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_Marines

Odin is nerfed. I'm depressed

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5 minutes ago, _Marines said:

:Smile_sad::Smile_sad::Smile_sad:

 What did you think was going to happen from a Russian based game that hates Germans.

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It's sad what they've done to the KMS Odin.  It looks to me like they turned a decent T8 version of the Scharnhorst into a pathetic tier 8 premium whose only value comes from brawling with its secondaries, because her primaries are so lame.  In fact, this sounds a lot like what WG did to the Agïr as well.  

I'm a pretty prolific whale, all things considered, but I have no interest in the Odin and Agïr as they currently are and doubt that I'll buy them, though if I get some Santa crates next Christmas, I may end up getting them regardless.  I just won't spend money to knowingly purchase these stinking piles of crap.

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Why can't we just have a tier 10 Scharnhorst??? Maybe with Yoshino guns and Hindenburgh torps.... :Smile_trollface:

Edited by MudRaker227
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Scharnhorst remains one of my favourite ships.  I'm pretty selective about which premiums I will actually spend money on, and the Scharnhorst is a purchase I've never regretted. 

So obviously I was excited for what looked like a T8 version of Scharnhorst, and would probably have bought the thing.  Not any more.  Why don't you want my money, WG?

 

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I'm at work right now, so I can't watch the video... but I hope it's about the massive HP nerf that Odin received several weeks ago, and not about some new nerf that I didn't hear about. :Smile_ohmy:

Still, it really blows that WG did that... then again, if Odin was left as she was, then she might have power crept Tirpitz very hard... relatively speaking.

I still intend to get her as soon as she pops up publicly... lol.

Hopefully WG isn't nerfing her anymore, before that happens. Really. :Smile_hiding:

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6 minutes ago, Blorgh2017 said:

I'm at work right now, so I can't watch the video... but I hope it's about the massive HP nerf that Odin received several weeks ago, and not about some new nerf that I didn't hear about. :Smile_ohmy:

Still, it really blows that WG did that... then again, if Odin was left as she was, then she might have power crept Tirpitz very hard... relatively speaking.

I still intend to get her as soon as she pops up publicly... lol.

Hopefully WG isn't nerfing her anymore, before that happens. Really. :Smile_hiding:

The other nerf is to the AP fuse time. It’s gone from 0.1 to 0.33. This means more over-pens on cruisers. Apparently the problem was doing full dmg to cruisers with the 0.1 fuse arm time. Still a WiP ship but don’t think it’ll change again (buffs I mean).

Ill have to see later whether I’ll get it :cap_old: Currently that’s a “negative ghost rider”

Edited by Bravo4zero
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3 minutes ago, Bravo4zero said:

The other nerf is to the AP fuse time. It’s gone from 0.1 to 0.33. This means more over-pens on cruisers. Apparently the problem was doing full dmg to cruisers with the 0.1 fuse arm time. Still a WiP ship but don’t think it’ll change again (buffs I mean).

Ill have to see later whether I’ll get it :cap_old: Currently that’s a “negative ghost rider”

Oh that nerf. I remember now. Yes, that nerf also arrived along with the HP pool nerf.

I suppose that when it comes to balancing German ships, the No-Fun Police(tm) is always there in the WG office... lol. :Smile_smile:

Edited by Blorgh2017
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22 minutes ago, MudRaker227 said:

Why can't we just have a tier 10 Scharnhorst??? Maybe with Yoshino guns and Hindenburgh torps.... :Smile_trollface:

The Agïr is pretty much a tier 9 Scharnhorst, just classified as a super cruiser.

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Everyone said it was promising and fun.

Everyone kind of suspected WG was going to nerf it.

WG clobbered it with the nerf bat (52K HP? Seriously WG?) and everyone just kind of went "yeah, saw that coming."

 

You know how much better off WG would be over the last year if they had actually listened to their CCs? NTC, PR, Smolensk, RU BB, RU CA/CL, Odin, etc the CCs told WG ahead of time what the reaction from the community would be. And every single time WG ignored them and then acted surprised when people got mad. And now they're stiffening the NDA so that they don't have to be told their ideas are crap. Guess they'll actually be surprised when the community says their newest idea is crap.

