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Swedish DDs

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So, what role do people see the Swedish DDs playing?  And does it vary by tier?  I play my Swedish DDs as straight up hybrids, not as gun boats.  But I'm curious how other people are playing their Swedish DDs.  And how are other people setting them up, i.e. upgrade modules and captain skills.

Personally, without smoke, they don't feel fast enough to be hardcore gunboats because they lack the speed of Russian style gunboat DDs.  To me, they feel more like well balanced hybrids, DDs that are relatively equally capable of torping and shooting their guns.  Admittedly, their torps don't do massive damage, but they seem to be pretty decent at generating floods and with their quick reloads, you have a chance to get floods that stick.

What are your thoughts on this?

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Starting at t8 you can't kite effectively due to only 1 rear turret.

You have to pick your fights carefully because the are big and fat destroyers. 

The t7 kites very well.

But you are correct the speed is underwhelming. 

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Torp dds. Guns to finish crippled ships. Can’t win a gunfight with a dd once you get to 4 mains. Speed flag is essential as is speed boost to break contact. AA is pretty good. Make good bb or ca escorts. If you have team work it can be really effective otherwise Lone wolf off the beaten path and lay torps 

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Their role is to suck FXP from the player base to grind yet another line.

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I've learned not to pick a fight with them in a DD, because they have radar and you don't. I had momentarily forgotten that, and was reminded the hard way.

Also, their AA is actually effective. I've been playing Langly, and pretty much the best AA ship I've encountered is the Visby (that's not a high bar at T4, but still...). And from what I've seen that holds true up the line. Remind why the IKEA DDs get better AA than dedicated AA ships like USN cruisers?

Also RIP Pan-Asian DDs, gimmick stolen and powercrept like so many other ships.

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I've been playing Smaland as a DD hunter and spotter, mostly using her torps for flushing DDs out from smoke or killing them in their smoke while gunboating when i can isolate a DD without getting focused down. She's tied with Daring as the best fleet support/anti-DD DD in tier 10 IMO; she isn't as strong at capping but she's outstanding at cap control/denial and at striking off as a lone wolf to hunt down DDs that are making pests of themselves. Like Daring, she can carry a game without high damage numbers. I don't know if she'd be worth the 2 million free XP for anyone but a gunboat DD main, but she was worth it for me. 

As far as the tech tree boats, I only have Visby and Vasteras so far, but they seem to be hybrids that rely on torps more than guns early game but have the guns to contribute well midgame once the other team is thinned out a bit. They can't speedtank or smoke-and-shoot, but they excel at finishing off wounded, killing DDs, and opportunistic firesetting. 

Visby I played much like my Kamikaze; Kami's guns are better than people give her credit for, but Visby's still a stronger gunboat. Her torp game is similar, though.  Her torps are longer range by 1km; she loses out on versatility (2x3 with a longer reload as opposed to 3x2 with a lightning reload) and alpha damage (even a full 100% hit torp salvo won't usually sink a healthy BB)  but her torps are fast and produce floods. If you like to YOLO and sink a BB with a full torp strike while dying in a blaze of glory, Visby isn't your boat, but if you play a patient stalking game, you're almost as effective a torpboat as Kami.  And you can 1v1 most other DDs and have the HP left to keep fighting. Visby's a keeper.

Vasteras is...difficult. I have done well in her damage-wise, but a string of bad teams made her insanely frustrating (lost 7 in a row at one point.) She's not as good for her tier as Visby, but similar playstyle. She won't be a keeper as i already have a glut of beloved t6 DDs (T-61 and Farragut are in my top five DDs and Aigle isn't far behind)  but she's serviceable if you gel with her and like a challenge.. I think she needs a slight buff to be competitive; she gets one more gun than Visby but the same reload, and with the hidden gun reload buff on Visby (the single turret reloads faster than the doubles, which isn't listed on her attributes) they have pretty much the same gun dpm. Her torps have 2km more range, but she reloads 5 seconds slower. I made Vasteras work because I'm a good mid-tier DD player, but she feels like playing Nurnberg after Konigsberg;  a sidegrade or very minor upgrade over the tier below her.

