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World of Warships Proposal: Pan-European Cruisers

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Frosty had a go at it, and Lert's also doing one, so now it's my turn.

Here we go

World of Warships Proposal: Pan European Cruisers

By Shrayes Bhagavatula

This proposal would serve to implement the famous and historical Pan-European cruisers into World of Warships. The branch consists exclusively of light cruisers,and with several unique and historical premiums. Please note that I had to create a fictional based upon real life designs in order to fill the Tier X slot

National Traits of Light Cruisers

  • Guns use Semi-HE shells, which have 1 / 3 Caliber penetration rule, but a very poor fire chance
  • Fairly weak armor throughout the line, though it improves towards the higher end
  • Rapid fire 152mm guns 
  • Insane Repair Party Consumable allows for massive HP recovery
  • Excellent concealment that bests the British Light Cruisers and is even better than some Destroyers
  • Unique Surveillance Radar consumable ( 8.5km range, 60 second uptime )
  • Murderously powerful Anti-Aircraft Defenses above Tier VIII with access to Defensive AA fire
  • NO Torpedo Protection whatsoever 

4 New Premium Ships

  • IX HNLMS Johan Evertsen ( Design 1047, Netherlands ) 
  • VII Baleares ( Canarias-class, Spain )
  • V ORP Dragon ( Danae-class 1942 upgrade, Polish Navy )
  • III Georgios Averof ( Greek navy )

Tech Tree Ships

  • I Gryf
  • II Fylgia ( Fylgia Class )
  • III Sumatra ( Java Class )
  • IV De Ruyter ( de Ruyter Class )
  • V Elli ( Condottieri-class, transferred to Hellenic Navy 1947 )
  • VI Almirante Cervera ( Almirante Cervera class )
  • VII Eendracht ( Eendracht class )
  • VIII Tre Konor  ( Tre Konor class )
  • IX De Zeven (De Zeven Class )
  • X Andreas Schifter ( Fictional design, expanded De Zeven class )

Note: All ships are fully upgraded without commander skills or upgrades. Here we go.


Technology Tree Ships


I Gryf

It’s literally the Gryf. What more do you want me to say?


II HSwMS Fylgia ( Sweden )

Armor

  • HP: 15,600
  • -Armor: 10mm - 100mm

Armaments: 8 x 1 152mm

  • 1600 HE damage ( 5% fire chance, 51mm pen ), 2500 AP
  • 11.8km range
  • 10 second reload
  • 10 x 57mm ( 3.0km range, 4.0 second reload, 900 HE damage )

AA: 2 x 57mm, 2 x 37mm

  • Range: 3.0km
  • DPS: 33

Maneuverability

  • 22 knots
  • 550m Turning radius
  • 7.9 second rudder

Stealth

  • Surface: 10.1km
  • Air: 6.6km
  • When on fire: 12.1km

III HNLMS Sumatra ( Netherlands )

Armor

  • HP: 21,900
  • -Armor: 13mm- 75mm

Armaments: 10 x 1 150mm

  • 1600 HE damage ( 5% fire chance, 51mm pen ), 2500 AP
  • 12.1km range
  • 10 second reload

AA: 6 x 40mm

  • Range: 3.0km
  • DPS: 50

Maneuverability

  • 31 knots
  • 590m Turning radius
  • 7.9 second rudder

Stealth

  • Surface: 10.9km
  • Air: 6.6km
  • When on fire: 12.9km

IV HNLMS de Ruyter ( Netherlands )

Armor

  • HP: 24,100
  • -Armor: 14mm - 50mm

Armaments: 3 x 2, 1 x 1 152mm

  • 1600 HE damage ( 5% fire chance, 51mm pen ), 2500 AP
  • 12.5km range
  • 8 second reload

AA: 10 x 40mm, 8 x 12.7mm

  • Range: 3.5km
  • DPS: 98

Maneuverability

  • 32 knots
  • 610m Turning radius
  • 7.6 second rudder

Stealth

  • Surface: 11.4km
  • Air: 6.5km
  • When on fire: 13.4km

V Elli ( Greece, former Condottieri class Eugenio de Savoia)

