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Advice on which steel ship to choose?

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First off, I know several are leaving the armory in the next update, and coming back as coal in a later upate. Which means I know not to get those.

 

I currently have 19,911 steel.

I consider myself a BB main for the most part, but I'm ok w/ playing any ship if it's fun.

I originally thought bourgogne, but then in recent weeks found myself playing my benham A LOT, so made me wonder about the somers. The stalingrad isn't really on my radar, but not opposed to it based on the feedback I get. I can currently get somers if I use the coupon, but the other 2 I would have to get 2k-ish more steel w/ coupon to get them. I figure I don't want to choose wrong since it's taken me SO LONG to get this much steel.

 

Any insights to this would be GREATLY appreciated! Thank you in advance!

 

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None - wait for Yashima 

If that isn't any good … wait for subs :)

Edited by Commander_367

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I only have one steel ship, Balansgrad. So while I can’t really compare I can see she’s an absolute beast and I don’t regret my choice of steel ship

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If I was stuck playing one ship for all eternity, I would pick Bourgogne. She has a lotta guns which is always nice, and the speed to get on flanks. You catch a broadside BB with that reload booster available. Your gonna deal some HEAVY damage. She wont hard carry a team, but she is such a fun ship with so many build options. 

 

Shikishima/Yashima (right now) is really overrated. The 510s are no better than the 460s on Yamato. In fact you could argue they are worse considering how much they will overpenetrate cruisers. That plus having less guns to begin with actually is a totally useless and harmful gimmick to have. Of course she is still WiP and subject to change

 

The other two I know are solid buys, but I'm more of a BB person too. If you do CBs your clan will thank you for pulling a Stalingrad or Somers. All I know is Bourgogne is a super fun ship with a lot of different build choices

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I have; Bourgogne, Stalingrad, and Black, "I don't recommend Black." Being a BB main myself, I would have to say Bourgogne is my favorite, but by a pretty small margin. If you get well acquainted with her strengths and play to them, you can have some monster games. Just had this one yesterday.537903970_WorldOfWarships642020-03-2918-02-18-142.thumb.jpg.ed31c8c860d2da733c13364c4b3cd9c6.jpg

On the other hand though, if you want a CA that a BB player can easily get used to, then Stalingrad is a great choice. I've only had her for about 2 months now, but she's already my favorite t10 CA because she's very "BBesk," which made her easy for me to learn. As long as you play her to her strengths, she can totally dominate a battle. As far as Yashima goes, I'm saving for her now, but Im in no huge hurry. Just a Yamato with bigger guns. Those guns also don't cross any meaningful over match thresholds, which to me makes them sort of pointless. Also add in the fact you have a near 35 second reload on 6 guns, and also still have all of Yamato's weaknesses. I have 2 clan mates who own Somers and they describe her as "good, but maybe not as good as you would expect a steel ship to be."  Basically, she has low hp for her tier, and despite have 8 guns, they reload slower than gearing's 6 guns and they aren't dual purpose either. She basically sacrifices in multiple areas to get 2 whole extra torps than the gearing. Doesn't seem worth it to me. 

Just had this Stalingrad game today, damage isn't quite as impressive, but still a good game overall. Like I said, she's my favorite t10 CA.1258078883_WorldOfWarships642020-03-3021-44-15-921.thumb.jpg.84555821859dc750f7fcb508bed5725d.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by admiralsexybeast

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12 hours ago, Commander_367 said:

None - wait for Yashima 

If that isn't any good … wait for subs :)

it looks awful, and its gonna be 93893893893893 steel, hard pass.

12 hours ago, ditka_Fatdog said:

I only have one steel ship, Balansgrad. So while I can’t really compare I can see she’s an absolute beast and I don’t regret my choice of steel ship

good to know. i see it randomly, and was unsure. i havent asked anybody who had it to know.

12 hours ago, _BBaby said:

If I was stuck playing one ship for all eternity, I would pick Bourgogne. She has a lotta guns which is always nice, and the speed to get on flanks. You catch a broadside BB with that reload booster available. Your gonna deal some HEAVY damage. She wont hard carry a team, but she is such a fun ship with so many build options. 

