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Florendo19

Skane, feels good (finally)

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Normally I don't particularly like tier 7 DDs as they have to compete with tier 8 and 9s with better concealment and modules, but Skane feels surprisingly good. She has great AA for tier and class plus that heal and her torps keep her in the fight against even up tier DDs. This all feels so much better after the previous two DDs in the Swedish/EU line which are kinda meh with normal poor DD AA and decent guns but no smoke. Skane is what we were promised for this line with good AA for a DD, long range torps,  fast firing guns, and enough HP to actually make the repair party truly useful. She makes me look forward for the rest of the line, I only wish the tier 5 and 6 were more like Skane.

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The tier 6 really isn't all that bad, but I completely agree that there's a pretty big upgrade in capability once you reach tier 7 with the Skåne.   Much faster firing guns.   The AA starts to get quite effective.  And so on.

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43 minutes ago, Florendo19 said:

Normally I don't particularly like tier 7 DDs as they have to compete with tier 8 and 9s with better concealment and modules, but Skane feels surprisingly good. She has great AA for tier and class plus that heal and her torps keep her in the fight against even up tier DDs. This all feels so much better after the previous two DDs in the Swedish/EU line which are kinda meh with normal poor DD AA and decent guns but no smoke. Skane is what we were promised for this line with good AA for a DD, long range torps,  fast firing guns, and enough HP to actually make the repair party truly useful. She makes me look forward for the rest of the line, I only wish the tier 5 and 6 were more like Skane.

Oh boy.........  67 games later for a perma-camo tells me that the Skane is..............at best, Meh; and seriously, has no place in any order of battle I can envision.....  The Skane's torpedoes are terrible........  Six direct hits on a un damaged BB and it sails away and then destroys you.....time after time after time.

Please, what place do any of the T5-7 European DD's hold because of some "great tactical value?"   Some DD's can take two torpedo hits and sail away.....  Spotting?  Guns???  All that grinding for an average ship that will sit in port till a future event asks for a European vessel............    Sorry, their value is that they were free........

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6 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

Oh boy.........  67 games later for a perma-camo tells me that the Skane is..............at best, Meh; and seriously, has no place in any order of battle I can envision.....  The Skane's torpedoes are terrible........  Six direct hits on a un damaged BB and it sails away and then destroys you.....time after time after time.

Please, what place do any of the T5-7 European DD's hold because of some "great tactical value?"   Some DD's can take two torpedo hits and sail away.....  Spotting?  Guns???  All that grinding for an average ship that will sit in port till a future event asks for a European vessel............    Sorry, their value is that they were free........

Asym, they're solid hybrids and anti-DD botes.  Does it stink that their torp damage is low?  Sure.  But they seem (I could be wrong on this) to have a better than average chance to induce flooding on torp hits.  And with their fast reloads, if you can get additional flooding hits, you can generate a pretty fair amount of flood damage.  And if you can get a fire or 2 going, well, it all adds up nicely.

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14 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Asym, they're solid hybrids and anti-DD botes.  Does it stink that their torp damage is low?  Sure.  But they seem (I could be wrong on this) to have a better than average chance to induce flooding on torp hits.  And with their fast reloads, if you can get additional flooding hits, you can generate a pretty fair amount of flood damage.  And if you can get a fire or 2 going, well, it all adds up nicely.

Are we playing the same ship?  Flooding???  After dozens and dozens of five and six torpedoes into a BB's/CA's on every map (except Ocean), not one ship flooded out.  Takes two hits to kill the stronger DD's.  It's guns are hopelessly out classed at +1/2.....  Fires occasionally....

A lot of games in the Skane.  And no, she's a plain Jane DD's with reasonable AA and marshmallow torps and no smoke.   Honestly, I played for the free ships and camo.........with no thought of ever using them ever again (outside of an event that requires European ships.)  Since I finished, either of my Tier 7 IJN DD's eat their Lunch everytime I see one !!! 

Look it's late and I appreciate the reply and if you like them, that's cool........  Solid hybrids, I just can't see.........   Be well and see you out there !

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1 minute ago, Asym_KS said:

Are we playing the same ship?  Flooding???  After dozens and dozens of five and six torpedoes into a BB's/CA's on every map (except Ocean), not one ship flooded out.  Takes two hits to kill the stronger DD's.  It's guns are hopelessly out classed at +1/2.....  Fires occasionally....

