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Doobie_Snax

Petropavlovsk Tier X cruiser (BROKE-AF)

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I'm going to try to touch base with active members of the community despite my better judgement on the matter. Trying to  be as polite as I can possibly manage while I explain this point in the most concise way possible without failing to get the point across; hold onto your neck beards.

If you're on this forum, I assume you've played at least one WG title for a semi-decent amount of time; perhaps dropped a bit of coin on it...kewl...

I have a seven plus year old account because I started playing world of tanks back when it was starting to blow up. It was good, not bangin' but good. Good waste of time, good way to drop a twenty and get a tiny high off your shiny tank camo; whatever. As far as I was concerned they were a bunch of Russian who managed to pump out a solid title without a corp like EA sized backing them. Which even seven plus years ago was a dying kind of breed. So screw it, I didn't feel bad about the cash.

My friend and I even got the Churchill (Also in the russian tier despite being an english tank given to them) and we laughed about how ruthlessly OP it was in that tier... But you know something, they eventually fixed it. When I went back on WOT to see if the churchill was still broken, a matter of curiosity after seeing recent developments of warships. I wasn't honestly shocked to see they toned it down to a reasonable level. 

So here I am, ready to try out world of warships, because screw it.. It was on the back burner for a while, I didn't want to invest the grind into another freemium game but corona virus I guess so here we are.

And I see this... On youtube, ironically recommended to me because of watching the official tuts.. 

 

 

We need to make a stand here man, we need to pull a red dawn on this right quick. I want you to tell all your friends, all your sweaty nerds, all your weebs; and we will form from that a union christened by a thousand tears of the victims of not just pay to win; but pay to get brutalized. And from those delicious tears a new republic will foam to the surface, like frothy milk in my cappuccino. A neckbeard republic. And we will win the day.

 

We get it, you're russian, cool. You want to make your stuff the best... Cool. At least admit that's childish, I know it's not a military simulator but you're not playing to your REAL paying audience, who's that one dude reading this who looked up Azur Lane rule 34; you know who you are.   

If premium was a little bit OP.. Hey whatever, it's your game, you're a business now I get it. But this is what a broken game looks like, this is the kind of thing that takes the people who enjoy the sport of competitive play and eviscerate their faith in the good will of your staff, nerfing the wrong ships or factions. It's beyond historical revisionism it's shallow gameplay hinging on money instead of leaning on it for support.

TLDR

So please, anyone reading this, red dawn this ship in the cradle with me; let's make them hear the community to get this thing back on track so we can cry about submarines when those come out instead. Thanks

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It's W.I.P. Hold the sabre rattling for a bit...

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1 hour ago, Khafni said:

It's W.I.P. Hold the sabre rattling for a bit...

Surely you jest!

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Umm can somebody please give me a quick summary on exactly what is going on with the ship in question that has spawned this thread?

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A) it’s a work in progress ship, so things are still likely to change

B) it’s a ship that sacrifices pen and accuracy at longer range for improved performance at short range (or at least it’s supposed to, according to the plans) and at least in both Flambass videos he’s shooting mostly at ships showing a complete broadside at sub 8km, and most of the long range shots aren’t that effective. Most CAs would be able to do similar things in that situation, including ships like DM or Moskva. So that must mean you think ships like DM are broken too, right?

 

Do I think the short range pen is too much? Yes. And a lot of testers agree, but when you get ideal situations with players that don’t really know what they’re doing (aka showing broadside to anything with cruiser size guns and up at short range, especially ships like Venezia/Yamato/Kremlin with raised vulnerable citadels that a lot of ships can pen), a ship that’s designed to shine in that situation will shine. Plus, in the case of both Flambass videos and the Daniel Rusev video, you have cherry picked games from (at least for Flambass) good players. If you were in that position making a WIP video for a new ship, are you going to pick a game where your results are kind of meh or a game where you have a great performance?

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The only legitimate retort is that they might change it honestly, plenty of those shots fell into hull at like a fourty or fifty degree turn and were still magically better than battleship guns. I've now watched enough of the game to see how ridiculous this is, no need to attempt to play it down.

 

The truth is I have very little vested interest at all besides casual play into the game but the fact I have no bias coming into this with fresh eyes should be alarming to you and somehow it isn't. Because I want to love this game and basically it's dead on arrival for me. Look at the general consensus for example in the youtube comments of those video.