HP: 27,000

  • -Armor: 15mm - 70mm
  • Armaments: 4 x 2 152mm

1600 HE damage ( 5% fire chance, 51mm pen ), 2500 AP

  • 13.7km range
  • 8 second reload
  • 3 x 2 100mm ( 3.6km range, 1000 HE damage )
  • 2 x 3 533mm Torpedo Tubes (10km range, 76 knots, 7800 damage)

AA: 8 x 37mm, 12 x 13.2mm, Dual Purpose Secondaries

  • Range: 3.5km
  • DPS: 101

Maneuverability

  • 36.5 knots
  • 740m Turning radius
  • 7.9 second rudder

Stealth

  • Surface: 11.5km
  • Air: 7.3km
  • When on fire: 13.5km

VI Almirante Cervera (Proposed Refit )

Armor

  • HP: 30,400
  • -Armor: 19mm - 70mm

Armaments: 4 x 2 152mm

  • 1650 HE damage ( 5% fire chance, 51mm pen ), 2500 AP
  • 14.8km range
  • 8 second reload
  • 4 x 2 102mm ( 3.6km range, 1000 HE damage )
  • 4 x 3 533mm Torpedo Tubes (10km range, 76 knots, 7800 damage)

AA: 8 x 40mm, 12 x  20mm, Dual Purpose Secondaries

  • Range: 3.5km
  • DPS: 141

Maneuverability

  • 33 knots
  • 740m Turning radius
  • 8.0 second rudder

Stealth

  • Surface: 11.0km
  • Air: 7.1km
  • When on fire: 13.0km

VII HNLMS Eendracht 

  • HP: 34,200
  • Armor: 19mm - 76mm

Armaments: 2 x 3, 2 x 2 152mm

  • 1650 HE damage ( 5% fire chance, 51mm pen ), 2500 AP
  • 15.1km range
  • 7.5 second reload
  • 6 x 2 102mm ( 3.6km range, 1000 HE damage )
  • 2 x 3 533mm Torpedo Tubes (12km range, 76 knots, 8500 damage)

AA:   8 x 40mm, 12 x 20mm

  • Range: 3.5km
  • DPS: 141

Maneuverability

  • 31 knots
  • 780m Turning radius
  • 8.4 second rudder

Stealth

  • Surface: 11.2km
  • Air: 7.4km
  • When on fire: 13.2km

VIII HSwMS Tre Konor

Armor

  • HP: 36,900
  • -Armor: 25mm - 70mm

Armaments: 1 x 3, 2 x 2 152mm DP

  • 1700 HE damage ( 5% fire chance, 51mm pen ), 2800 AP
  • 15.4km range
  • 4.9 second reload

AA:   20 x 40mm, 7 x 25mm, Dual Purpose Main Armaments

  • Range: 5.8km
  • DPS: 224

Maneuverability

  • 33 knots
  • 740m Turning radius
  • 7.4 second rudder

Stealth

  • Surface: 10.6km
  • Air: 6.5km
  • When on fire: 14.1km

IX HNLMS De Zeven

Armor

  • HP: 40,500
  • -Armor: 25mm - 76mm

Armaments: 4 x 2 152mm DP

  • 1500 HE damage ( 4% fire chance, 42mm pen ), 2800 AP
  • 15.5km range
  • 3.3 second reload
  • 2 x 3 533mm Torpedo Tubes (12km range, 76 knots, 10700 damage)

AA:   16 x 57mm, 16 x 40mm, Dual Purpose Primary Armaments

  • Range: 6.2km
  • DPS: 283

Maneuverability

  • 32 knots
  • 740m Turning radius
  • 7.4second rudder

Stealth

  • Surface: 11.3km
  • Air: 6.5km
  • When on fire: 14.1km

X  HNLMS Andreas Schifter ( Expanded de Zeven class )

