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Nergy

Change in Penalty Code

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I think this need to be redesigned to this.

Calculate the Torpedo damage to ally

If over penalty threshold

Apply Penalty (turn ship pink)

Now apply (reflect) the damage to the correct ship (the pink one)

else

Old code

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1 minute ago, Nergy said:

I think this need to be redesigned to this.

Calculate the Torpedo damage to ally

If over penalty threshold

Apply Penalty (turn ship pink)

Now apply (reflect) the damage to the correct ship (the pink one)

else

Old code

Currently, it appears that if you do roughly 10% damage to an ally, you go pink. It's easier to get to the 10% with torps. All weapons are reduced in damage already when they hit an ally.

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I never liked friendly fire, but at same time... there needs to be some risk, i have always preferred killshooter, which is basically as you said, if you hit a teammate, you take the damage, can be applied a at 100% or any reduction so long as it still hurts.

At the end of the day, if friendly fire takes out a teammate I think we would all be happier if it were the shooter... 

Granted in this game it maybe tough to do with the slow gameplay and the lack of maneuverability ..  there is a slim window for it to be abused, and while most wouldn't drive in front of torps intentionally... some would for giggles or grief i am sure..

It took 8 years or so but they finally removed it from WoT and that did remove at least one source of toxicity, seems like they maybe taking it a little more seriously over there with the introduction of Anon, and removing the friendly fire.

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They removed it from Scenarios.

So if we make it to the end...  All 5 stars...  and we're just waiting for the game to end --

It's a free-for-all shooting and torping each other.

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20 minutes ago, SKurj said:

 

It took 8 years or so but they finally removed it from WoT and that did remove at least one source of toxicity, seems like they maybe taking it a little more seriously over there with the introduction of Anon, and removing the friendly fire.

It didn't remove toxicity. Now players can abuse physics to mess with other players, or continually shoot and stun them with arty, and you can't shoot back anymore.

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Or they could you know... remove FF all together.

The presence of FF enables griefing and toxicity, it does not prevent it.

Additionally, it is implemented with prejudice.

Why is it that when I **RAM** a friendly ship it barely tickles them, but my torps do massive damage and turn me pink real quick?

Key factoid #1: You NEVER lose control of driving your ship.
Key factoid #2: You CANNOT control torpedoes after launching them.

If one is expected to take responsibility for the ONLY ordinance which cannot be fired *over* allies, and one where you do not have control over, why isn't the SAME expectation placed (and more) on people driving their ships and not piloting them into friendlies?

If it is not removed, it should be implemented based on the control of the user and the availability of prevention in the first place. For example: Ramming would do 100% damage as it does to enemies and instantly turn you pink, Main battery fire would do 50% (since you can easily fire it over friendlies, it is more likely intentional), and Torps would do 25%

 

Edited by Varknyn12
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30 minutes ago, Wombatmetal said:

It didn't remove toxicity. Now players can abuse physics to mess with other players, or continually shoot and stun them with arty, and you can't shoot back anymore.

sure it did, it removed the majority of the toxicity related to TK, stun was already there so that didn't change much and physics abuse has always been in the game, and is reportable and a bannable offence.  Too many stuns apparently can also earn bans, but I haven't actually seen that myself.  

shooting back was always grounds for sanctions as well

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1 hour ago, Nergy said:

I think this need to be redesigned to this.

Calculate the Torpedo damage to ally

If over penalty threshold

Apply Penalty (turn ship pink)

Now apply (reflect) the damage to the correct ship (the pink one)

else

Old code

An improvement to the friendly fire would be the guilty party would pay their victim's service cost plus 10%.

Please don't tell me this would cause some player to run into the path of your torpedoes. That is nonsense because if someone can run into the path of your torpedoes than you should have never fired them.

 

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How about we leave the whole thing alone because it is fine how it is?  There isn't a ton of griefing going on where people are purposely shooting at you like some would have you believe.  Sometimes a torp will hit you or you will hit a teammate.  It happens occasionally.  Get over it and play the next game.  Your ship isn't gone forever.