 

The general consensus is that every Russian boat comes out OP. People ask for it to be toned down. Then WG goes cheeki breeki releases it as it is and nerfs something else. Is a veritable wall of text cherry picked? They literally put quotes around the word play because frustration fuels WGs bank account. The only thing cherry picked was your straw man, actually watch the video.

But you're right I'm going to pick the game I do good at without copiously grinding or dropping coin, this post is for your sake because there's a silent majority who wont even bother letting the vet community or WG loyalists know the truth about people like me who might have intently picked the game up, but dropped it right quick.

Edited by Doobie_Snax

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49 minutes ago, Doobie_Snax said:

The only legitimate retort is that they might change it honestly, plenty of those shots fell into hull at like a fourty or fifty degree turn and were still magically better than battleship guns. I've now watched enough of the game to see how ridiculous this is, no need to attempt to play it down.

The truth is I have very little vested interest at all besides casual play into the game but the fact I have no bias coming into this with fresh eyes should be alarming to you and somehow it isn't. Because I want to love this game and basically it's dead on arrival for me. Look at the general consensus for example in the youtube comments of those video.

The general consensus is that every Russian boat comes out OP. People ask for it to be toned down. Then WG goes cheeki breeki releases it as it is and nerfs something else. Is a veritable wall of text cherry picked? They literally put quotes around the word play because frustration fuels WGs bank account. The only thing cherry picked was your straw man, actually watch the video.

But you're right I'm going to pick the game I do good at without copiously grinding or dropping coin, this post is for your sake because there's a silent majority who wont even bother letting the vet community or WG loyalists know the truth about people like me who might have intently picked the game up, but dropped it right quick.

You'd have a better chance at loving this game by actually playing it and experiencing it for yourself.  Then once you experienced it for yourself you'd learn that there are actually quite a few Russian ships that are in need of buffs.  Then once you learn thaaaaat, you'll realize that there is a very small, yet highly vocal group of miserable individuals in this game that will complain about anything and everything without question regardless of not having actually experienced it themselves all because it's different and new.  They will criticize regardless of the status of the ship - underpowered, overpowered, work-in-progress - because they, themselves, filter everything through this miserable lens, then go on to repeat said misconceptions as facts because it fits their life narrative.

Don't be one of those guys, please.

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Lol I bet most the ones that need buffs are the ones that got nerfed to begin with. But while were on the subject of lenses let's put the blinders on to literally hundreds of seemingly very legitimate observations off the context of this forum then reduce ourselves to personal insults and supposition instead of having a discourse about it. Potentially fixing a problem before it becomes one, making the game accessible to that untapped audience.

11 minutes ago, Ranari said:

You'd have a better chance at loving this game by actually playing it and experiencing it for yourself.  Then once you experienced it for yourself you'd learn that there are actually quite a few Russian ships that are in need of buffs.  Then once you learn thaaaaat, you'll realize that there is a very small, yet highly vocal group of miserable individuals in this game that will complain about anything and everything without question regardless of not having actually experienced it themselves all because it's different and new.  They will criticize regardless of the status of the ship - underpowered, overpowered, work-in-progress - because they, themselves, filter everything through this miserable lens, then go on to repeat said misconceptions as facts because it fits their life narrative.

Don't be one of those guys, please.

Oh damn, got me bro. You know you're right though dude opinions that are negative just weigh me down, like. I'm just trying to play the game bro, why you have to be all speculative and fit negative life narrative instead of just going about your business with everything and like; give me some money while you're at it my dood. Once you learn thaaaaat you can , like, go with the flow bruh. Checking not savings.

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2 hours ago, Doobie_Snax said:

Lol I bet most the ones that need buffs are the ones that got nerfed to begin with. But while were on the subject of lenses let's put the blinders on to literally hundreds of seemingly very legitimate observations off the context of this forum then reduce ourselves to personal insults and supposition instead of having a discourse about it. Potentially fixing a problem before it becomes one, making the game accessible to that untapped audience.

Oh damn, got me bro. You know you're right though dude opinions that are negative just weigh me down, like. I'm just trying to play the game bro, why you have to be all speculative and fit negative life narrative instead of just going about your business with everything and like; give me some money while you're at it my dood. Once you learn thaaaaat you can , like, go with the flow bruh. Checking not savings.