 

Shikishima/Yashima (right now) is really overrated. The 510s are no better than the 460s on Yamato. In fact you could argue they are worse considering how much they will overpenetrate cruisers. That plus having less guns to begin with actually is a totally useless and harmful gimmick to have. Of course she is still WiP and subject to change

 

The other two I know are solid buys, but I'm more of a BB person too. If you do CBs your clan will thank you for pulling a Stalingrad or Somers. All I know is Bourgogne is a super fun ship with a lot of different build choices

yeah we do CB's, but i'm wondering if somers is useful outside of competitive.

8 hours ago, admiralsexybeast said:

I have; Bourgogne, Stalingrad, and Black, "I don't recommend Black." Being a BB main myself, I would have to say Bourgogne is my favorite, but by a pretty small margin. If you get well acquainted with her strengths and play to them, you can have some monster games. Just had this one yesterday.537903970_WorldOfWarships642020-03-2918-02-18-142.thumb.jpg.ed31c8c860d2da733c13364c4b3cd9c6.jpg

On the other hand though, if you want a CA that a BB player can easily get used to, then Stalingrad is a great choice. I've only had her for about 2 months now, but she's already my favorite t10 CA because she's very "BBesk," which made her easy for me to learn. As long as you play her to her strengths, she can totally dominate a battle. As far as Yashima goes, I'm saving for her now, but Im in no huge hurry. Just a Yamato with bigger guns. Those guns also don't cross any meaningful over match thresholds, which to me makes them sort of pointless. Also add in the fact you have a near 35 second reload on 6 guns, and also still have all of Yamato's weaknesses. I have 2 clan mates who own Somers and they describe her as "good, but maybe not as good as you would expect a steel ship to be."  Basically, she has low hp for her tier, and despite have 8 guns, they reload slower than gearing's 6 guns and they aren't dual purpose either. She basically sacrifices in multiple areas to get 2 whole extra torps than the gearing. Doesn't seem worth it to me. 

Just had this Stalingrad game today, damage isn't quite as impressive, but still a good game overall. Like I said, she's my favorite t10 CA.1258078883_WorldOfWarships642020-03-3021-44-15-921.thumb.jpg.84555821859dc750f7fcb508bed5725d.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

thank you for all the insight/info! i guess i'll scratch somers off my list, and focus on either bourgonne, or the stalingrad. i dont currently have enough steel even w/ a coupon for either, so I guess i'll wait some more.

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12 hours ago, teamjusta said:

First off, I know several are leaving the armory in the next update, and coming back as coal in a later upate. Which means I know not to get those.

 

I currently have 19,911 steel.

I consider myself a BB main for the most part, but I'm ok w/ playing any ship if it's fun.

I originally thought bourgogne, but then in recent weeks found myself playing my benham A LOT, so made me wonder about the somers. The stalingrad isn't really on my radar, but not opposed to it based on the feedback I get. I can currently get somers if I use the coupon, but the other 2 I would have to get 2k-ish more steel w/ coupon to get them. I figure I don't want to choose wrong since it's taken me SO LONG to get this much steel.

 

Any insights to this would be GREATLY appreciated! Thank you in advance!

 

How about X Bourgogne ?:cap_cool:I have IX Jean Bart  image.png.aa384dcfb42b307126850093a654ac8e.pngand she's awesome

image.png.72a9e038e854f5f598fca034a1a8a518.png

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Stalingrad is good for competitive but it's boring.

 

Bourgogne is fun to play, strong but also requires a higher skill floor (especially now that there's not as many 25mm section as before).

 

I picked Bourgogne and don't regret her. 

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11 hours ago, AlcatrazNC said:

Stalingrad is good for competitive but it's boring.

 

Bourgogne is fun to play, strong but also requires a higher skill floor (especially now that there's not as many 25mm section as before).