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39 minutes ago, Admiral_Andy said:

How about we leave the whole thing alone because it is fine how it is?  There isn't a ton of griefing going on where people are purposely shooting at you like some would have you believe.  Sometimes a torp will hit you or you will hit a teammate.  It happens occasionally.  Get over it and play the next game.  Your ship isn't gone forever.

NOOOOOO....I WANT HIM BANNED...HE HIT ME...& IT HURT...

MY NECK...MY BACK...MY NECK & MY BACK...I'll settle out of court for $20

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2 hours ago, Nergy said:

I think this need to be redesigned to this.

Calculate the Torpedo damage to ally

If over penalty threshold

Apply Penalty (turn ship pink)

Now apply (reflect) the damage to the correct ship (the pink one)

else

Old code

Bring us back to the days where we could sink pinks and not be punished for it.  Would be nice as I've seen pink's actually go out of their way to take any damage they could just to turn someone else pink.

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Yeah due to the individual nature of players in randoms I think there should probably either be no friendly fire damage, or if there is any (to use as a mechanic to have a risk shooting into a brawl or fire torpedoes without checking what's behind your target) it should just be reflected damage, that way it serves its purpose and is even more of a motivator to the selfish player.  Friendly fire in its current form only really belongs in competitive modes with coordinated teams like Clan Battles.  I used to think it was a good thing to have to make people check their fire, but as a WoT vet for a number of years followed by playing here since beta I have long since seen that most friendly fire is griefing even after they made the penalties more harsh (before that it wasn't uncommon to see players with grudges kill a green for being someone they didn't like or to kill carriers on principle).

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9 hours ago, SKurj said:

I never liked friendly fire, but at same time... there needs to be some risk, i have always preferred killshooter, which is basically as you said, if you hit a teammate, you take the damage, can be applied a at 100% or any reduction so long as it still hurts.

At the end of the day, if friendly fire takes out a teammate I think we would all be happier if it were the shooter... 

Granted in this game it maybe tough to do with the slow gameplay and the lack of maneuverability ..  there is a slim window for it to be abused, and while most wouldn't drive in front of torps intentionally... some would for giggles or grief i am sure..

It took 8 years or so but they finally removed it from WoT and that did remove at least one source of toxicity, seems like they maybe taking it a little more seriously over there with the introduction of Anon, and removing the friendly fire.

 

6 hours ago, FirestormMk3 said:

Yeah due to the individual nature of players in randoms I think there should probably either be no friendly fire damage, or if there is any (to use as a mechanic to have a risk shooting into a brawl or fire torpedoes without checking what's behind your target) it should just be reflected damage, that way it serves its purpose and is even more of a motivator to the selfish player.  Friendly fire in its current form only really belongs in competitive modes with coordinated teams like Clan Battles.  I used to think it was a good thing to have to make people check their fire, but as a WoT vet for a number of years followed by playing here since beta I have long since seen that most friendly fire is griefing even after they made the penalties more harsh (before that it wasn't uncommon to see players with grudges kill a green for being someone they didn't like or to kill carriers on principle).

 

It doesn't take long for friendly fire to start being reflected. WG knows that occasionally players will make a mistake and hit a friendly by accident, so that is why damage is not reflected immediately. But continued hits will be reflected back on the shooter. WG tweaked the friendly fire rules in the past and I think that the current rules are a good balance between the oops my bad and the I don't care if I hit an ally.

 

8 hours ago, Varknyn12 said:

Or they could you know... remove FF all together.

The presence of FF enables griefing and toxicity, it does not prevent it.

Additionally, it is implemented with prejudice.

Why is it that when I **RAM** a friendly ship it barely tickles them, but my torps do massive damage and turn me pink real quick?

Key factoid #1: You NEVER lose control of driving your ship.
Key factoid #2: You CANNOT control torpedoes after launching them.