Armor

  • HP: 41,400
  • -Armor: 25mm - 100mm

Armaments: 5 x 2 152mm DP

  • 1700 HE damage ( 5% fire chance, 51mm pen ), 2800 AP
  • 15.9km range
  • 3.0 second reload
  • 2 x 3 533mm Torpedo Tubes (12km range, 76 knots, 10700 damage)

AA:   8 x 2 57mm, 10 x 40mm, 24 x 40mm, Dual Purpose Primary Armaments

  • Range: 6.9km
  • DPS: 592

Maneuverability

  • 33 knots
  • 740m Turning radius
  • 7.4second rudder

Stealth

  • Surface: 10.7km
  • Air: 6.9km
  • When on fire: 13.8km

THE PREMIUMS


III  Georgios Averof ( Royal Hellenic Navy )

Armor

  • HP: 29,100
  • -Armor: 15mm - 200mm
  • Torpedo Belt :9%

Armaments

  • Primary 2 x 2 234mm ( 20 second reload, 12.9km range, 3300 / 6600 )
  • Primary 4 x 2 190mm ( 20 second reload, 12.9km range, 2500 / 3300 )
  • Secondary 16 x 1 76mm ( 5 second reload, 3.6km range, 1800 )

AA: 4 x 1 76mm, 6 x 1 36mm

  • DPS: 41
  • Range: 3.0km

Maneuverability

  • 20 knots
  • 590m Turning radius
  • 9.1 second rudder

Stealth

  • Surface: 11.0km
  • Air: 6.1km
  • When on fire: 13.0km

V ORP Dragon

The ORP Dragon is a Danae-class cruiser ( formerly HMS Dragon ) delivered to the Polish navy in 1943. The ORP Dragon will differentiate from the Danae in the following aspects to facilitate and justify the higher tier

  • Reload time dropped from 7.5 seconds to 7.0 seconds
  • AA improved to 1942 Danae-class refit
  • HP pool improved to (V) Emerald’s value
  • Torpedoes replaced with torpedoes found on (V) Visby

VII Baleares ( Nationalist Spanish Navy )

Armor

  • HP: 37,900
  • -Armor: 25mm-51mm
  • Torpedo Reduction: 17%

Armaments

  • Primary 4 x 2 203mm ( 15.7km, 11 second reload, 3300 HE / 4900 AP)
  • Secondary 4 x 2 119mm ( 5.2km, 4 second reload, 1600 HE )
  • Torpedo 4 x 3 533mm ( 6km, 72 second reload, 64kn, 13,700 damage )

AA: 12 x 40mm, 3 x 20mm, DP secondaries

  • DPS: 155
  • Range: 5.2km

Maneuverability

  • 33 knots
  • 720m Turning radius
  • 10.8 second rudder

Stealth

  • Surface: 13.3km
  • Air: 7.8km
  • When on fire: 13.0km

IX Johan Evertsen ( Netherlands, Design 1047 )

HP: 59,400

  • -Armor: 15mm - 229mm
  • -Torpedo Protection: 20%
  • -DoT Duration: Battlecruiser

Armaments

  • Primary 3 x 3 283mm ( 20 second reload, 19.2km range, 4400 / 8200 )
  • Secondary 6 x 2 120mm ( 4 second reload, 6.5km range, 2100 )

AA: 6 x 2 57mm, 12 x 2 40mm, 8 x 4 20mm, DP Secondaries

  • DPS: 518
  • Range: 5.8km

Maneuverability

  • 34 knots
  • 850m Turning radius
  • 9.1 second rudder

Stealth

  • Surface: 14.8km
  • Air: 9.1km
  • When on fire: 16.8km

The Tech Tree Warships above have the following consumables

  • Damage Control Party ( from Tier 1, 5 seconds, 90 / 60 reset)
  • Repair Party (From Tier 6, 1.5% / sec, 20 seconds, 120 / 80 reset, 1 charge stock )
  • Hydroacoustic Search ( From Tier 4, 100 second action time, 3.5km / 5km range, 180/120 reset, 2 charges base )
  • Defensive AA Fire ( From Tier 8, 100% AA boost, 300% Flak Boost, 3 charges stock )
  • Surveillance Radar ( From Tier 8, 8.5km range, 60 second uptime, 180 / 120 reset )