 

I picked Bourgogne and don't regret her. 

why boring to you? do you find it ok for randoms? or just competitive?

i'm not very good w/ the jb, so thats why im hesitant w/ the bourgogne. it seems tho so far that or the stalingrad are the better options.

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On 3/30/2020 at 2:07 PM, teamjusta said:

First off, I know several are leaving the armory in the next update, and coming back as coal in a later upate. Which means I know not to get those.

 

I currently have 19,911 steel.

I consider myself a BB main for the most part, but I'm ok w/ playing any ship if it's fun.

I originally thought bourgogne, but then in recent weeks found myself playing my benham A LOT, so made me wonder about the somers. The stalingrad isn't really on my radar, but not opposed to it based on the feedback I get. I can currently get somers if I use the coupon, but the other 2 I would have to get 2k-ish more steel w/ coupon to get them. I figure I don't want to choose wrong since it's taken me SO LONG to get this much steel.

 

Any insights to this would be GREATLY appreciated! Thank you in advance!

 

You could always make the decision objectively. Which ship is going to give you the MOST bang for your buck. Well to find that information simply refer to the data and contextual evidence.

Which of the steel ships performs the highest in the metrics which are most directly related to the win conditions of the primary game mode.

1.) First team teach to reach 1,000 points.
2.) First team to reduce enemy ships to zero (kill all enemy ships)
3.) Team with highest points when match timer runs out

Killing enemy ships gives far more points than objective capture, in fact most matches are decided primarily by points gained by this method. Killing enemy ships also reduces their team's points instantly as well. We do know that you cannot achieve a kill in this game without damage. That is what we call a "causal relationship". Then obviously this also relates to survival. If you survive, then the enemy cannot satisfy the (#2) win condition, and that is also less points they can get from your death to attribute to the (#1 + #3) win conditions. One can also surmise that the win probability of teams that achieve "first blood" is higher than average. This means that the most impactful performance a ship can enact relate to being able to do damage, achieve kills, and survive the match.

Of all of the Steel ships which is the best performer for the related metrics?  Bourgogne, by a large margin. Somers is dead last and the gap is very large.

What if we take a deeper dive into the data science? These are all Steel ships, and they all suffer from sample bias. The majority of owners for each of these ships are unicum or better. However, when you account for the sample bias you get the following observations:
A.) Stalingrad performs lower than 1-2 other Tier 10 Cruisers, and below that of ALL tier 10 BBs.
B.) The Bourgogne is tied with Kremlin as the highest performing BB, and highest performing ship in the entire game.
C.) Of the top 50 owners of both the Stalingrad and Bourgogne, the majority of these owners have tier 10 BBs as their top 3 performing ships. Additionally, a MUCH larger percentage of these owners have Bourgogne in their top 3 compared to Stalingrad.
D.) The Somers performs weaker than both the Stalingrad and Bourgogne and actually performs weaker than all Tier 10 BBs, and all tier 10 Cruisers except for one. It also performs weaker than 2 Tier 10 DDs.

Edited by Varknyn12
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2 hours ago, Varknyn12 said:

You could always make the decision objectively. Which ship is going to give you the MOST bang for your buck. Well to find that information simply refer to the data and contextual evidence.

Which of the steel ships performs the highest in the metrics which are most directly related to the win conditions of the primary game mode.

1.) First team teach to reach 1,000 points.
2.) First team to reduce enemy ships to zero (kill all enemy ships)
3.) Team with highest points when match timer runs out

Killing enemy ships gives far more points than objective capture, in fact most matches are decided primarily by points gained by this method. Killing enemy ships also reduces their team's points instantly as well. We do know that you cannot achieve a kill in this game without damage. That is what we call a "causal relationship". Then obviously this also relates to survival. If you survive, then the enemy cannot satisfy the (#2) win condition, and that is also less points they can get from your death to attribute to the (#1 + #3) win conditions. One can also surmise that the win probability of teams that achieve "first blood" is higher than average. This means that the most impactful performance a ship can enact relate to being able to do damage, achieve kills, and survive the match.

