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HBZK100

Why is Nobody Playing Shokaku?

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I don't know if it's me, but seems at tier 8, everybody is either playing the Lexington or a premium CV or the Tier 8 british CVs.

I've been playing my Lexington consistently for the past week, and i cannot remember a game where i went against a shokaku.

Is she a good CV? I plan on getting her next, as before the CV rework i had Hiryu fully upgraded, so it'll be easy for me to get shokaku.

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It's more along the line that nobody is grinding IJN CVs.  The rework wasn't kind to them (except for of course the initial OP issue).

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Shokaku is a very good CV. I place it on par with the Lexington, exceeding it in torpedo speed and ability to citadel/devastating strike some cruisers with AP dive bombs.

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1 hour ago, HBZK100 said:

I don't know if it's me, but seems at tier 8, everybody is either playing the Lexington or a premium CV or the Tier 8 british CVs.

I've been playing my Lexington consistently for the past week, and i cannot remember a game where i went against a shokaku.

Is she a good CV? I plan on getting her next, as before the CV rework i had Hiryu fully upgraded, so it'll be easy for me to get shokaku.

The IJN tech tree takes very specific skills - and they kinda screwed up Hak with the 6x2 TB's instead of keeping 3x4 like Kaga but nerfing the damage - because they buffed the Hak's torp damage from RTS for some inane, unfathomable reason. 

She fires fewer rockets covering less area in doing so - they pack more punch but require aim to be more on point to be effective.

She doesn't get the same comfort of 3 torpedoes or more others might enjoy, just 2.

Her AP bombs require one to actually learn how to properly use and aim with DB's for the most effect (aka, citadel's and lots of them) - reasons I've been insistent from day 1 other than historical accuracy that rockets be removed from tier 4 - to force player to actually learn to use the main ordnance properly and not overly rely on easy mode rockets to try and accomplish things.

Her planes are kinda fragile so you REALLY need to be up on your A game for dodging flak, especially the tier 9/10 monsters like Neptune and Kremlin. USN and UK are a tad more forgiving. 

They did try to give IJN an identity - keep it the capital ship hunter/killer it was in RTS. The problem is they completely botched the deign. Had they actually stayed historical 'attack planes' would have bombs, not rockets that could offer a little more effectiveness vs DD's, 3-4 TB's would be the norm per pass and dive bomber would have what ingame would amount to a high pen/low fire HE bomb or a low pen with fire chance AP bomb for their SAP bombs. With AP an option as level bombers that likely overpen CL but pen if they hit CA or heavier. This would allow a little more utility vs DD's (a larger threat now with mobility being near non-existent), easier to use AP for anti-BB/CA or more consistent damage against them with SAP bombs - but the core focus being really it's TB groups. 

It takes a bit more skill to play IJN well - and most players choose the path of least resistance. Played well they can be amazingly devastating - opening minutes of a match I deleted a Smolensk with several citadel hits like it was nothing and a red player in all chat said "Well I'm a CV player now if it can kill one like that". 

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23 minutes ago, Warped_1 said:

It's more along the line that nobody is grinding IJN CVs.  The rework wasn't kind to them (except for of course the initial OP issue).

Not really sure what this means. The IJN are very powerful. They just aren't the EZ mode in terms of player friendliness. 

 

49 minutes ago, HBZK100 said:

I don't know if it's me, but seems at tier 8, everybody is either playing the Lexington or a premium CV or the Tier 8 british CVs.

I've been playing my Lexington consistently for the past week, and i cannot remember a game where i went against a shokaku.

Is she a good CV? I plan on getting her next, as before the CV rework i had Hiryu fully upgraded, so it'll be easy for me to get shokaku.

Shokaku is slightly behind Lexington for title of "best carrier at tier 8." The Shokaku can "Out kill" the Lexington, but the Lexington can "out damage" the Shokaku. Does that make sense? Shokaku has more "alpha" strike than Lexington does, but Lexington can produce a lot of continuous damage. 

 

However the Shokaku isn't easy to play well unlike the Lexington. The Shokaku must use the right tool for the right job while the Lexington can use any of its options for any ship, although it might not be optimal. This is just part of why its easier to play, coupled with high amounts of hp per plane compared to Shokaku. 

 

In short, Shokaku is high risk, high reward, where Lexington is low risk, with medium reward. 

 

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2 hours ago, HBZK100 said:

I don't know if it's me, but seems at tier 8, everybody is either playing the Lexington or a premium CV or the Tier 8 british CVs.

I've been playing my Lexington consistently for the past week, and i cannot remember a game where i went against a shokaku.

Is she a good CV? I plan on getting her next, as before the CV rework i had Hiryu fully upgraded, so it'll be easy for me to get shokaku.

One has to grind through (or use Free-XP to bypass) the Hosho and the Ryujo to get to Shokaku, because she's a tech-tree ship.
I've done that.
But not everyone else has.

For those who want to get to Tier-8 CV play without all the grind, the Premium CV's are available.

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I’ve played IJN CVs since Alpha but her planes are just too flimsy vs AA right now. The Shokaku can do monster damage but can also chew thru planes and be limiting.

