Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
anonym_9qa81sg1ET3c

High tier needs long range torpedoes

16 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Members
757 posts

I'm speaking of T10 here. The more I think about it the more I realize T10 sucks so bad. It's the amount of BB camping in the back of the map and the 4-5 radar cruisers a team. Sure add a CV in there too. Playing ships like the T8 Asashio is what got this on my mind. It really breaks up this stalemate of rinse and repeat frustration many of us feel. There seems to be nothing else that T10 faces with long lance torps other than the Asahio, and the useless 20km Shimakaze torpedoes. Cruiser torpedoes maybe but both those are far and few between. Edge cases of it if you will.

You may be saying wouldn't 15-20km torps causes even more camping? Well absolutely not. This was what was said way back in the day in support of the 20km Shimakaze torpedo nerf. It was supposed to be the magic tonic that cured all that ails when it comes to battleships camping in the back. Nothing ever changed. We still have the same old back of the map staleness.

My second point is all the short range torpedo ships constantly force you into radar range where one of about five ships end your day with the press of a single button. If you do survive somebody else is usually in range to chain the radar. Most of the torpedoes at that tier are between 10-13km. The long ones usually suffer from poor detection, and can be spotted from the moon.

My last observation on this topic is the inclusion of European destroyers. It seems War Gaming is trying to test longer range torpedoes in high tier again with the Halland coming soon. I believe 15km if I am not mistaken. At the same time they are also testing higher speed torpedoes to combat the power creep. That being the proliferation of detection tools( Hydro, Vigilance, Torpedo Lookout System, special commanders) and BBs doing 40+ knots. What I will say about the European torpedoes  is I'm extremely disappointed to their overly cautious approach to this by giving them T4 like damage. This is half baked, and causes issues with the line becoming hybrids of mediocrity. I would really like to see War Gaming address the marginalization of what is the easist ordinance to dodge in the game. Give destroyers their torpedoes back.

 

Thoughts? 

Edited by anonym_9qa81sg1ET3c
spelling
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,849
[RKLES]
[RKLES]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
6,495 posts
22,925 battles
8 minutes ago, Ban_CV_Complainers said:

I'm speaking of T10 here. The more I think about it the more I realize T10 sucks so bad. It's the amount of BB camping in the back of the map and the 4-5 radar cruisers a team. Sure add a CV in there too. Playing ships like the T8 Asashio is what got this on my mind. It really breaks up this stalemate of rinse and repeat frustration many of us feel. There seems to be nothing else that T10 faces with long lance torps other than the Asahio, and the useless 20km Shimakaze torpedoes. Cruiser torpedoes maybe but both those are far and few between. Edge cases of it if you will.

You may be saying wouldn't 15-20km torps causes even more camping? Well absolutely not. This was what was said way back in the day in support of the 20km Shimakaze torpedo nerf. It was supposed to be the magic tonic that cured all that ails when it comes to battleships camping in the back. Nothing ever changed. We still have the same old back of the map staleness.

My second point is all the short range torpedo ships constantly force you into radar range where one of about five ships end your day with the press of a single button. If you do survive somebody else is usually in range to chain the radar. Most of the torpedoes at that tier are between 10-13km. The long ones usually suffer from poor detection, and can be spotted from the moon.

My last observation on this topic is the inclusion of European destroyers. It seems War Gaming is trying to test longer range torpedoes in high tier again with the Halland coming soon. I believe 15km if I am not mistaken. At the same time they are also testing higher speed torpedoes to combat the power creep. That being the proliferation of detection tools( Hydro, Vigilance, Torpedo Lookout System, special commanders) and BBs doing 40+ knots. What I will say about the European torpedoes  is I'm extremely disappointed to their overly cautious approach to this by giving them T4 like damage. This is half baked, and causes issues with the line becoming hybrids of mediocrity. I would really like to see War Gaming address the marginalization of what is the easist ordinance to dodge in the game. Give destroyers their torpedoes back.

 

Thoughts? 

They nerfed detection on IJN torpedoes that caused the camping breakout.

Gearing has 16.5 range.

Somers has 16.5 range.

Shimmy 12 km are better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
Guest
0 posts
2 minutes ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

They nerfed detection on IJN torpedoes that caused the camping breakout.

Gearing has 16.5 range.

Somers has 16.5 range.

Shimmy 12 km are better.

I wish I could get my hands on a Somers but it is steel. That leaves USSR, Germany, UK, France and Pan Asia with no long lance torp. Basically the Gearing is your only option unless you grind steel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,080
[WORX]
Members
12,659 posts
19,907 battles

few things....

