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Kagenomure

Graff Zeplin opinion

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Just wondering what people think about the graff zepplin CV, is it good or bad?

what is good about it and what is bad? I ask cuase atm i have the indomitable but i was thinking about getting the Graff but not sure if it is worth it

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One of the best 1v1 ships of T8.

You play GZ for the memes and assert your dominance over the fake Russian BBs. Your fast bombers will fool you into thinking you have legit jets, then realize you are better off dropping propaganda leaflets instead of torpedoes.

You might not win many games in the GZ, but she's a fun ship to play.

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Some click with her (some can click with any ship) but I reserve her for co-op secondary missions.  It's a hoot to take a CV, park it at a bot funnel, then let it accrue secondary hits while you work the planes.  I am NOT good enough with her to take into randoms.

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1 hour ago, Kagenomure said:

Just wondering what people think about the graff zepplin CV, is it good or bad?

what is good about it and what is bad? I ask cuase atm i have the indomitable but i was thinking about getting the Graff but not sure if it is worth it

I would recommend that you reach out to The Little White Mouse. She most likely has already put together a full breakdown on Graff Zepplin right down to what shade of gray used to paint the ships keel. (She is very detail oriented)

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8 minutes ago, Iron_Clad_5000 said:

I would recommend that you reach out to The Little White Mouse. She most likely has already put together a full breakdown on Graff Zepplin right down to what shade of gray used to paint the ships keel. (She is very detail oriented)

I don't think she is done with full reviews on them yet?  

 

 

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1 hour ago, Kagenomure said:

Just wondering what people think about the graff zepplin CV, is it good or bad?

what is good about it and what is bad? I ask cuase atm i have the indomitable but i was thinking about getting the Graff but not sure if it is worth it

"Good" or "bad" is mainly about opinion and what you are using it for.

Is it a powerful CV? No. 

Is it easy to use? No. 

Does it work if you can use it well? Yes. 

Strengths: Fast DBs and TBs. Rockets do acceptable damage. Good torpedoes (speedwise). AP bombs have nasty pen and are powerful against BBs. Meme secondary builds can be fun in Co-op  and work well in 1v1 ranked. 

Weaknesses: Smaller reserves and slower plane regen than some makes plane losses hurt. You have to play carefully. Rocket planes are much slower than the other types (oddly) and are not suited for scouting. DBs are wildly inaccurate - the reticule is deceptive. Bombs drop side by side rather than front to back like other DBs so you want to attack ships from the sides. Torpedoes may be fast but they aren't particularly damaging. The meme secondary build's value falls off against real players in anything other than a 1v1. 

Overall: It's a fun CV to play now and then, but there is nothing it does that the other CVs (with the exception of Indomitable, and with the exception of the secondary build) can't do at least as well and in a better overall package. GZ will do the job but it will work for it, but you should be used to that if you have Indom (which is the only CV I don't have). It's value lies mostly in its history and in whether you are a player who likes the underdog role. History-wise it isn't even very accurate as it is flying planes that it never had and likely never would have received.

I'm not saying don't get it. After all, I got it knowing its flaws. I find it fun to use now and then. If you have Indom you are well acquainted with flaws. Just beware of what you are getting. 

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It's something of a lethal joke. It's strike capbility is generally bad and it's dive bombers are so damn rng based and they can easily punch right though cruisers deck and out the bottom. However she is an paralleled scout and you can at the very least use that speed to make sure torpedoes are lined up properly. People joke about her secondaries, but I've legit seen one melt an Azuma in a brawl.

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Secondaries are brutal if specced properly

Torpedo bombers are fast as all hell

AP Dive Bombers can nuke the living daylights out of cruisers

Rocket attack aircraft have high penetration and a quick arm time, as well as a unique aiming reticle that allows for better attacks on DDs

Invulnerable to HE shells from 128mm guns or smaller

Watch out for the squishy planes, though...

Need I say more?

:SerB:

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There's enough uniqueness and history to GZ that I found it worth purchasing even with its shortcomings. It has a charm to it that only Enterprise (which is unavailable) and Ark Royal (which is T6) beat among the carriers. If you are looking for effectiveness in a premium CV, look elsewhere - specifically to Kaga or Saipan. 

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She is fun and not bad enough to prevent you from doing well but she could definitely use a bit of a buff here or there. Her rockets are good except for their extremely low HP, which combined with their low speed means they evaporate in the slightest AA. Her torpedo bombers are her main weapon, they don't hit that hard but the speed of them makes them pretty durable and able to make constant strikes. Her AP bombers are terrible, inaccurate, and even when they hit are more likely to do almost nothing than to citadel. Their best use I have found is to come in from the side of cruisers and try to hit their belts rather than the deck. Otherwise they are the plane you launch when you need the others to recover a bit or you need throwaway scout planes. Her secondaries are great but with her very large concealment it can be hard to find situations where you can actually make use of them. All in all she is very fun ship but not one I would recommend to someone new to CVs, you have to put a lot of work into making her perform.

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She is not Enterprise level good, but the GZ is a lot of fun to play. Overall her performance isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

Trades AA performance for monster secondaries. Very little you have to spec into for them to be good.