WiP ships are always being changed, these ships are not at release stage. That being said, everyone said this about Kremlin. And she is NOT the "OP globally overperforming tier X BB" that everyone keeps saying she is. Every single ship has counters in the game, I have come across several of the new Russian test ships as a DD and have hard countered them fairly easy. As well, I have done so in BB's also.

Many of our ST's have been playing for a hot minute, so they know a lot of the game mechanics more than the average player, it is fairly easy to out perform in almost any ship when you are someone that knows how to play.

That being said we are gathering the test data and have been following the feedback.

All that being said, as has been stated above, play the game, make your own opinions up, you are better to watch the video's and learn how to play, how to counter certain mechanics (like not sitting broadside in a cruiser or BB), ship builds, capt layouts before you make judgements.

-Hapa

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Whole point of testing on live is to get a feel for what the ship does in an actual game environment. I can't think of a ship that's gone through live testing and hasn't been adjusted in some way based on data and feedback. 

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So let me get this straight. You've hardly played this game at all and cannot even physically have played more than a small minority of the ships available, and you have determined from a couple of Youtube videos that another ship, which is a work in progress and not yet available, has broken the game.

How would you recognize if this was a broken game, having played it essentially not at all? It is not that impressive watching a heavy cruiser citadel things from 8 km away. They can almost all do that.

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2 hours ago, RainbowFartingUnicorn said:

So let me get this straight. You've hardly played this game at all and cannot even physically have played more than a small minority of the ships available, and you have determined from a couple of Youtube videos that another ship, which is a work in progress and not yet available, has broken the game.

How would you recognize if this was a broken game, having played it essentially not at all? It is not that impressive watching a heavy cruiser citadel things from 8 km away. They can almost all do that.

you took the words, albeit nicer than the ones I might have used, Right out of my mouth....

 

 

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Edited by neptunes_wrath

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8 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

... it is fairly easy to out perform in almost any ship when you are someone that knows how to play.

So when do I start getting more of those "when you are someone that... " players on my random teams?????

A solitary red Kremlin usually ends up on the top of the charts, my team just crumbles at that flank. :Smile_child:

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6 hours ago, RainbowFartingUnicorn said:

So let me get this straight. You've hardly played this game at all and cannot even physically have played more than a small minority of the ships available, and you have determined from a couple of Youtube videos that another ship, which is a work in progress and not yet available, has broken the game.

How would you recognize if this was a broken game, having played it essentially not at all? It is not that impressive watching a heavy cruiser citadel things from 8 km away. They can almost all do that.

Yes a couple of youtube video, hundreds of comments from both active and former players; and my limited experience in this particular WG title. Still pretty familiar with the tactful balance in the more popular WOT.

 

Admittedly the ship is in development; so what exactly this isn't an isolated incident, but isn't that more reason to voice a concern? I'm kind of confused on the rational that you shouldn't be vocal about opinions till it's in an update as opposed to still on the drawing board where making it reasonable would be less taxing for everyone involved, maybe pushing it up the list of priority.

So what I only played like a hundred battles? The title isn't "that" complicated really once you understand bounce and like two other mechanics. This isn't DCS world. I played one fifth of whatever alt forum account is up there dropping south park memes. It's very apparent that if something doesn't change with this ship, it's broken. Not going to bother arguing that point without a truly constructive example, the numbers and shell groupings are pretty straight forward? Convince me otherwise instead of just being perturbed I have an opinion. Because that ship was decking BB for more than a third of their points well past 8k

So I don't have arma level hours in your game, that's not ever going to be the case. I'll remind you this same opinion is apparently shared by an uncanny amount of people who simply don't believe it to be worth while to post here, don't listen to me then, take a look at the literal wall of comments from people who feel this same exact way on youtube. Pretend you're replying to them, the best argument so far is they're going to change it, that's all I was advocating for to begin with. So those of you that feel as this stand it isn't overpowered, give me a satisfyingly compelling argument for the sake of putting this to rest.

 

*Yo look up five posts now, there's a number. I know neuptune can count that high. Convince me other heavy cruiser are as good; teach me. I'm a noob

Edited by Doobie_Snax

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1 hour ago, Doobie_Snax said:

Yes a couple of youtube video, hundreds of comments from both active and former players; and my limited experience in this particular WG title. Still pretty familiar with the tactful balance in the more popular WOT.