TLDR: Visby is a very strong tier 5, Vasteras is a very weak tier 6. But the progression is there; they play similarly enough that I think I have a mental picture of what the rest of the line will play like. I'm hoping tiers 7-10 are stronger tier-for-tier than the tier 6. Smaland is exactly what a tier 10 premium should be: different from anything else out there, reasonably high skill floor and skill ceiling, and strong or situationally OP without being idiot-proof or OP across the board.

Edited by poeticmotion
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Once you get to Skane at tier 7 they are definitely torp-first boats, due to having only 2x2 guns with mediocre reload and below average rotation speed.  Ok for finishing off wounded targets, but if you go looking for a gunfight you will lose unless the other DD is bad.  If you can use an island to block LoS you can try to start some fires with your guns, but otherwise your best bet is to launch torps as soon as they cycle.  The alpha is poor, but because they reload so quickly and travel so fast you can tax your target's DCP and floods will often stick.  The AA is pretty decent, I had a match in Skane where I shot down 23 planes; that said a determined CV will still either sink you or neuter you.  I definitely wish they had more speed as a line, t7 and up max out at about 35kts which isn't quite enough for a smokeless DD IMO.  I wish they were closer to 38-39kts base... but whatever. 

This line is my first attempt at playing a smokeless DD, and while I hate seeing a CV in the lineup the line is teaching me new things about positioning and how to be stealthy and also how to be effective even if spotted.  I'm not convinced that the entire line is competitive as is - I think some very minor buffs would make them much more comfortable to play, but they aren't bad boats by any stretch.

tl;dr:  Patience, positioning.  Spot, flank, torp like a maniac and stick DoTs. 

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They feel like aggressive support ships to me. I've found Skane and Vasteras at least to work best minding the flanks and tossing torpedoes in consistently to soften up targets for your allies, but their speed also means that ducking in and out of contact is a snap and that you can really dictate the tempo of the battle against other ships. They also feel very much like hybrid ships to me. Yes from Skane on up they only get four guns in two turrets, but their rate of fire and traverse rates range from not half bad to positively TERRIFYING. I'm honestly kind of shocked that Halland and Smaland not only seem to keep Friesland's rate of fire, but IMPROVE on it! Without smoke to fall back on for retreats and ambushes this will undoubtedly be a tough like for some people to get used to, but I for one am loving them and this is the second time that my experience in a French line has helped shape my playstyle in another one.

On 3/30/2020 at 12:00 AM, AJTP89 said:

Also, their AA is actually effective. I've been playing Langly, and pretty much the best AA ship I've encountered is the Visby (that's not a high bar at T4, but still...). And from what I've seen that holds true up the line. Remind why the IKEA DDs get better AA than dedicated AA ships like USN cruisers?

Ohh you think Bofors are your ally? You merely adopted the Bofors, I was born to it! Molded by it! I didn't see a dual-purpose gun until I was a man!

Seriously though, that's a big part of the reason: 40mm Bofors everywhere. They even get the upgraded 40mm/70 on the higher tier ships as opposed to the 40mm/50 that the US and lower tier Swedes get.

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On 3/29/2020 at 9:59 PM, poeticmotion said:

Vasteras is...difficult.

Vasteras is actually very easy to play, in my humble opinion.  The only thing that makes her "hard" to play, is her Tier VI status, as you say. 

On 3/29/2020 at 9:59 PM, poeticmotion said:

She's not as good for her tier as Visby, but similar playstyle.

Absolutely agree.   Vasteras is essentially Visby, but with more guns, and longer range torpedoes. 

 

On 3/29/2020 at 9:59 PM, poeticmotion said:

Smaland is exactly what a tier 10 premium should be: different from anything else out there, reasonably high skill floor and skill ceiling, and strong or situationally OP without being idiot-proof or OP across the board.

