]
Banned
301 posts
24,412 battles
3 hours ago, Nutaz said:

They are not Polish ships; they are Swedish ships!!!

,,,

Edited by panamaz28

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
717 posts
19,884 battles
1 minute ago, panamaz28 said:

BUILT in Sweden,  then sold to Poland,  hence  its a polish ship, don't care who built it, if its flying the flag of whatever country, its that countries ship.

Uh, this doesn't apply to any ship in game?

Blyskawica and Grom were armed with Bofors guns, but both were built in the UK. Orkan was a British DD transferred to Poland.

We just got nearly an entire tree of Swedish ships which is what he's talking about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,918
Alpha Tester, Alpha Tester
11,449 posts
1,963 battles
1 hour ago, Kizarvexis said:

True, but even if they were exact copies, you would want to do something to differentiate them from the US Wickes and Clemsons anyway. And it is not like WG couldn't make tweaks ala Mutsu to fit them in as DDs.

You mean like the British premium Campbeltown, which represents the most viable form of the Lend Lease destroyers? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15,228
[ARGSY]
Members
23,285 posts
17,234 battles
1 hour ago, Kingpin61 said:

Quick note, Ontario was fitted with the Mk. XXIII turrets from the Town/Crown Colony classes, not the Mk. XXV planned for the Neptunes.

*checks*

Yep, I stand corrected.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×