 

Admittedly the ship is in development; so what exactly this isn't an isolated incident, but isn't that more reason to voice a concern? I'm kind of confused on the rational that you shouldn't be vocal about opinions till it's in an update as opposed to still on the drawing board where making it reasonable would be less taxing for everyone involved, maybe pushing it up the list of priority.

So what I only played like a hundred battles? The title isn't "that" complicated really once you understand bounce and like two other mechanics. This isn't DCS world. I played one fifth of whatever alt forum account is up there dropping south park memes. It's very apparent that if something doesn't change with this ship, it's broken. Not going to bother arguing that point without a truly constructive example, the numbers and shell groupings are pretty straight forward? Convince me otherwise instead of just being perturbed I have an opinion. Because that ship was decking BB for more than a third of their points well past 8k

So I don't have arma level hours in your game, that's not ever going to be the case. I'll remind you this same opinion is apparently shared by an uncanny amount of people who simply don't believe it to be worth while to post here, don't listen to me then, take a look at the literal wall of comments from people who feel this same exact way on youtube. Pretend you're replying to them, the best argument so far is they're going to change it, that's all I was advocating for to begin with. So those of you that feel as this stand it isn't overpowered, give me a satisfyingly compelling argument for the sake of putting this to rest.

 

*Yo look up five posts now, there's a number. I know neuptune can count that high. Convince me other heavy cruiser are as good; teach me. I'm a noob

Petropavlovsk has nine 220-mm rifles for a max alpha strike of 57,150 if you land all nine citadels.

This is only 4,950 more than Moskva's alpha, and Moskva reloads three seconds faster. 

Puerto Rico has a potential alpha strike of 106,800 damage with a reload ten seconds slower. She is considered pretty OK.

Petropavlovsk is almost certainly very strong in certain situations, but game breaking is a bit of an exaggeration at this point.

Edited by RainbowFartingUnicorn

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The impression I get looking at the footage, a lot of why this ship is so powerful is in accuracy. And I know that shell grouping is a much harder thing to quantify because it really has no consistency as to what it's going to look like number wise that I can see; very hard to find representations of the odds regarding shot dispersion which to my knowledge makes it a fluid and semi subjective discussion to the players, it's not a solid statistic like max range or what degree you can bring all your guns to the party.

How do we calculate that, because potential alpha to citadels, reload time, max potential range; all that jazz is good.

But I can't seem to find how shells disperse at what range, and I think that's interesting because it seems to me like it's very important in considering how good these platforms are. In the context of tradition firearms we have something called minute of angle.

Where can I find this type of statistic for ships? Because that effectively changes how we look at every other number.

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30 minutes ago, Doobie_Snax said:

The impression I get looking at the footage, a lot of why this ship is so powerful is in accuracy. And I know that shell grouping is a much harder thing to quantify because it really has no consistency as to what it's going to look like number wise that I can see; very hard to find representations of the odds regarding shot dispersion which to my knowledge makes it a fluid and semi subjective discussion to the players, it's not a solid statistic like max range or what degree you can bring all your guns to the party.

How do we calculate that, because potential alpha to citadels, reload time, max potential range; all that jazz is good.

But I can't seem to find how shells disperse at what range, and I think that's interesting because it seems to me like it's very important in considering how good these platforms are. In the context of tradition firearms we have something called minute of angle.

Where can I find this type of statistic for ships? Because that effectively changes how we look at every other number.

Actually we do know this - again, because we have actually played the game. Accuracy is affected by a lot of things, but primarily dispersion (maximum range from point of aim that a shell may randomly land) and sigma (tendency for shells to land toward center of aim point). Bigger ships tend to have larger dispersion (bigger potential spread of shells in a salvo) and lower sigma (the shells will tend to spread more across the dispersion ellipse area), while smaller ships have the opposite. With heavy cruisers, super cruisers, and battleships, dispersion and sigma are very important measures of how comfortable gunnery is. Some battleships have super cruiser dispersion (they are much more accurate than other battleships), and some nation's ships have better dispersion and sigma as a line characteristic. 

Petropavlovsk is supposed to have much worse than cruiser-normal dispersion towards the high end of its maximum range and better than cruiser-normal dispersion at closer range. 