The Premium Warships will have the Following Consumables

  • Georgios Averof will have the standard Battleship Damage Control Party and American Battleship Repair Party Consumables.
  • ORP Dragon will have the standard Cruiser Damage Control Party, Repair Party, and Crawling Smoke Generator consumables
  • Baleares will have the standard Cruiser Damage Control Party, Repair Party, and Hydroacoustic Search or Torpedo Reload Booster
  • Johan Evertsen will have the standard Cruiser Damage Control Party, American Battleship Repair Party, Hydroacoustic Search or Defensive AA fire, and Pan-European Surveillance Radar

I apologize for the lack of my usual detailing when it comes to this. I wanted to try and make this as easy to read and understand as possible. If that is not the case, I will simply redo it

As usual, if anyone has any questions, comments, or salt, do feel free and leave them in the comments down below

And @Lert, please do not kill me for this.

Peace!

Edited by Shrayes_Bhagavatula
Improved stealth, HE Penetration, RoF and Repair Party, as well as transition of Repair Party and Hydro to Tier 6 / 4, respectively, and Transition of DFAA to Tier 8, as well as plating improvement from 15mm to 25mm
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Nice job mate +1

Why 60 sec radar though? A doc of 3 could have the possibility (if you go with 3 per ship) of 9 mins constant radar! 

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No stealth radar tho. The range is only 8.5, as opposed to the 10km USN or 12km VMF Radar

:SerB:

edit: also, they cannot mount radar mod for an increase in radar uptime

Edited by Shrayes_Bhagavatula

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1 minute ago, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:

No stealth radar tho. The range is only 8.5, as opposed to the 10km USN or 12km VMF Radar

:SerB:

True but still hypothetically possible to keep a cap perma spotted for the length of some games although I get it’d be very difficult.

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1 minute ago, Bravo4zero said:

True but still hypothetically possible to keep a cap perma spotted for the length of some games although I get it’d be very difficult.

That's kind of the point. These ships are designed to murder DDs and plenes, but not much else.

:SerB:

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Just now, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:

That's kind of the point. These ships are designed to murder DDs and plenes, but not much else.

:SerB:

They’d certainly serve their purpose well! It’d be great to have one providing cover for a DD when it caps especially in a game with a CV but I’d be worried if i saw one on the enemy team! Lol

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4 hours ago, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:

That's kind of the point. These ships are designed to murder DDs and plenes, but not much else.

:SerB:

Don't USN cruisers already strongly fulfill this role, while providing more flexibility?

I mean, DDs already have an onslaught of pressure on them from radar and CVs.  Do we really need to pummel them more?

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I suppose you are right. At the same time, however, these ships have extremely weak armor ( even less than Smolensk! ) and a very exposed citadel profile that keeps them from adequately pushing in, forcing them to adopt the position of a second line support ship outside of the range of their Radar, but still in effective range to cover for their allied DDs with their Defensive AA fire consumable

:SerB:

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Okay... there's a lot to like here but also some odd choices in my opinion. I'm not going to patronize you with a tier by tier breakdown of everything I find wrong with this because, honestly there are some genuinely good choices here! But I will point out 2 things about your proposal that I hope you only regard as constructive.

1. While individually the ships are interesting, to me they seem like odd choices if you're going for what is essentially: "Pan Euro DDs, but bigger and radar." To me at least this would make more sense if you were going to utilize more of the Spanish CLs, many of which were actually rebuilt to be dedicated AA cruisers given their experiences during the Civil War. Whereas with the Dutch and Greeks and the Austro-Hungarians (Obviously) they would be based more around a standard gun platform type CL. This leads me to...