At this point they either just don't care about their NA and EU players or they're monumentally stupid.

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31 minutes ago, Wascawwy_Wabbit said:

Scharnhorst remains one of my favourite ships.  I'm pretty selective about which premiums I will actually spend money on, and the Scharnhorst is a purchase I've never regretted. 

So obviously I was excited for what looked like a T8 version of Scharnhorst, and would probably have bought the thing.  Not any more.  Why don't you want my money, WG?

 

Speaking of Scharnhorst, was her dispersion also buffed like German tech tree battleships with the new, tighter formula?

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9 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

Everyone said it was promising and fun.

Everyone kind of suspected WG was going to nerf it.

WG clobbered it with the nerf bat (52K HP? Seriously WG?) and everyone just kind of went "yeah, saw that coming."

 

You know how much better off WG would be over the last year if they had actually listened to their CCs? NTC, PR, Smolensk, RU BB, RU CA/CL, Odin, etc the CCs told WG ahead of time what the reaction from the community would be. And every single time WG ignored them and then acted surprised when people got mad. And now they're stiffening the NDA so that they don't have to be told their ideas are crap. Guess they'll actually be surprised when the community says their newest idea is crap.

At this point they either just don't care about their NA and EU players or they're monumentally stupid.

In the more positive light, at least WG sticked to their blurry code of ethics here that they nerfed Odin before she is released and sold in the Premium Shop. Imaging the fuse timer nerf and the health pool nerf coming after she is sold to tens of thousands of German navy fans.

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1 minute ago, _Marines said:

In the more positive light, at least WG sticked to their blurry code of ethics here that they nerfed Odin before she is released and sold in the Premium Shop. Imaging the fuse timer nerf and the health pool nerf coming after she is sold to tens of thousands of German navy fans.

Dear god...

The Giulio Caesare was bad enough, and that needed a nerf. WG EU guys wouldn't be able to show their faces in public if they pulled that stunt with Odin. There's a reason they nerfed it now.

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IDK about you, but I just heard thousands of wallets close do to these changes.:Smile_unsure:

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On 4/1/2020 at 3:26 PM, Bravo4zero said:

The other nerf is to the AP fuse time. It’s gone from 0.1 to 0.33. This means more over-pens on cruisers. Apparently the problem was doing full dmg to cruisers with the 0.1 fuse arm time. Still a WiP ship but don’t think it’ll change again (buffs I mean).

Ill have to see later whether I’ll get it :cap_old: Currently that’s a “negative ghost rider”

going to point out the obvious here but...aren't BBs supposed to kill cruisers in the RPS setup?:fish_palm:

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1 hour ago, BladedPheonix said:

going to point out the obvious here but...aren't BBs supposed to kill cruisers in the RPS setup?:fish_palm:

Always was mate, yep. Used to be paper, rock, scissors and not forgetting the forge (CVs :cap_haloween:). Guess we’ll never know what “The Spreadsheet” said though.

Edited by Bravo4zero
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Saw that nerf coming.  The Odin out-shined both the Bismarck and Tirpitz by a long shot. 

If anything both the Bismarck and Tirpitz need buffing.

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On 4/2/2020 at 8:29 PM, Bravo4zero said:

Always was mate, yep. Used to be paper, rock, scissors and not forgetting the forge (CVs :cap_haloween:). Guess we’ll never know what “The Spreadsheet” said though.

nah I bet @Lert & pals probably got them. they're very resourceful when it comes to gathering data.

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On 4/3/2020 at 7:23 AM, Ranari said:

Saw that nerf coming.  The Odin out-shined both the Bismarck and Tirpitz by a long shot. 

If anything both the Bismarck and Tirpitz need buffing.

All German BBs need the battlecruiser's dispersion formula, as (historically) they were some of the most accurate battleships among all nations.