Additionally, accuracy is something that's always getting tweaked a lot. Sinop, the Soviet Tier VII battleship, has long had a reputation as a monster for its big-for-tier guns, AP quality, and accuracy. It's gotten a series of slight nerfs to its sigma to improve game balance (... of course, that's what Wargaming says, whether you believe that these nerfs were warranted or whether you think the nerfs were effective in balancing the ship is kind of subjective). The last ST Devblog note, I believe, even noted that Petropavlovsk was getting a small accuracy nerf.

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On 4/3/2020 at 5:28 PM, RainbowFartingUnicorn said:

Actually we do know this - again, because we have actually played the game. Accuracy is affected by a lot of things, but primarily dispersion (maximum range from point of aim that a shell may randomly land) and sigma (tendency for shells to land toward center of aim point). Bigger ships tend to have larger dispersion (bigger potential spread of shells in a salvo) and lower sigma (the shells will tend to spread more across the dispersion ellipse area), while smaller ships have the opposite. With heavy cruisers, super cruisers, and battleships, dispersion and sigma are very important measures of how comfortable gunnery is. Some battleships have super cruiser dispersion (they are much more accurate than other battleships), and some nation's ships have better dispersion and sigma as a line characteristic. 

 

I've played the game, no need to take a crap simply because I'm asking for proof, because what I don't get about those interactions is it's just sort of an ambiguous "most of the time" kind of suggestion. Like an RNG sort of thing within the area you're talking about. 

So you're saying dispersion is the ellipse itself and sigma is how they get close the middle? Because now I get the impression that even with a relatively poor dispersion pattern a high enough sigma would put most shots more or less where you want them. So then we're back to my comment about how ambiguous this all this because it's more or less a roll of the dice right? Well, with that information I still don't know do I?

Minute of angle is a lot more exact and that's math created for the real world, not a game. 

See what I mean about it being "VERY HARD TO FIND THE ODDS REGARDING SHOT DISPERSION" Because you can't tell me with those two numbers what percent chance it has to hit at what range it's just an overarching "This might be what it looks like, most of the time, but not all the time"

Without that I would just need to play with the ship to get a feel for how it shoots, sounds ambiguous to me?

Edited by Doobie_Snax

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4 hours ago, Doobie_Snax said:

I've played the game, no need to take a crap simply because I'm asking for proof, because what I don't get about those interactions is it's just sort of an ambiguous "most of the time" kind of suggestion. Like an RNG sort of thing within the area you're talking about. 

So you're saying dispersion is the ellipse itself and sigma is how they get close the middle? Because now I get the impression that even with a relatively poor dispersion pattern a high enough sigma would put most shots more or less where you want them. So then we're back to my comment about how ambiguous this all this because it's more or less a roll of the dice right? Well, with that information I still don't know do I?

Minute of angle is a lot more exact and that's math created for the real world, not a game. 

See what I mean about it being "VERY HARD TO FIND THE ODDS REGARDING SHOT DISPERSION" Because you can't tell me with those two numbers what percent chance it has to hit at what range it's just an overarching "This might be what it looks like, most of the time, but not all the time"

Without that I would just need to play with the ship to get a feel for how it shoots, sounds ambiguous to me?

You're right, I'm sorry for being crabby about that.

To use the small arms analogy, dispersion in warships is the equivalent of the ship guns' accuracy, while sigma is a measure of the ship guns' precision. A ship with very high sigma but also high dispersion will have tight groups of shells that often land far from the point of aim, while a ship with very low dispersion and sigma would have a more or less randomly distributed pattern of shots falling across a smaller ellipse. For the most part, therefore, the most accurate ships have high sigma and low dispersion.

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On 4/4/2020 at 7:46 PM, RainbowFartingUnicorn said:

You're right, I'm sorry for being crabby about that.

To use the small arms analogy, dispersion in warships is the equivalent of the ship guns' accuracy, while sigma is a measure of the ship guns' precision. A ship with very high sigma but also high dispersion will have tight groups of shells that often land far from the point of aim, while a ship with very low dispersion and sigma would have a more or less randomly distributed pattern of shots falling across a smaller ellipse. For the most part, therefore, the most accurate ships have high sigma and low dispersion.