2. You have fallen into the classic issue all of us theorycrafters make: overtiering. Granted if your basing it off of relative AA firepower, I kind of get where and why you put the ships from tier V and up if you're again, basing the idea on AA strength but they are generally 1 tier too high. 

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Truth be told, I wasn't really basing it off of AA. The De Zeven doesn't have the firepower of something like the Minotaur at Tier 10, which is why I made a design to fit in at Tier 10. Also, the Tier 9 and 10 don't have torpedoes ( well, they do, but they're crap), they have pretty bad AP shells, the ballistics are worse than that of the RN CLs, and they are even squishier. That's why I gave them that toolkit. I appreciate the criticism, and while I do see your point about the overtiering based on AA, I cannot really see it based upon the gunnery and durability of these ships.

But thank you for the criticisms, @Trophy_Wench

:SerB:

Edited by Shrayes_Bhagavatula

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20 hours ago, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:

Baeleras

Just a typo: is BALEARES

 

20 hours ago, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:

Georgios Averof

SO MUCH YES!

 

20 hours ago, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:
  • VIII Tre Konor  ( Tre Konor class )
  • IX De Zeven (De Zeven Class )

I think this two are punching way over his weight. I think they may be too soft, and they havn't got enought fire power to compensate that.

May I advice you to check the Spanish designs aroung the end of their civil war? They were crazy impractical for their time, yet they serve us well for our game.
There was an Ansaldo project with 12 * 152mm guns.  And also there was the mighty project 138. With 3 possible guns configurations.

Rest of the line seems pretty fine
.  

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Thank you for your feedback @Talleyrand. I will fix the typo as soon as possible, and I'll also take a look at the Spanish designs.

Do you know the name of the Spanish Projects?

:SerB:

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43 minutes ago, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:

Thank you for your feedback @Talleyrand. I will fix the typo as soon as possible, and I'll also take a look at the Spanish designs.

Do you know the name of the Spanish Projects?

:SerB:

138 is the heavy cruiser proyect. Dont remenber the rest, but I will seek it later.

By the way do you read spanish?

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I think generally these are a little over-tiered, Cervera is an Emerald hull at heart, Baleares is a Devonshire only worse (and as a historic premium should really lack the torpedoes she never carried).

De Zeven Provincien is a really, really small ship to be anywhere near T9 and doesn't compare at all well to the weak, but far more capable Seattle/Neptune types.

 

The design of the HE, while having impressively good penetration will I think struggle in a lot of situations. The fire chance is low by design, but almost uselessly so at high tiers while if you're running into either lots of 50mm plating or more you're completely useless. At low tiers 42mm plating may not even be particularly useful as battleships have 19mm plating (so all 152's pen it) while the fire chance is bad, and damage is bad and there's still lots of distributed armor.

The HE damage being so low seriously limits effectiveness against destroyers, the T6 for instance has just 81,000 HE DPM, while Farragut has 135,000 and Budyonny has 148,000.

The whole design is propped up by the repair, but the British for instance get more DPM, repair and smoke. The repair is a bit less useful against destroyers too. I don't think the radar should be introduced below T7/T8 at the very lowest, that's been a pretty solid rule to date.

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15 minutes ago, Talleyrand said:

138 is the heavy cruiser proyect. Dont remenber the rest, but I will seek it later.

By the way do you read spanish?

I can read some Spanish. But I'll put it through translate if I have to.

:SerB:

 

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15 minutes ago, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:

I can read some Spanish. But I'll put it through translate if I have to.

:SerB:

 

Project 1920        
 Project 155   

Project 138a b and c   

Project 115    

 Project 148

At least I found those projects. I write about the 138 in Spanish a few months ago.

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I quite like the idea of a Spanish Graf Speed. That being said, I intended for this to exclusively be a CL line. I'll consider adding this to my proposal as a Premium similar to Monaghan or Harekaze in that it can change it's hulls out between all three designs and allowing for radical differences in gameplay

:SerB:

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