A lot of games in the Skane.  And no, she's a plain Jane DD's with reasonable AA and marshmallow torps and no smoke.   Honestly, I played for the free ships and camo.........with no thought of ever using them ever again (outside of an event that requires European ships.)  Since I finished, either of my Tier 7 IJN DD's eat their Lunch everytime I see one !!! 

Look it's late and I appreciate the reply and if you like them, that's cool........  Solid hybrids, I just can't see.........   Be well and see you out there !

I don't judge flooding by how many ships I can get to flood out.  I care about how much flooding damage I do.  Floods don't usually last long enough to flood out an enemy ship, unless that ship was already on low HP.

Personally, I've done quite well with these DDs, very often ending up top 3 on the team.  Their concealment is respectable.  The high tier ones have excellent AA for DDs.   They have excellent RoF on their guns.  And even with the tier 5 and 6 DDs, you have more guns aiming to the rear than forward, which makes them excellent for kiting away from the enemy.

I've completed the big camo mission an hour or 2 ago.  I still have the tier 8 one to go, though I'm not sure if I'm up for that grind now.  I've played just about nothing but Swedish DDs for the last two nights, though I did have a monster game in my Oland earlier with about 97k damage and 2 kills done.  So, I am sort of looking forward to playing the Oland more.  Maybe even trying to do enough to be able to jump straight to the tier 9 when the next update drops.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Asym_KS said:

at best, Meh; and seriously, has no place in any order of battle I can envision....

You're playing almost exclusively in co-op these days, aren't you?

I've only got the Visby so far, but from my perspective (foot in both camps but with a strong bias to PvE), my current impression is that at least at low-mid tier, they are not ships that suit the co-op meta.

These ships are sort of the opposite to the Italian cruisers. In the Italian meatball cruisers, you are uniquely dependent on alpha damage because you cannot do damage over time (except with torpedoes, which are treacle-slow, and the rare secondary-hit fire).

In the Swedish meatball DD's, your damage potential on capital ships is almost entirely DOT (alternating fires and floods) because your alpha damage on the primary weapon system (torpedoes) is so low. I was discussing this with @Lord_Zath last night on his stream when we were discussing IFHE and fire chance (with particular reference to the Smolensk); co-op is just not the best place to farm huge swaths of fire and flood damage from major combatants over time because neither the game nor the targets last long enough.

That's probably why both @Crucis and @Asym_KS are IMHO both in complete disagreement and also both completely right.

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they don't work in coop due to lack of smoke.   vasteras can work in aegis  operation, but have not tried killer whale since I got skane last night (horrid  day for wins though)      in general,  they work well in random, but they require patient style of play.     No yoloing unless BB is down to less than half hp.     every 56 (or 51 if you have high captain)  sec   send down torps and keep doig it until match end.       love the AA on it and guns are usable   (even with slower turret at t5/6)    

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9 minutes ago, centarina said:

they don't work in coop due to lack of smoke. 

Not just the lack of smoke - the lack of alpha strike as well. French destroyers can work in co-op because you can YOLO and deliver a kill to almost anything they face; not these.

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true enough,  I love using benham in coop for torp missions because  you have both  :D

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6 minutes ago, centarina said:

benham

That grind. Only at the end did I realise it was within my grasp the whole time.

Could've. Should've. Didn't. :Smile_facepalm: One of my biggest regrets in the game.

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

You're playing almost exclusively in co-op these days, aren't you?

I've only got the Visby so far, but from my perspective (foot in both camps but with a strong bias to PvE), my current impression is that at least at low-mid tier, they are not ships that suit the co-op meta.

These ships are sort of the opposite to the Italian cruisers. In the Italian meatball cruisers, you are uniquely dependent on alpha damage because you cannot do damage over time (except with torpedoes, which are treacle-slow, and the rare secondary-hit fire).

In the Swedish meatball DD's, your damage potential on capital ships is almost entirely DOT (alternating fires and floods) because your alpha damage on the primary weapon system (torpedoes) is so low. I was discussing this with @Lord_Zath last night on his stream when we were discussing IFHE and fire chance (with particular reference to the Smolensk); co-op is just not the best place to farm huge swaths of fire and flood damage from major combatants over time because neither the game nor the targets last long enough.

That's probably why both @Crucis and @Asym_KS are IMHO both in complete disagreement and also both completely right.