Edited by _Marines
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6 hours ago, _Marines said:

All German BBs need the battlecruiser's dispersion formula, as they were some of the most accurate battleships among all nations.

Firstly, hi!  Saw you in the game the other day.  I think I was about four Sierra Nevada Torpedo IPAs (7.5%) into my night.  A fitting beer for working on my British DD line, haha!

German BB's need a rethinking of their design philosophy.  I just finished leveling through the German BB line for a second time 'cause I'm going after the Ohio, and my overall experience was not very positive.  My biggest issue with them is that while they're technically built for close quarter combat, they do so too at the cost of being able to perform in the standard battleship meta.  You can either go all-in for close quarter combat effectiveness, or you can ignore it entirely, but there's never a balance between the two.  And let's be real, in a practical sense a survival kitted FdG is no better close up than an Izumo or Lion is.  This is unlike French and American brawlers which are still effective in the standard meta even while built for their secondary performance.

Then there is the secondary performance.  Hear me out here.  Ultimately, battleships are balanced around their accuracy.  Both destroyers and cruisers have great accuracy, but its their penetration that determines how effectively their DPM could be applied.  That's why IFHE universally is, or at least was one of the top choices for both ship classes.  Battleships are the opposite in that penetration is rarely an issue, but its their accuracy that determines how effectively their DPM (and alpha) can be applied.  Accuracy is also the most important determining factor for secondary performance, too.  Here's the key:

  • German battleships improve their secondary performance by cannibalizing their main battery efficiency.  French BB's do too, but have more breathing room.
  • American battleships improve their secondaries at the cost of either AA, range, or raw DPM, but never their accuracy.  These are more acceptable trade-offs because none carry the value that main battery accuracy does for battleships. 

So ships like the Georgia can have both accurate main and secondary batteries (at the cost of reduced DPM, but this is less important than accuracy), whereas the FdG has to choose between having accurate main or accurate secondaries, but never both.  That doesn't mean the Georgia is a better ship in every way, but it definitely a more balanced approach, and to players, this makes for more consistent experience. 

This is why I am hugely in favor of German ships being put on the battlecruiser dispersion tables, their rate of fire reduced, and having Aiming Systems Mod 1 removed as an option from their module selection.  This gives improves the efficiency in which German battleships can apply their DPM, but at a cost of raw DPM.  This'll make it far more comfortable to players and allow German battleships to continue to perform in the standard meta while secondary spec'd, but they won't be stepping on the toes of more specialized medium and long ranged performers like the North Carolina or Izumo.  Unlike the Russians, German battleships simply don't have the penetration to truly kick butt at the long ranges, so this acts as a hard limit to their performance.

Don't even get more started with French brawlers lol.  I've been parsing the impact of this HE/IFHE rework and it's NOT in their favor at all.

Edited by Ranari
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Installed Aslain's Modpack, cos I wanted to check Odin's hitpoits. And I must say that in it's current state is awful. 52800 HP for a tier 8 German Batlleship, Really? (Scharnhorst has  56300 Hp, and it's a tier 7)

Tirpitz has 69300. How about WG gives to Odin at least 59800 HP?   That would be more decent.

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On 4/10/2020 at 8:29 AM, Ranari said:

German BB's need a rethinking of their design philosophy.  I just finished leveling through the German BB line for a second time 'cause I'm going after the Ohio, and my overall experience was not very positive. [...]

Ultimately, battleships are balanced around their accuracy.  Both destroyers and cruisers have great accuracy, but its their penetration that determines how effectively their DPM could be applied.  That's why IFHE universally is, or at least was one of the top choices for both ship classes.  Battleships are the opposite in that penetration is rarely an issue, but its their accuracy that determines how effectively their DPM (and alpha) can be applied.  Accuracy is also the most important determining factor for secondary performance, too.  Here's the key:

  • German battleships improve their secondary performance by cannibalizing their main battery efficiency.  French BB's do too, but have more breathing room.
  • American battleships improve their secondaries at the cost of either AA, range, or raw DPM, but never their accuracy.  These are more acceptable trade-offs because none carry the value that main battery accuracy does for battleships. 