Of all of the Steel ships which is the best performer for the related metrics?  Bourgogne, by a large margin. Somers is dead last and the gap is very large.

What if we take a deeper dive into the data science? These are all Steel ships, and they all suffer from sample bias. The majority of owners for each of these ships are unicum or better. However, when you account for the sample bias you get the following observations:
A.) Stalingrad performs lower than 1-2 other Tier 10 Cruisers, and below that of ALL tier 10 BBs.
B.) The Bourgogne is tied with Kremlin as the highest performing BB, and highest performing ship in the entire game.
C.) Of the top 50 owners of both the Stalingrad and Bourgogne, the majority of these owners have tier 10 BBs as their top 3 performing ships. Additionally, a MUCH larger percentage of these owners have Bourgogne in their top 3 compared to Stalingrad.
D.) The Somers performs weaker than both the Stalingrad and Bourgogne and actually performs weaker than all Tier 10 BBs, and all tier 10 Cruisers except for one. It also performs weaker than 2 Tier 10 DDs.

wow thats A LOT of info! thank you for taking the time to detail it all so much! may i ask where you find this info to detail it so well? i guess it seems the bourg is what i'll get once i get the rest of the steel needed. again thank you for the info!

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I have about 27K steel and I will be getting the Stalingrad. It seems like the best overall option at the moment.

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6 minutes ago, teamjusta said:

wow thats A LOT of info! thank you for taking the time to detail it all so much! may i ask where you find this info to detail it so well? i guess it seems the bourg is what i'll get once i get the rest of the steel needed. again thank you for the info!

np. Glad I could help.

Here are the win conditions: https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Game_Modes

Here is the performance data (2 month sample): http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20200328/na_2month/average_ship_u.html

Performance data (by quarters): http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/shipstats/index.html

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Battleship Stalingrad.

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1 hour ago, paradat said:

Battleship Stalingrad.

:Smile_great:Not available anymore,If you wanna play wannabe BB's get Alaska

Edited by shadowsrmine

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5 hours ago, teamjusta said:

why boring to you? do you find it ok for randoms? or just competitive?

i'm not very good w/ the jb, so thats why im hesitant w/ the bourgogne. it seems tho so far that or the stalingrad are the better options.

The thing with Bourgogne is you always need to remember that she is "fragile" compared to other BBs at her tier. That's not to say you can't make aggressive plays with her because I do it all the time. You just have to be good at looking at the situation unfolding around you and be able to know when it is or isn't favorable to make an aggressive move. She's actually a great brawler, but she can't do it for very long because she simply doesn't have the HP to take a prolonged beating. Generally, you'll want to stay out at longer ranges in the beginning and then start pushing up when conditions favor it. A lot of people like to use the speed boosts early to get somewhere fast. I prefer to save them to get out of trouble or to get distance between myself and an enemy faster when I need to break off. You also need to be good at knowing what ammo type you should be using. TBH, you'll use your HE a decent amount to do damage just because your AP wont penetrate a number of things that other BBs would. Catch anything broadside though, that AP really hurts, especially if you have a reload boost ready to go! She's really not that hard to play, at least IMO. Also, I really enjoy Stalingrad in either ranked or randoms. I got enough steel for her when I hit rank 4 last season and then used her almost exclusively to rank out, achieving a 60% win rate if I remember correctly. This is strictly just me, but I don't like using her in CBs. Only tried it like 3 times but it was rough going for me. It seems like every time a team loads a Stalingrad into a CB, the enemy teams #1 goal is to kill it, which means you get focused down hardcore if your clanmates don't support you or you don't position well.

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4 hours ago, shadowsrmine said:

:Smile_great:Not available anymore,If you wanna play wannabe BB's get Alaska

Looks like she is still there for steel.