Just about all we play....  Scenarios when the mood or need motivates us.   I only have 5-6-7 and I've heard the 8-9 are pretty decent.  I'll have to take someone's word for that.  In my experiences so far, well over 180 games in the 5-6-7, these DD's are "average producers of damage" and even with exceptional positioning, the torpedoes aren't powerful enough to make up for the rest of their average damage production from guns....  I've had several good games in all of them......  They "just aren't any fun" in my opinion.   A gimmick of 80 knot torps in the Skane is a neat thing to experience..........except when they have what 7,300K damage per torpedo and it takes two to kill a better DD and all six can't kill some CA's and a great many BB's.   

@Crucis has a different play style than I do and is a better player; so, he can pull more from lessor ships I expect.  I'm just happy they were free and even if the grind was terrible, and it was for an average player, they may come in handy later on when some future event requires EU ships for some directive's tasks.   Many an event has required a ship I don't own.

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one thing about torpedo spam is that it makes  bigger ship turn to avoid , which in turn expose their side to your team for more damage.    with long range and speed, I seem to get unintended targets being hit.           I haven't played much DD lately due to all the CVs and this one isn't so bad.    mucho better than UK CA  lol.  

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I will say the AA on Skane is quite potent, even on bots. I was in T8 Shokaku and sent dive dombers out on a Devonshire. There was a Skane nearby and out of my 9 planes, 7 were shot down and only 2 made it to drop bombs. Caught me by surprise as I didn't expect that level of AA.

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4 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

You're playing almost exclusively in co-op these days, aren't you?

I've only got the Visby so far, but from my perspective (foot in both camps but with a strong bias to PvE), my current impression is that at least at low-mid tier, they are not ships that suit the co-op meta.

These ships are sort of the opposite to the Italian cruisers. In the Italian meatball cruisers, you are uniquely dependent on alpha damage because you cannot do damage over time (except with torpedoes, which are treacle-slow, and the rare secondary-hit fire).

In the Swedish meatball DD's, your damage potential on capital ships is almost entirely DOT (alternating fires and floods) because your alpha damage on the primary weapon system (torpedoes) is so low. I was discussing this with @Lord_Zath last night on his stream when we were discussing IFHE and fire chance (with particular reference to the Smolensk); co-op is just not the best place to farm huge swaths of fire and flood damage from major combatants over time because neither the game nor the targets last long enough.

That's probably why both @Crucis and @Asym_KS are IMHO both in complete disagreement and also both completely right.

Cthulhu, it's possible that coop isn't well suited for some of the Swedish DDs.  You are correct that coop isn't a good place to farm large amounts of fire and flood damage, though I will say that it's doable if you really know what you're doing.  That is, get a fire started ASAP on some enemy BB, then keep up the HE spam on that BB until you get a second fire started.  If you get lucky and can get a fire started on the BB that just used its DCP, good for you.  You'll get to farm some serious fire damage.  Otherwise, you probably won't, but will get to farm some direct HE damage.

Something else worth pointing out that should be fairly obvious is that making suicide torp runs on enemy BBs with Swedish DDs probably won't end well, unless the target BB is already on low health, because of the low torp alpha.  Swedish torps are better suited for spamming multiple volleys at an enemy BB, and hoping to start a perma flood.  It's also worth noting that Swedish torps (like all torps when you think about it) work better on cruisers since cruisers have far less torpedo protection and will take a much higher percentage of any torpedo's damage than would be the case for BBs, since they have stronger anti-torp protection.

Your point about Italian cruisers is a very fair one.  Swedish DDs are highly dependent on DOT damage.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Cthulhu, it's possible that coop isn't well suited for some of the Swedish DDs.  You are correct that coop isn't a good place to farm large amounts of fire and flood damage, though I will say that it's doable if you really know what you're doing.  That is, get a fire started ASAP on some enemy BB, then keep up the HE spam on that BB until you get a second fire started.  If you get lucky and can get a fire started on the BB that just used its DCP, good for you.  You'll get to farm some serious fire damage.  Otherwise, you probably won't, but will get to farm some direct HE damage.

Something else worth pointing out that should be fairly obvious is that making suicide torp runs on enemy BBs with Swedish DDs probably won't end well, unless the target BB is already on low health, because of the low torp alpha.  Swedish torps are better suited for spamming multiple volleys at an enemy BB, and hoping to start a perma flood.  It's also worth noting that Swedish torps (like all torps when you think about it) work better on cruisers since cruisers have far less torpedo protection and will take a much higher percentage of any torpedo's damage than would be the case for BBs, since they have stronger anti-torp protection.

Your point about Italian cruisers is a very fair one.  Swedish DDs are highly dependent on DOT damage.