Also agree.   Smaland is good, but not OP.....she is also hard to play.   I have already had great games in her....but I have also had bad games in her as well.   She is quite large for a destroyer, and that makes her easy to be focused and taken down if spotted.  

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Well these DD's over all are weak in too many areas as i see it. Don't have the Smaland but not looking to get her either. Too costly for me. I'm not a DD player either, but can do alot better with other nations DD's. I've Kited them and been very agressive with them and found the guns weak and speed also weak. No smoke and they are just moving targets to be sunk. I think they are a waste like the Italian CA's. Slow reloads as well as weak armor and speed.

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I've very much enjoyed Visby and Vasteras as jack-of-all trades DDs.  Although the gun rotation is slow, they handle well otherwise.  I've gotten a lot of use out of micro-maneuvers in gunfights with other destroyers, and their guns seem to be quite accurate in the 6-8 km range.  The torps aren't battleship killers, but their fast reload means I almost always have a spread in the water, so they're quite handy in contesting caps.  Honestly, just a lot of fun to play!

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IMO the line is a bunch of port Queen's. Granted I only have the T5 and 6 but these 2 shining examples of Meh are enough.  They lack the punch of a REAL DD, 6 torps into a Fuso at point blank range, 30k dmg, any other DD said BB would be dead.

Turret traverse like a lethargic sloth, meh Gun damage, poor reload, they are overall not inspiring. No smoke, seen from orbit (for a DD), and the gimick heal, dump it and give me smoke and a decent Concealment. I only got the 2 from the event and thats the ONLY 2 I'll own EVER.  Higher Tier's should be better (increased rof, better traverse speed, better damage on guns) but suffering thru the line just isn't happening for 1 or 2 I would even consider keeping.  

French DD's are better IMO and they are meh compared to the IJN/US/KM lines. 

Some of you may feel they are Decent, Tier for Tier I have not found a single Eur DD that is better at anything than a counterpart in another Nation's DD lines. They do not even come close, I guess if your a Collector, then they may have a use, but a uninspiring line overall leaves me no desire to purchase one. The 2 I have are the freebies earned by normal play, I won't even spend credits on these things they are that MEH IMO.

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On 3/30/2020 at 7:52 AM, Uncle_Lou said:

Once you get to Skane at tier 7 they are definitely torp-first boats, due to having only 2x2 guns with mediocre reload and below average rotation speed.  Ok for finishing off wounded targets, but if you go looking for a gunfight you will lose unless the other DD is bad.  If you can use an island to block LoS you can try to start some fires with your guns, but otherwise your best bet is to launch torps as soon as they cycle.  The alpha is poor, but because they reload so quickly and travel so fast you can tax your target's DCP and floods will often stick.  The AA is pretty decent, I had a match in Skane where I shot down 23 planes; that said a determined CV will still either sink you or neuter you.  I definitely wish they had more speed as a line, t7 and up max out at about 35kts which isn't quite enough for a smokeless DD IMO.  I wish they were closer to 38-39kts base... but whatever. 

This line is my first attempt at playing a smokeless DD, and while I hate seeing a CV in the lineup the line is teaching me new things about positioning and how to be stealthy and also how to be effective even if spotted.  I'm not convinced that the entire line is competitive as is - I think some very minor buffs would make them much more comfortable to play, but they aren't bad boats by any stretch.

tl;dr:  Patience, positioning.  Spot, flank, torp like a maniac and stick DoTs. 

Agree 100% starting at tier 7 with Skåne amazing torp boat. And more speed is a wish to the WG gods ;-)

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On 4/2/2020 at 8:42 PM, LeviTheOx said:

I've very much enjoyed Visby and Vasteras as jack-of-all trades DDs.  Although the gun rotation is slow, they handle well otherwise

Just had an example of their limitations (Vasteras anyway)

Charged an Izmail for a torp run. He quickly got his forward guns on me and hurt me. My guns didn't do enough damage to even bother him. Drove by and put all 6 torps into his side. Knocked him down to 1/4 health. We got into a  turning fight as I waited for may torps to reload. He was healing faster than I could hurt him. He seemed to have less trouble keeping his guns on me than I did keeping mine on him. Big difference was he was hurting me, I might have annoyed him. My torps finally reloaded and I got one set off before he sank me. Hit with 2 and finally sank him. 