Thanks bro. We good, sorry for trolling about the wip cruiser. It's my world of tanks ptsd

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On 4/1/2020 at 9:50 PM, Doobie_Snax said:

I'm going to try to touch base with active members of the community despite my better judgement on the matter. Trying to  be as polite as I can possibly manage while I explain this point in the most concise way possible without failing to get the point across; hold onto your neck beards.

If you're on this forum, I assume you've played at least one WG title for a semi-decent amount of time; perhaps dropped a bit of coin on it...kewl...

I have a seven plus year old account because I started playing world of tanks back when it was starting to blow up. It was good, not bangin' but good. Good waste of time, good way to drop a twenty and get a tiny high off your shiny tank camo; whatever. As far as I was concerned they were a bunch of Russian who managed to pump out a solid title without a corp like EA sized backing them. Which even seven plus years ago was a dying kind of breed. So screw it, I didn't feel bad about the cash.

My friend and I even got the Churchill (Also in the russian tier despite being an english tank given to them) and we laughed about how ruthlessly OP it was in that tier... But you know something, they eventually fixed it. When I went back on WOT to see if the churchill was still broken, a matter of curiosity after seeing recent developments of warships. I wasn't honestly shocked to see they toned it down to a reasonable level. 

So here I am, ready to try out world of warships, because screw it.. It was on the back burner for a while, I didn't want to invest the grind into another freemium game but corona virus I guess so here we are.

And I see this... On youtube, ironically recommended to me because of watching the official tuts.. 

 

 

We need to make a stand here man, we need to pull a red dawn on this right quick. I want you to tell all your friends, all your sweaty nerds, all your weebs; and we will form from that a union christened by a thousand tears of the victims of not just pay to win; but pay to get brutalized. And from those delicious tears a new republic will foam to the surface, like frothy milk in my cappuccino. A neckbeard republic. And we will win the day.

 

We get it, you're russian, cool. You want to make your stuff the best... Cool. At least admit that's childish, I know it's not a military simulator but you're not playing to your REAL paying audience, who's that one dude reading this who looked up Azur Lane rule 34; you know who you are.   

If premium was a little bit OP.. Hey whatever, it's your game, you're a business now I get it. But this is what a broken game looks like, this is the kind of thing that takes the people who enjoy the sport of competitive play and eviscerate their faith in the good will of your staff, nerfing the wrong ships or factions. It's beyond historical revisionism it's shallow gameplay hinging on money instead of leaning on it for support.

TLDR

So please, anyone reading this, red dawn this ship in the cradle with me; let's make them hear the community to get this thing back on track so we can cry about submarines when those come out instead. Thanks

Anybody who says this ship is op In its current state is either a bad player, or somebody who just doesn’t know how to adapt to new ship lines in the game.

I hate to be that guy but I’m sorry to say that your 100% wrong about this ship being op. I have almost 11k battles played, I have a fairly good win rate and I play this game very competitively with a Very competitive clan , and basically from all the videos about it I’ve seen all it really does is punish people who love broadsiding or don’t know how to actually angle their ship. 
 

this ship is actually extremely easy to counter and focus fire especially if you are playing ships like Hindenburg Golliath and Venezia, all ships which can pen 50 mm plating. Basically this ship plays similarly to the Moskva, you go slightly bow in and you do not attempt to get your 3 rd turret firing ever, as it opens you up to being killed very quickly especially at the range you will be fighting at, because this thing has Moskva armour, and we all know how easy it is for Moskva to get screwed up if it decides to show too much side or kite like an idiot And as for the people complaining about how this thing citadels battleships, here’s an idea, stop broadsiding like an idiot and actually use your armour properly by angling the ship and you won’t get citadeled. 
 The hit point pool is average, worse than both Moskva and Stalingrad, the radar duration is crap, the reload is pretty good but it’s not fantastic, the RAW he dpm is crapmaking it a horrible dd Hunter, the RAW AP dpm is crap, and the ship still turns like a Moskva so the maneuverability is still crap so you can’t kite very well if at all, the concealment is good and it has ok fire chance at 14%, also your alpha is the highest for tier 10 heavy cruisers but honestly your better off playing Stalingrad if you wanted that, despite what people are saying you have Kronstadt pen, not Stalingrad pen which is higher than Kronstadt, accuracy is good at short to mid range but is very inconsistent at longer ranges, and aa defense who cares.