 

 

Swedish DDs are almost exactly like torpedo planes, but with better flood chances. Low alpha, high opportunity for DoT. If you live till late game, you can be a real monster murdering ships that are already at half health and much more spread out.

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14 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

You're playing almost exclusively in co-op these days, aren't you?

I've only got the Visby so far, but from my perspective (foot in both camps but with a strong bias to PvE), my current impression is that at least at low-mid tier, they are not ships that suit the co-op meta.

These ships are sort of the opposite to the Italian cruisers. In the Italian meatball cruisers, you are uniquely dependent on alpha damage because you cannot do damage over time (except with torpedoes, which are treacle-slow, and the rare secondary-hit fire).

In the Swedish meatball DD's, your damage potential on capital ships is almost entirely DOT (alternating fires and floods) because your alpha damage on the primary weapon system (torpedoes) is so low. I was discussing this with @Lord_Zath last night on his stream when we were discussing IFHE and fire chance (with particular reference to the Smolensk); co-op is just not the best place to farm huge swaths of fire and flood damage from major combatants over time because neither the game nor the targets last long enough.

 That's probably why both @Crucis and @Asym_KS are IMHO both in complete disagreement and also both completely right.

Yeah gotta remember everyone's uses are different!

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17 hours ago, Crucis said:

Swedish torps are better suited for spamming multiple volleys at an enemy BB, and hoping to start a perma flood.

These ships would have been much more powerful in the older meta, where floods were automatically lethal if you were anything  other than very healthy and didn't have DCP or a strong heal immediately available.

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I'm really enjoying these boats. My primary play style with them is to drive in circles spotting and spamming torps. If the right situation presents then open up the guns and start some fires.

would really like to get a 16 pt Captain so I can run SI, SE, TE.

I found the Skane to be the least fun, but a small sample size.

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On 3/31/2020 at 12:27 AM, Asym_KS said:

Oh boy.........  67 games later for a perma-camo tells me that the Skane is..............at best, Meh; and seriously, has no place in any order of battle I can envision.....  The Skane's torpedoes are terrible........  Six direct hits on a un damaged BB and it sails away and then destroys you.....time after time after time.

Please, what place do any of the T5-7 European DD's hold because of some "great tactical value?"   Some DD's can take two torpedo hits and sail away.....  Spotting?  Guns???  All that grinding for an average ship that will sit in port till a future event asks for a European vessel............    Sorry, their value is that they were free........

The Euro DDs are definitely not big on alpha strikes so I find they work best over the course of a full game. With their strength being chip damage I think they encourage more of a defensive style of DD play relying on staying power. They do great in Randoms but like some of the others above probably will do very poorly in Co op where alpha and smoke are worth more than heals and consistent chip damage.

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7 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

These ships would have been much more powerful in the older meta, where floods were automatically lethal if you were anything  other than very healthy and didn't have DCP or a strong heal immediately available.

*IF* the Swedish torps really do have a higher chance of starting floods, I'd agree with you 100% Cthulhu. 

Personally, I think that the Devs  went overboard when they "fixed" flooding.  I like the idea of having a couple of flooding zones.  I really like that being affected by a flood slows the ship considerably.  But it seems as though they seriously nerfed potential flooding damage.  The problem I have with the flooding damage nerf is that (prior to the Swedish DDs) torp reloads are generally so high and the chances of landing torp hits is so low that even starting a flood is very low, which to me says that potential flooding damage needs to be rather high as a balancing offset.

 

 

5 hours ago, Florendo19 said:

The Euro DDs are definitely not big on alpha strikes so I find they work best over the course of a full game. With their strength being chip damage I think they encourage more of a defensive style of DD play relying on staying power. They do great in Randoms but like some of the others above probably will do very poorly in Co op where alpha and smoke are worth more than heals and consistent chip damage.

I generally agree with this statement.  That said, you can do pretty well in coop in other ways, particularly if you have other goals beyond massive damage.  Coop is good for Swedish DDs if you're trying to start fires, because the bots don't have manual secondaries and you can avoid becoming a primary target if you brawl enemy ships in tandem with other brawling friendlies.  You have to be super careful with your torps, but they can be used.

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Oh man... I'm LOVING this boat....  85 knot torps with a 9.4km range.  Yeah, they don't do much damage, but my torp hit % is literally 3 times my other dd's.  You can't MISS with these things.  And when you are top tier against those slow American BBs... hahahahahhaa.  6 torps into them every 55 seconds sinks them.

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