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On 3/30/2020 at 4:32 PM, Wolfswetpaws said:

One has to grind through (or use Free-XP to bypass) the Hosho and the Ryujo to get to Shokaku, because she's a tech-tree ship.
I've done that.
But not everyone else has.

For those who want to get to Tier-8 CV play without all the grind, the Premium CV's are available.

Here in lies the problem.  Too many people play T4 and enjoy free reign on ships with little to no AA.  They bump up to T6 and in their first match get up tiered to T8 subsiquently getting wrecked by T8 AA because they have no concept of which ships have strong AA, which ships have weak AA, how to avoid groups of ships ETC.  They assume its because they are up tiered so they either free xp past T6 or go buy a premium which they play just as poorly as the T6 they were in.  This leaves teams wit one potato T8 cv and one competent one on the other side.

This issue is not unique to CV entirely however the every other tier set up exacerbates the issue IMO.  If WG is going to keep selling T8, 9 and 10 premiums they either need to implement some sort of requirement to purchase it (probably never happen because it limits sales) or provided some sort of skill based MM for those ships at least.   

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I have to agree with the general assessment of Shokaku compared to Lexington. It's a harder ship to play well. When trying to learn CVs with the rework I played a bunch of Ryujo at first and struggled, so I dropped back down to Tier 4 to get better, and played all 3 lines. I ended up progressing up the US line all the way to Midway, and got decent with them. I wont say I'm great, especially with Midway, I suck with that thing. Anyway I had Shokaku from right before the rework. I bought it from Hiryu to have it when the rework came out, and I was terrible with it, so I shelved it for a long time. But after spending more time with Ryujo, and getting practice with CVs in general, I came back to it a few days ago, and now I think it's an amazing ship. I dont know if its better than Lex, but I got my first 2 krakens in CVs in the past 2 days with Shokaku. I feel like my damage lately has been higher as well, but my stats are still so terrible from my earlier days in the rework that I cant say for sure. Just got Hak tonight and I'm excited, but now I need a new captain for my Shokaku. But anyway, yes it seems to me that the IJN CV tree is a higher skill cap tree compared to the other CV lines. The rockets are effective if aimed properly, but your lead up has to be better, you cant make adjustments easily. The torps are better on an individual basis, but you only ever drop 2 at a time, unless its Kaga, so your aim has to be better at higher tiers than the other lines. The bombs are great when you score citadels, but you don't get fires from them. And the planes are fragile so you have to be able to manage your numbers well and being able to avoid damage helps a lot. I still make mistakes there but I'm usually pretty good at keeping decent amount of reserves through a game. 

 

Question for the Hakuryu players. For the last module slot, do you recommend speed increase or HP increase? I went with the speed increase, but I'm not sure that was the right choice. Looking for some feedback on this one.

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    I took the hp increase because I almost always boost in when attacking

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With the release of euro dds, haven't seen that many cv's in general tbh. Even I ditched them atm

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Regarding Lexington, I always thought it was just general playerbase's USN bias. Even before the rework, a quick look at stats shows there were twice as many battles played with USN CVs than IJN, despite the fact that a Shokaku can easily thrash a Lexington because of the fighter loadout mismatch. So setting fires with HE might be easier to do than aiming APs at citadels, I think most people play USN CVs for the sake of playing USN CVs.

It is nice to see, though, that there's now a more legitimate reason to choose one or the other from a gameplay perspective.

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British CVs are a bit harder to use then both U.S and IJN CVs :Smile_bajan2: Its mostly because they feel very slow clunky for some reason Dive bombers take time to get used too because you have attack from the front or back so not waste bombs on the drop so they all land on target :Smile_popcorn:

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On 3/30/2020 at 5:08 PM, HBZK100 said:

I don't know if it's me, but seems at tier 8, everybody is either playing the Lexington or a premium CV or the Tier 8 british CVs.

I've been playing my Lexington consistently for the past week, and i cannot remember a game where i went against a shokaku.

Is she a good CV? I plan on getting her next, as before the CV rework i had Hiryu fully upgraded, so it'll be easy for me to get shokaku.

Nothing really wrong with Shokaku, it's just that there's other options. For many players that still have CV's to grind, they're probably only lacking the Royal Navy. Many players ground the IJN and USN CV's pre-rework. There's also the glut of premium CV's at tier 8, Kaga earns better because she's a premium, doesn't uptier quite as well as Shokaku (but there's not a great deal of difference uptiering between the two ) and Kaga is an absolute monster when she can beat on lower tier battleships.

If you've driven the Ryujo post rework, Shokaku's very similar, just bigger, faster, more planes, faster planes, ect...

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AP bombs and the twofer torpedoes make her more difficult to use.  AP bombs require aim to use effectively ((Not to mention for RNG to be on your side,  particularly with the changes Wargaming made to bombs to make them less effective against DD's)) and the torpedo bombers require more passes to do as much damage as her counterparts do in fewer passes,  sans...Implacable,  I am wanting to say.  

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