So ships like the Georgia can have both accurate main and secondary batteries (at the cost of reduced DPM, but this is less important than accuracy), whereas the FdG has to choose between having accurate main or accurate secondaries, but never both.  That doesn't mean the Georgia is a better ship in every way, but it definitely a more balanced approach, and to players, this makes for more consistent experience. 

This is why I am hugely in favor of German ships being put on the battlecruiser dispersion tables, [...] This'll make it far more comfortable to players and allow German battleships to continue to perform in the standard meta while secondary spec'd, but they won't be stepping on the toes of more specialized medium and long ranged performers like the North Carolina or Izumo.  Unlike the Russians, German battleships simply don't have the penetration to truly kick butt at the long ranges, so this acts as a hard limit to their performance.

I agree with your analysis and hope that WG's dev team to come to their senses about this.

I have tried the German battleship line after the buff. The line is playable now, but still underwhelming. Take H-39 Friedrich der Grosse for example, I find the only way to play the ship well is to hug strong teammates like a cruiser. Since she is so vulnerable, and incapable of projecting damage at long range, playing objectives in this battleship is suicide. I have to accept the zen mindset of cruiser players, allowing the teammate to tank, while I follow him to add some meager damage.

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On 4/1/2020 at 3:07 PM, _Marines said:

:Smile_sad::Smile_sad::Smile_sad:


On 4/1/2020 at 3:13 PM, FearTheBeef said:

 What did you think was going to happen from a Russian based game that hates Germans.


On 4/1/2020 at 3:49 PM, Crucis said:

It's sad what they've done to the KMS Odin.  It looks to me like they turned a decent T8 version of the Scharnhorst into a pathetic tier 8 premium whose only value comes from brawling with its secondaries, because her primaries are so lame.  In fact, this sounds a lot like what WG did to the Agïr as well.  

I'm a pretty prolific whale, all things considered, but I have no interest in the Odin and Agïr as they currently are and doubt that I'll buy them, though if I get some Santa crates next Christmas, I may end up getting them regardless.  I just won't spend money to knowingly purchase these stinking piles of crap.

Yup we can blame image.png.5bf720c2d595e92a2e669ce16bca5749.pngs  like @LoveBote, @Zaydin , @WaveRider and others for Odin and other secondary ships being made ineffective,With their whining how OP secondary ships are,Strangely enuff he and most of those whiner's don't even play anymore............................Perhaps now that they've ruined the so much of the game and or ships they'll shut the :etc_swear: up for a while?

Edited by shadowsrmine
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A new nerf has hit. Main battery reload increased from 20s to 23s. Now she gets all of the super-low health pool, lackster reload, and ineffective AP fuse.:fish_sleep:

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meu amigo, o jogo é russo, tudo o que é russo nesse jogo é OP, e tudo o que é alemão aqui é nerfado. Não respeitam a história, Alemanha tinha equipamentos muito sofisticados, bismarck era o terror do mar, a rixa é desde a WWII, quando o partido comunista foi banido da alemanha... hehehe

e se banirem emu comentário ou me punirem, já sabemos quem é tolerante aqui WG hehehe, mas essa é a verdade, não respeitam o fato histórico.

Alemanha tinha muito mais tecnologia do que a da rússia. A rússia não tinha muitos navios sofisticados, e aqui no jogo, é mais OP do que sabe deus o que, cadê o respeito aos falecidos na guerra, que lutaram contra um inimigo tecnologicamente avançado e bem preparado?

Uma coisa é apoiar o Naz... outra coisa é respeitar o inimigo que era mais sofisticado e os que o combateram, se fosse eu acharia um ultraje e me reviraria no túmulo a forma que tratam a tecnologia alemã em jogos da WWII, desrespeitando os que deram a vida para o combater fazendo os tripulantes do hood achar que o bismarck realmente era vesgo...

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