If one is expected to take responsibility for the ONLY ordinance which cannot be fired *over* allies, and one where you do not have control over, why isn't the SAME expectation placed (and more) on people driving their ships and not piloting them into friendlies?

If it is not removed, it should be implemented based on the control of the user and the availability of prevention in the first place. For example: Ramming would do 100% damage as it does to enemies and instantly turn you pink, Main battery fire would do 50% (since you can easily fire it over friendlies, it is more likely intentional), and Torps would do 25%

 

You have control over your torps with the left mouse button firing them. Look before you shoot to see if you might hit a friendly if they turn towards your torps. If a friendly can turn into your torps, you probably should not fire them.

I'm not saying never fire torps, but if you take a risky shot and hit a friendly, then own up to it.

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12 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

It doesn't take long for friendly fire to start being reflected.

Eventually even prolonged "friendly" ramming will be reflected. I saw some [insert unmentionable, terrible word here] in co-op last night deliberately ram a colleague and use him as a bulldozer blade for most of the battle. That usually has the effect of getting the one being rammed killed without it necessarily impacting on the one doing the ramming.

It's the worst, most cowardly, most underhanded and most disgusting thing you can do to a team-mate. It's even worse than torping or one-shotting them, because if it happens soon enough in the ram, you won't get anything more than a trifling warning in chat for it.

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9 hours ago, Varknyn12 said:

Key factoid #1: You NEVER lose control of driving your ship.
Key factoid #2: You CANNOT control torpedoes after launching them.

#1:  Ships don't exactly handle like race cars.  They turn at different rates and drift out at various speeds.  Ships also accelerate and slow down at different rates.  Ships have even beached themselves by sliding sideways up onto an island and couldn't get off.  So, while you never lose control, you also never have complete control.

#2:  Only you CAN control torpedos by choosing when and where to launch them.  If there is a ship that can get hit, it becomes your choice to take that chance.

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1 hour ago, Murcc said:

#1:  Ships don't exactly handle like race cars.  They turn at different rates and drift out at various speeds.  Ships also accelerate and slow down at different rates.  Ships have even beached themselves by sliding sideways up onto an island and couldn't get off.  So, while you never lose control, you also never have complete control.

#2:  Only you CAN control torpedos by choosing when and where to launch them.  If there is a ship that can get hit, it becomes your choice to take that chance.

How do ships slide sideways in WoWs?

I was rammed the other day while i was driving, i think the Warspite, by a player in a DD, he apologized, turned away and then immediately back into me...  and didn't apologize for the 2nd...  i just held my course...

 

So based on posts above, is there reflected damage in WoWs for anything apart from ramming?

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13 hours ago, SKurj said:

I never liked friendly fire, but at same time... there needs to be some risk, i have always preferred killshooter, which is basically as you said, if you hit a teammate, you take the damage, can be applied a at 100% or any reduction so long as it still hurts.

At the end of the day, if friendly fire takes out a teammate I think we would all be happier if it were the shooter... 

Would further encourage the griefers and trolls who deliberately try to take friendly fire, block team fire, etc. 

 

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14 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Would further encourage the griefers and trolls who deliberately try to take friendly fire, block team fire, etc. 

 

you should have taken my entire quote where i said just that... 

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13 minutes ago, SKurj said:

you should have taken my entire quote where i said just that... 

I jumped the gun because much of the playerbase seems to just disregard or dismiss the very real issue of people who get hit on purpose. 

 

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2 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

I jumped the gun because much of the playerbase seems to just disregard or dismiss the very real issue of people who get hit on purpose. 

 

i hear ya i am guilty of the same :)

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4 hours ago, Murcc said:

#1:  Ships don't exactly handle like race cars.  They turn at different rates and drift out at various speeds.  Ships also accelerate and slow down at different rates.  Ships have even beached themselves by sliding sideways up onto an island and couldn't get off.  So, while you never lose control, you also never have complete control.

#2:  Only you CAN control torpedos by choosing when and where to launch them.  If there is a ship that can get hit, it becomes your choice to take that chance.