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2 hours ago, admiralsexybeast said:

The thing with Bourgogne is you always need to remember that she is "fragile" compared to other BBs at her tier. That's not to say you can't make aggressive plays with her because I do it all the time. You just have to be good at looking at the situation unfolding around you and be able to know when it is or isn't favorable to make an aggressive move. She's actually a great brawler, but she can't do it for very long because she simply doesn't have the HP to take a prolonged beating. Generally, you'll want to stay out at longer ranges in the beginning and then start pushing up when conditions favor it. A lot of people like to use the speed boosts early to get somewhere fast. I prefer to save them to get out of trouble or to get distance between myself and an enemy faster when I need to break off. You also need to be good at knowing what ammo type you should be using. TBH, you'll use your HE a decent amount to do damage just because your AP wont penetrate a number of things that other BBs would. Catch anything broadside though, that AP really hurts, especially if you have a reload boost ready to go! She's really not that hard to play, at least IMO. Also, I really enjoy Stalingrad in either ranked or randoms. I got enough steel for her when I hit rank 4 last season and then used her almost exclusively to rank out, achieving a 60% win rate if I remember correctly. This is strictly just me, but I don't like using her in CBs. Only tried it like 3 times but it was rough going for me. It seems like every time a team loads a Stalingrad into a CB, the enemy teams #1 goal is to kill it, which means you get focused down hardcore if your clanmates don't support you or you don't position well.

The Bourg is still the most tanky of the Steel Tier 10s.

Not only in citadel protection, but also citadel placement.  Combine those two above with magically having better concealment than multiple Cruisers (i.e. WG BB bias), she can stay mobile and dodge incoming fire without having to worry so much about enemies hitting her citadel when performing a turn. The Stalingrad does not have this benefit, and hell.. even a DM can sit nose in and laugh at a Stalingrad.

The data also supports this claim.
2 Month sample

A.) Stalingrad
Survival Rate: 41.16%
Potential Damage: 1.46mil

B.) Bourgogne
Survival Rate: 49.07%
Potential Damage: 1.57mil

Cited: http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20200328/na_2month/average_ship.html

Edited by Varknyn12
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18 hours ago, Varknyn12 said:

np. Glad I could help.

Here are the win conditions: https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Game_Modes

Here is the performance data (2 month sample): http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20200328/na_2month/average_ship_u.html

Performance data (by quarters): http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/shipstats/index.html

again, thank you for the info! greatly appreciated!

18 hours ago, paradat said:

Battleship Stalingrad.

that might be next on my list in 93893893839 years when i get enough steel again.

15 hours ago, admiralsexybeast said:

The thing with Bourgogne is you always need to remember that she is "fragile" compared to other BBs at her tier. That's not to say you can't make aggressive plays with her because I do it all the time. You just have to be good at looking at the situation unfolding around you and be able to know when it is or isn't favorable to make an aggressive move. She's actually a great brawler, but she can't do it for very long because she simply doesn't have the HP to take a prolonged beating. Generally, you'll want to stay out at longer ranges in the beginning and then start pushing up when conditions favor it. A lot of people like to use the speed boosts early to get somewhere fast. I prefer to save them to get out of trouble or to get distance between myself and an enemy faster when I need to break off. You also need to be good at knowing what ammo type you should be using. TBH, you'll use your HE a decent amount to do damage just because your AP wont penetrate a number of things that other BBs would. Catch anything broadside though, that AP really hurts, especially if you have a reload boost ready to go! She's really not that hard to play, at least IMO. Also, I really enjoy Stalingrad in either ranked or randoms. I got enough steel for her when I hit rank 4 last season and then used her almost exclusively to rank out, achieving a 60% win rate if I remember correctly. This is strictly just me, but I don't like using her in CBs. Only tried it like 3 times but it was rough going for me. It seems like every time a team loads a Stalingrad into a CB, the enemy teams #1 goal is to kill it, which means you get focused down hardcore if your clanmates don't support you or you don't position well.

ah, i got ya. thank you for telling me a general play style for her. i always hate going against her, but i do notice she can be squishy sometimes. i only need 2,589 more steel w/ coupon to get her. hopefully i can get a super container, and some type of mission/game mode that has steel as a reward sooner than later.

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