  • Detection of 1.8km  must be lowered...
  • BBs maneuverability has to be nerfed to reflect their size... 
    • Meaning BBs should not be able to turn like cruisers or DDs
      • This also means cruisers shouldn't turn like bricks
  • Torp attacks between torps should be less then the current avg of 2min per attack..

Knowing this is high tier (especially tier 10)... Its not going to happen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10,393
[INTEL]
Members
13,459 posts
38,207 battles

Camping has nothing to do with torps. It is caused by the fact that offense scales faster than defense as you climb the tiers, until at last, at T10, offense is far more powerful than defense. This means that any ship that pushes up early is killed right away. Hence everyone camps since no one can lead a push.

Once you throw CVs into the mix it gets even worse. Now ships cannot reposition close to islands without being spotted, and so in high tier matches you gets lots of spawnfests where people stay out past 18 kms since the CV constantly spots them. CVs make gameplay moronic and stupid. They need to be removed.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
Guest
0 posts
10 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

Camping has nothing to do with torps. It is caused by the fact that offense scales faster than defense as you climb the tiers, until at last, at T10, offense is far more powerful than defense. This means that any ship that pushes up early is killed right away. Hence everyone camps since no one can lead a push.

Once you throw CVs into the mix it gets even worse. Now ships cannot reposition close to islands without being spotted, and so in high tier matches you gets lots of spawnfests where people stay out past 18 kms since the CV constantly spots them. CVs make gameplay moronic and stupid. They need to be removed.

CVs have been in the game since the beginning and only now are the new QQ. It was always torpedo soup as the excuse for back line sniping and camping.

 

 

image.thumb.png.af03ca724a279babb7af43d5c2f6d710.png

Edited by Ban_CV_Complainers
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
12,597 posts
14,320 battles
2 hours ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

They nerfed detection on IJN torpedoes that caused the camping breakout.

Gearing has 16.5 range.

Somers has 16.5 range.

Shimmy 12 km are better.

Would like to add that Yoshino can mount 20km torpedoes.

Zao can do 12km torpedoes.

Shimakaze with the 12km torpedoes are optimal, the 20km torpedoes are certainly usable if teams are bad and you have practice with them.

Yueyang has 13.5km torpedoes but can’t hit DDs with them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
967
Members
2,070 posts
12,694 battles
2 hours ago, Ban_CV_Complainers said:

CVs have been in the game since the beginning and only now are the new QQ. It was always torpedo soup as the excuse for back line sniping and camping.

 

 

Believe me people were complaining about CV from the beginning as well. The community has never liked them, 5 years on and WG still hasn't figured it out. Anyway excuse is the correct word. They nerfed torps and people camped harder. They added hydro and radar to everything and people camped harder. They nerfed flood damage and people camped harder. They nerfed a bunch of other stuff and people camped harder. I've been in matches with no DD and people camped harder. Few years back I saw a streamer get into a match with 9 BB / 3 CA and people camped like their life depended on it cause it did. It's never been torps, that's just an excuse. Guns are the problem. Long range accuracy allowing people to blap you from across the map is the problem.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10,393
[INTEL]
Members
13,459 posts
38,207 battles
2 hours ago, Ban_CV_Complainers said:

CVs have been in the game since the beginning and only now are the new QQ. It was always torpedo soup as the excuse for back line sniping and camping.

 

 

 

 Yes, lots of people didn't get it. In the RTS days aircraft carriers appeared in one out of four or five matches.  Now they are far more common.

The problem is the offense if WG ever decides to fix the offense of power of t10 ships camping will end.

Note that torpedo spam has no such effect in any lower tiers. Even though destroyers can reload torpedoes much faster. Yeah, if you play a TR6 game with two aircraft carriers  You will often see the same spawn camping by BBs.

It's aircraft carriers coupled with the offensive power of high-tier ships. That is causing all the problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45
[NFJF]
Beta Testers
211 posts
9,721 battles

There is the pan European line coming if you have a long range torps line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
116
[H_]
Members
762 posts
12,656 battles

Long range torps?   You think all T10 DD's should have 15-20k torps?  I think that's a really bad idea, talk about making folks want to stand off and camp more then it's already happening?   Not to mention team killing/damaging..some yahoo "oh look i have 20k torps" i'm 8k behind my teammates cruiser and my target is 10k past him.. i can hit him"   

10 hours ago, Navalpride33 said:

few things....