1.) That doesn't matter. You never lose control of your ship. You do have complete control. If you crash into an island it is 100% Your fault. *YOU* didn't pay attention, *YOU* didn't turn in time, *YOU* didn't slow down in time.
Your claim is like the same benighted individuals who believe a firearm is an animate object.

2.) You cannot control torpedoes *after* they are launched. Again, you *NEVER* lose control of your ship. The same goes for the people that are hit by friendly torpedoes. They never lost control of their ship, so technically by all measures of the term, they are at fault at least partially no matter what.

With FF turned off, the same people that block fire with it on, will still do it. The difference is, is that they cannot grief because the person who hit them will no longer be penalized. Additionally, these matches are 12 players on a team. If 2 people are involved in an incident that involves friendly fire (with it turned on), and that incident results in either a chunk of HP missing from one of those individuals or even one of those individuals being sunk. That result has also griefed the 10 other completely innocent players by reducing, sometimes greatly, their probability of winning the match.

So *factually*, friendly fire being on promotes and enables griefing and toxicity leaps and bounds more than it being on ever could. If it has to be on, it needs to be implemented via a single standard. Control vs Intent.

Ramming a friendly? You never lose control, so the probability of intent is high. FF damage and penalty should be high/full

Hitting a friendly with main guns? The probability of being in a situation where it wasn't intentional due to such availability of firing *over* allies is extremely low. The FF damage and penalty should be medium.

Hitting a friendly with tops? The probability of being in a situation where it was intentional is far lower than unintentional. Loss of control starts immediately after launch. Developers refuse to allow intuitive player control of depth on the fly or making DWT an equippable standard. FF damage and penalty should be LOW.



1.) Say you are driving your car and slam into another car at high speeds.
2.) Earlier that day you were replacing your brake pads and didn't tighten one of the wheels on all of the way. Due to the crash, that wheel breaks off and rolls down the road at high speed and slams into another car.

(1) Can be just as intentional as it can be unintentional. Even if it is unintentional but careless, you have control over your car. Carelessness does not remove the fault. Intent level medium, Carelessness level high.
(2) Whilst it can be intentional as it can be unintentional that you didn't tighten one of the wheels properly. The probability of it being intentional is low. Additionally, you did not physically make the wheel break off when you got into the crash. You did not physically throw it down the road nor roll yourself, just as you did not have any ability to "aim" it nor control the location of impact. You can be at fault for carelessness, but the intent is very low.

Edited by Varknyn12
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*sigh*... here I go again.

 

There is a simple solution to FF and TKing.   100% of the damage is reflected back on the shooter. 

If it was accidental then lesson learned and move on.

The second time it happens in a 60 day period it's a 48 hour time out.

The third time it's a two week time out.

The fourth time it's a perma-ban.

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15 hours ago, AVR_Project said:

It's a free-for-all shooting and torping each other.

So satisfying and a good way to celebrate while waiting for Raptor to drag its leaking stern into the circle. 

There's a certain girl that started shooting me at the beginning of the match, "For good luck."  Fortunately, that practice is no longer quite so widespread...

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15 hours ago, kgh52 said:

An improvement to the friendly fire would be the guilty party would pay their victim's service cost plus 10%.

Please don't tell me this would cause some player to run into the path of your torpedoes. That is nonsense because if someone can run into the path of your torpedoes than you should have never fired them.

 

So.....since ramming damage is considered friendly fire....you want to pay someone's service cost plus 10% because they bumped into you? Or with the bug in being able to shoot down friendly planes, you want to pay a CV's service cost?

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57 minutes ago, JCC45 said:

*sigh*... here I go again.

 

There is a simple solution to FF and TKing.   100% of the damage is reflected back on the shooter. 

If it was accidental then lesson learned and move on.

The second time it happens in a 60 day period it's a 48 hour time out.

The third time it's a two week time out.

The fourth time it's a perma-ban.

And watch the griefers and trolls try even harder to eat green shots. 

 

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