Turrets are slow and somebody seems to have loaded baking powder into the warheads on the torpedoes.

Trying to like the Vasteras, Have no desire to keep the Visby. So many better choices.

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The T9 and T10, which are the ones I have played most, are pests to be honest. They are like that annoying shima floating around the map, except they have a hard time getting into position because they are so slow and have mediocre concealment. You might get a bit of fun out of them if you enjoy torpedoes, just because they are so different. The one thing I have found them to be good for, especially in the current meta, is torping smoke. Competitive? Absolutely not. I would pick pretty much any other DD over the Halland. They need either smoke, lowered concealment, or a speed buff.

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Good example of how weak the torps are on this line. I was in a Vassteras dueling a Shiratsuyu (in coop). Had him down close to half damage and launched torps as I passed. Hit him with (at least) 3 torps to finish the kill. Any other DD line torp would have killed him with one with the rest not registering as hits. As  side note, I cut speed and turned in a tad late and caught one of his torps which killed me.

The weak torps will inflate the torp hit % as much as the speed. More torps from a salvo will need to hit to actually sink the ship. 

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Iv've played from tier 5-8 at this point.

It seems to me the further I go up the line the more it hurts. Their main issue is speed. You can't get around like you want to, and that means if another DD wants to duel you he gets to. On the tier 8 at this point, and I've had a number of frustrating games where that was a real problem. Stuff like getting wolf packed by 2-3 DDs on a cap. With smoke boys I could pop and leave the surprise engagement. With french boys I could run and gun out of there. With the Euro boys? Nope. You gotta rely on teammates to help, and by god do they ever let you down. It's what I imagine shima play without smoke would feel like. Everyone want's to fight you, and you don't have a whole lot of outs. 

Another issue is the shell velocity. It's not the worst, but it's bad enough that you start having issues against other DDs at medium to long range. There really isn't a good engagement range for the ships besides not engaging. 

The torps are good though. Much more consistent on the damage, but lower numbers. 

 

They aren't great ships. Lets be plain with it. It's a gimmick tree for those who are bored and have FXP lying around. 

Edited by Sou1forge

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these dds have taught me a heal is no substitute for smoke. i made it almost all the way through tier 7 and rage quit.  i friggin hate this line. 

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1 hour ago, Capt_Q_Sparrow said:

flat out these DDs are garbage  Another WG fiasco 

The Swedish line requires a different play style than other DDs. There certainly is a learning curve.

I understand if you're frustrated that the new style didn't "click" for you yet. Don't blame the ship, though: such a claim looks foolish while other people are playing them successfully.

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On 4/28/2020 at 5:47 PM, imaginary_b said:

The Swedish line requires a different play style than other DDs. There certainly is a learning curve.

I understand if you're frustrated that the new style didn't "click" for you yet. Don't blame the ship, though: such a claim looks foolish while other people are playing them successfully.

if you have a ship line that is extremely slower higher in detect with no way of breaking contact when spotted  and weaker guns I'm just telling it like it is .  I'll take a US DD tier for tier and tear these things up every time . Same with the IJN line and the russian line  . They are terrible .  They gave us a ship line with decent AA for a DD and threw the rest of it's specs under the bus . These things need some speed or detect buffs . The only thing this line can do is shoot a few planes down , Once spotted it's dead as it can not defend itself .

Example  I run into a  Benson with the Oland   I can not escape it as the Benson is faster has more guns and is more maneuverable   .  I have no smoke . I have less hit points . If there is no one else to kill that Benson I am dead . one on one these ships are inferior to all other Dds . The Pan Asian ships will out shoot it .  They Stink                                                                                                                        

 

Edited by Capt_Q_Sparrow

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