Supposedly it's dive bombers are being looked into. 

It's a good buy.

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7 hours ago, Kagenomure said:

Just wondering what people think about the graff zepplin CV, is it good or bad?

It is somewhere in-between. It's very different from other carriers, and is fairly difficult to play well.

 

7 hours ago, Kagenomure said:

what is good about it and what is bad?

Good:

  • Its TBs and DBs are very fast, so you can attack more of the map (more frequently)
  • Its TBs and DBs are very fast, so you avoid the worst of the AA (meaning you can uptier well).
  • TBs have a tight spread.
  • Rockets do a lot of damage and pen a lot of enemies. The rocket planes can also target dds easily and swing about for multiple passes easily.
  • German hard-to-cit armor, good health pool.
  • Better than Bismarck secondaries.

Bad:

  • Planes have low HP. They avoid the worst of tier X AA by being fast, but still die pretty easily to mistakes or lower AA.
  • DBs require lots of skill to cit without overpen since every enemy armor layout is different.
  • You get 8 DBs a flight, but will only get 4 bombs dropped if you're lucky.
  • Rocket planes are slow.
  • Torps do meh damage.
  • Torps have long aim time and long lead (can be mitigated with captain).
  • DB circle means that even if you do a perfect drop, they might sail wide and splash or overpen.
  • Bad ship turning radius.
  • No hydro post-rework.

 

Overall

Unique playstyle, tricky to drive well. Punishes mistakes and rewards skill more than other CVs.

 

Edited by Telastyn
  • Cool 1

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27 minutes ago, Telastyn said:
  • Good concealment.

Her concealment is actually pretty terrible. 15.7km out of the box when other CVs at tier are 14.5km to 12km. Even with a max concealment build(which means you are sacrificing plane reserves) you only get down to 12.7km which is still 3.3 km more than your max secondary range. Alternatively if you pass on the concealment mod so you have better reserves you are 14.1, just slightly better than the next highest concealment CV in tier without them having concealment expert. Did I mention you need at least a 17 point commander to take CE, AFT, and the mandatory aircraft armor/survivability expert so your planes don't instantly vaporize? 

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12 minutes ago, Tekina_ said:

Her concealment is actually pretty terrible. 15.7km out of the box when other CVs at tier are 14.5km to 12km. Even with a max concealment build(which means you are sacrificing plane reserves) you only get down to 12.7km which is still 3.3 km more than your max secondary range. Alternatively if you pass on the concealment mod so you have better reserves you are 14.1, just slightly better than the next highest concealment CV in tier without them having concealment expert. Did I mention you need at least a 17 point commander to take CE, AFT, and the mandatory aircraft armor/survivability expert so your planes don't instantly vaporize? 

Hmm, looks like that's right. My Lex certainly feels a lot less stealthy, but the numbers don't support that. Edited.

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5 hours ago, Wows_Nightly_News said:

It's something of a lethal joke. It's strike capbility is generally bad and it's dive bombers are so damn rng based and they can easily punch right though cruisers deck and out the bottom. However she is an paralleled scout and you can at the very least use that speed to make sure torpedoes are lined up properly. People joke about her secondaries, but I've legit seen one melt an Azuma in a brawl.

You're back!

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The dive bombing aiming reticule is a small circle unlike the others which have a lone narrow elliptical aiming reticule.  So, that means you can attack a ship with dive bombers from any direction.  You will routinely get citadel hits, but at only 9000 damage each.

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On 4/1/2020 at 11:17 AM, Kagenomure said:

Just wondering what people think about the graff zepplin CV, is it good or bad?

what is good about it and what is bad? I ask cuase atm i have the indomitable but i was thinking about getting the Graff but not sure if it is worth it

Good ship. Dive bombers hit from the port and starboard though, not the aft or stern. If you can make Indomitable work graf should be a cinch.

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On 4/1/2020 at 11:17 AM, Kagenomure said:

Just wondering what people think about the graff zepplin CV, is it good or bad?

what is good about it and what is bad? I ask cuase atm i have the indomitable but i was thinking about getting the Graff but not sure if it is worth it

I don't know why people think she is bad

  The planes are stupid fast and the torps do less damage but you get a lot more hit than other cv.

The AP bombs are great.

It decently worth a pick up.

Edited by jags_domain

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18 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

I don't know why people think she is bad

  The planes are stupid fast and the torps do less damage but you get a lot more hit than other cv.

The AP bombs are great.

 It decently worth a pick up.

Disagree about the AP bombs, their circle reticle means even on a perfect run it's a dice roll if they will hit at all, much less hit in a way that will do something. She isn't a bad ship but compared to the other T8 CVs she is a bit lacking.

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11 hours ago, Tekina_ said:

Disagree about the AP bombs, their circle reticle means even on a perfect run it's a dice roll if they will hit at all, much less hit in a way that will do something. She isn't a bad ship but compared to the other T8 CVs she is a bit lacking.

I would go Lex, Graff/Sipan then shok.

The reason Shok is last is because her planes die so fast its hard to get strikes to land.

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