  • Detection of 1.8km  must be lowered...
  • BBs maneuverability has to be nerfed to reflect their size... 
    • Meaning BBs should not be able to turn like cruisers or DDs
      • This also means cruisers shouldn't turn like bricks
  • Torp attacks between torps should be less then the current avg of 2min per attack..

I think these items here would be the better way to go.. although the last item i'm not sure i fully agree with.. 

Hi speed torps, i'm sorry 75, 85, 95 knot torps? should not be in the game. Even powder puff hits.

In retrospect why not, give everyone 20k torps going 100 knots, 30 second reload with 20k damage per torp.. ..  Any sense of reality in this game went out the window long ago.. Heck might make playing DD's actually really fun again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,080
[WORX]
Members
12,659 posts
19,907 battles
5 minutes ago, S16_Hunter said:

In retrospect why not, give everyone 20k torps going 100 knots, 30 second reload with 20k damage per torp.. ..

I would not go that extreme, just lower the attacks between AVG from 2min, to say 1min to a min and 20sec avg... Tier 10 is not like low tiers or mid tiers... Opportunity to torp at tier 10... Its scarce

Also I would argue to keep the torp DD play style constant to where, you dont have to relearn the play style again. Keeping the torp reload constant with mid tier, is a more tolerable solution...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,757
[CMFRT]
[CMFRT]
Banned
16,985 posts

It's becoming a bit of morbid humor for me to read these threads that push "this will fix camping" threads that promote ideas that will increase camping.   If it's not "more long range torps" it's "I can't wait for subs" or "kill radar to end camping" or "nerf aircraft vision range to end camping".  

People camp because they don't want to advance into the unknown, or into "skill soup".   Adding more long-range torpedoes, adding more smoke, adding more ambush units, making it harder to see what's out in front of them, will only do more to discourage forward motion.  

 

Here's my suggestion to all the people who don't want big ships (BBs, big CAs) to camp -- play a BB or big CA, yourself, and play YOUR ship how YOU think it should be played.  "Be the change you want to see in the game" or some such platitude.   But some of you won't do that, you don't want to play the big ships, you just want the big ships to be played how you think they should be played.   

Edited by KilljoyCutter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,849
[RKLES]
[RKLES]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
6,495 posts
22,925 battles
On 3/31/2020 at 11:00 PM, Ban_CV_Complainers said:

I wish I could get my hands on a Somers but it is steel. That leaves USSR, Germany, UK, France and Pan Asia with no long lance torp. Basically the Gearing is your only option unless you grind steel.

I play 5 to 10 clan battles per week of each season. 

I stop ranked at 10.

I got enough steel to buy Black with coupon last year and somers last month without coupon.

Being semi active in clan battles helps.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,849
[RKLES]
[RKLES]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
6,495 posts
22,925 battles
On 4/1/2020 at 1:43 AM, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Would like to add that Yoshino can mount 20km torpedoes.

Zao can do 12km torpedoes.

Shimakaze with the 12km torpedoes are optimal, the 20km torpedoes are certainly usable if teams are bad and you have practice with them.

Yueyang has 13.5km torpedoes but can’t hit DDs with them.

So true.

Just got Pan European  tier 9. 13.5 km torps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,074
[ARS]
Beta Testers
5,798 posts
6,026 battles
On 3/31/2020 at 11:13 PM, Navalpride33 said:

few things....

  • Detection of 1.8km  must be lowered...
  • BBs maneuverability has to be nerfed to reflect their size... 
    • Meaning BBs should not be able to turn like cruisers or DDs
      • This also means cruisers shouldn't turn like bricks
  • Torp attacks between torps should be less then the current avg of 2min per attack..

Knowing this is high tier (especially tier 10)... Its not going to happen

You do know that BB agility is already nerfed compared to reality, yes?

You do know that a BB cannot dodge a torpedo spread if it starts dodging when it detects the spread.  The BB player has to anticipate torpedoes and dodge before he knows they are there, or else somebody closer to the launch point has to detect them for the BB to intentionally dodge them.

And finally, Shima 20k torps pre-nerf CAUSED BBs AND CAs to camp in the back because that was the only place remotely safe from them.  I don't understand this magical thinking where long range torpedoes only affect ships in the back.  Weapons, of all kinds, have greater impact on closer ships more than more distant ones.

Once again, a reminder of the pre Shima nerf, pre radar, pre hydro gameplay:

Where in that was the motivation for the BBs to push up.  Note that the BB that pushed furthest forward died first and all the others could do to extend their life was flee to the rear.

Oh, and OP, I don't think I have EVER been on a team with 5 radars.  Normal seems to be 0-2 per side, occasionally 3 and almost never more than that.

  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×