I can see how this ship might appeal to others but honestly it doesn’t look that appealing as there are better ships designed for what it is clearly trying to copy, but failing miserably. People seriously need to get over themselves and stop buying into the imaginary “Russian bias” conspiracy and actually learn how to get good at this game instead of blaming an imaginary bogey man for the reason why they suck, I find this view of “Ship is op because it is Russian” to be an extremely toxic mindset, and furthermore it is extremely toxic behavior for players and community contributors to spread this overhyped lie about Russian ships in this game all because they suck at it or because they are click baiting boomers  for views. I actually much rather would be playing a heavy crusier like Des Moines or Venezia, I.e ships that are actually good rather than this over hyped meme.

Edited by SoarinSkies
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On 4/3/2020 at 4:50 PM, Doobie_Snax said:

The impression I get looking at the footage, a lot of why this ship is so powerful is in accuracy. And I know that shell grouping is a much harder thing to quantify because it really has no consistency as to what it's going to look like number wise that I can see; very hard to find representations of the odds regarding shot dispersion which to my knowledge makes it a fluid and semi subjective discussion to the players, it's not a solid statistic like max range or what degree you can bring all your guns to the party.

How do we calculate that, because potential alpha to citadels, reload time, max potential range; all that jazz is good.

But I can't seem to find how shells disperse at what range, and I think that's interesting because it seems to me like it's very important in considering how good these platforms are. In the context of tradition firearms we have something called minute of angle.

Where can I find this type of statistic for ships? Because that effectively changes how we look at every other number.

Don’t use these kinds of click bait thumbnail videos to determine your belief on whether or not a ship is op or even good for that matter as these idiots are pretty much just overhyping a dead meme that they still think is funny because they still think that imaginary Russian bias is a thing in this game. It’s either that or they are trying to clickbait views and make people believe things about ships that aren’t actually at all true which is extremely toxic behavior for youtubers in my oppinion. Also as a side note most of these people are either memeing or think that they are actually good at this game and want to pretend like they know everything just to get attention, or they are jumping on the train of “its Russian so it’s op” because they know that other idiots Who suck at this game will flock to their channel and give them views.

Edited by SoarinSkies
Russian bias is a toxic lie that needs to be stopped from spreading
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On 4/21/2020 at 2:17 AM, SoarinSkies said:

Anybody who says this ship is op In its current state is either a bad player, or somebody who just doesn’t know how to adapt to new ship lines in the game.

I hate to be that guy but I’m sorry to say that your 100% wrong about this ship being op. I have almost 11k battles played, I have a fairly good win rate and I play this game very competitively with a Very competitive clan , and basically from all the videos about it I’ve seen all it really does is punish people who love broadsiding or don’t know how to actually angle their ship. 
 

this ship is actually extremely easy to counter and focus fire especially if you are playing ships like Hindenburg Golliath and Venezia, all ships which can pen 50 mm plating. Basically this ship plays similarly to the Moskva, you go slightly bow in and you do not attempt to get your 3 rd turret firing ever, as it opens you up to being killed very quickly especially at the range you will be fighting at, because this thing has Moskva armour, and we all know how easy it is for Moskva to get screwed up if it decides to show too much side or kite like an idiot And as for the people complaining about how this thing citadels battleships, here’s an idea, stop broadsiding like an idiot and actually use your armour properly by angling the ship and you won’t get citadeled. 
 The hit point pool is average, worse than both Moskva and Stalingrad, the radar duration is crap, the reload is pretty good but it’s not fantastic, the RAW he dpm is crapmaking it a horrible dd Hunter, the RAW AP dpm is crap, and the ship still turns like a Moskva so the maneuverability is still crap so you can’t kite very well if at all, the concealment is good and it has ok fire chance at 14%, also your alpha is the highest for tier 10 heavy cruisers but honestly your better off playing Stalingrad if you wanted that, despite what people are saying you have Kronstadt pen, not Stalingrad pen which is higher than Kronstadt, accuracy is good at short to mid range but is very inconsistent at longer ranges, and aa defense who cares.

I can see how this ship might appeal to others but honestly it doesn’t look that appealing as there are better ships designed for what it is clearly trying to copy, but failing miserably. People seriously need to get over themselves and stop buying into the imaginary “Russian bias” conspiracy and actually learn how to get good at this game instead of blaming an imaginary bogey man for the reason why they suck, I find this view of “Ship is op because it is Russian” to be an extremely toxic mindset, and furthermore it is extremely toxic behavior for players and community contributors to spread this overhyped lie about Russian ships in this game all because they suck at it or because they are click baiting boomers  for views. I actually much rather would be playing a heavy crusier like Des Moines or Venezia, I.e ships that are actually good rather than this over hyped meme.

 

Honestly after reading down your "technical" analysis I was almost willing to put aside the blatant aggressive disrespect of the secondary post.   

 

On 4/21/2020 at 2:25 AM, SoarinSkies said:

Don’t use these kinds of click bait thumbnail videos to determine your belief on whether or not a ship is op or even good for that matter as these idiots are pretty much just overhyping a dead meme that they still think is funny because they still think that imaginary Russian bias is a thing in this game. It’s either that or they are trying to clickbait views and make people believe things about ships that aren’t actually at all true which is extremely toxic behavior for youtubers in my oppinion. Also as a side note most of these people are either memeing or think that they are actually good at this game and want to pretend like they know everything just to get attention, or they are jumping on the train of “its Russian so it’s op” because they know that other idiots Who suck at this game will flock to their channel and give them views.

Okay... listen, I don't mean to deflate you on that last bit regarding people blaming russian bias for "why they suck" but not everyone who comes to warships is a brony tryhard in a competitive clan visiting the forum for the fourth time between 13 thousand games played intently from moms basement. But as someone who has played wargaming titles since the first north american servers popped up I can confirm this has been a pretty notable thing even back in worth of tanks. I'm not going to argue the fact that to a degree it has become a meme, but maybe that should be telling you something?

Literally every russian ship you name dropped got nerfed at some point, and I want you to try and tell me that it isn't because they were made OP. Because if I was to look back at the patch notes on this game, you're going to tell me there isn't some variety of consistency? Just conspiracy?

It's only a "conspiracy theory" if there isn't pretty blatant evidence from the developers themselves that this is so, hypothetically if a bunch of bronies got together and just memed this into existence why do they themselves consistently take releases in those tiers back to the drawing board for major adjustments. Russian ships all together including this most recent development aside, Stalingrad alone was a meme in this game. If we're going to use that as the benchmark for "idiots" blaming things for why they suck. And we're still just talking about world of warships here, not even going to touch base with the other titles that include this bias.

It isn't as if we don't understand where this whole thing is born from, for example plenty of american want to play some solid american ships, plenty of europeans wanted some of their own vessels too. You need only look at the official video releases from wargaming itself to take note that there is a sizable contingent of eastern european players; placing historical revisionism aside for an arcade title and appealing to them isn't so much "toxic" as simply childish, not unlike the demeanor of your retort. I think the only thing people are really want is for these vessels to get released without needing to near instantaneously go back for balancing

Quote

I hate to be that guy but I’m sorry to say that your 100% wrong about this ship being op. I have almost 11k battles played, I have a fairly good win rate and I play this game very competitively with a Very competitive clan , and basically from all the videos about it I’ve seen all it really does is punish people who love broadsiding or don’t know how to actually angle their ship.  - Some Brony 2020

First off, and this is the obvious one. There are so many ways to end up staring down the long end of a BB while using a cruiser, mostly because they're forced to angle at the largest guns or a place with volume of fire. So ignoring that let's head straight to the idea that this thing only punishes people who aren't at an angle. "I hate" to be the guy to tell you this but if you would just watch the video; at that point in the development several weeks back it was eviscerating BB well below 20 degrees. 

I'm not even going to bother replying to the rest of the analysis as most of it is either obvious, arrogant, or showing exactly why it is you have so much vested interest in the russian tier of vessels; which is very ironically a type of bias all on it's own. Let's let people decide.

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After playing against the Petropavlovsk I can say without hesitation that it's broke-AF.  I played a cruiser.  It deals massive AP damage at almost any angle.  It delivers multiple citadels per volley.  The AP maintains penetration at range.  Reload is stupid fast for the level of AP damage it pumps out.  And, it lands everything with that shell velocity and accuracy.  When I saw it on the enemy roster I was curios, then watched as it easily dismantled our team and finished well on top of the winning team.  If it's released as it is now it will be the most OP ship in the game.  It's broke-AF.

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