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skhend25

Looking for answer regarding MM

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I did a back of the envelope tracking of my last 40 T5-T7 games. In 31 of those I was bottom tier. 

My question is, is there any level of module completion/captain points/etc... that goes into the calculation of what game you fall into?

Because if I can adjust to whatever the criteria is so I can at least be 50/50 bottom tier vs mid/top I would be a happier camper...

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You'll never be 50/50.  Theoretically you should have 33% in each type of battle, but it isn't that simple.

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It keeps a rolling count of your past 20 battles at that tier and adjusts accordingly to ensure you arent bottom tier too many times but this can get overridden if waiting in the queue too long. You were looking at multiple tiers though which is irrelevant. 

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19 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

It keeps a rolling count of your past 20 battles at that tier and adjusts accordingly to ensure you arent bottom tier too many times but this can get overridden if waiting in the queue too long. You were looking at multiple tiers though which is irrelevant. 

And ship.

If you keep switching ships the counter for THAT ship is what us counted.

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32 minutes ago, skhend25 said:

I did a back of the envelope tracking of my last 40 T5-T7 games. In 31 of those I was bottom tier. 

My question is, is there any level of module completion/captain points/etc... that goes into the calculation of what game you fall into?

Because if I can adjust to whatever the criteria is so I can at least be 50/50 bottom tier vs mid/top I would be a happier camper...

What the others have said.  MM keeps track of your last 20 battles in that ship.  If I recall correctly, it will place you in the bottom tier no more than eight out of 20 times IF they're enough ships in the queue with you.  If the queue has few ships within range and you wait a long time, all bets are off.

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In plain speak without having to dissect what going on through formulas just understand this.... "Match maker hates you.- yes just you and only you."

 

Edited by Chain_shot
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now were they all 3 tier matchups? or were you sometimes low tier in a 2 tier matchup?   or... did you only count matches where there were 3 tiers... and not include the single or 2 tier matchups?

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1 hour ago, RipNuN2 said:

It keeps a rolling count of your past 20 battles at that tier and adjusts accordingly to ensure you arent bottom tier too many times but this can get overridden if waiting in the queue too long. You were looking at multiple tiers though which is irrelevant. 

Is this fact? In my expert scientific studies I found that if you played the same ship without logging off it evens out, switching ships or logging off seems to reset the counter.... with then provides the seemingly endless bottom tier MM. 

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1 hour ago, Waxing_Gibbous said:

Is this fact? In my expert scientific studies I found that if you played the same ship without logging off it evens out, switching ships or logging off seems to reset the counter.... with then provides the seemingly endless bottom tier MM. 

WG said that's how it works. And I think it is working, as single tier battles became WAY more common once they implemented the change. T9 is very often single tier now, and T8 seems more balanced as well. And T10 battles have a lot more T10s. MM times have also gone up. While I haven't tracked my individual ships, the overall trends are pretty obvious. Something definitely was changed, and there's no reason to think WG screwed up and MM is doing something other than they say.

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All MM does is match the ship and the tier is does not track your win rate or what tier you fall into that's why it's called Random

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19 hours ago, skhend25 said:

I did a back of the envelope tracking of my last 40 T5-T7 games. In 31 of those I was bottom tier. 

My question is, is there any level of module completion/captain points/etc... that goes into the calculation of what game you fall into?

Because if I can adjust to whatever the criteria is so I can at least be 50/50 bottom tier vs mid/top I would be a happier camper...

What were your last 20 for each tier?

That's what MM counts, and ensures no more than 8 of your last 20 games in each tier are bottom tier, whenever you queue up.

If you're going to keep track, keep track of each tier separately, (or just play one tier) and once you hit 20 games in a given tier, drop the earliest one each time you play a new one.

That running total should never be more than 40% bottom tier.

 

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@Hapa_Fodder, can you please confirm how MM works in this case?

Does it look at your last 20 games per tier, or per ship, to determine if your tiering needs to be adjusted so you don't have too many bottom tier matches?

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Aloha,

So the 20 battles number came from the initial release of this update, MM attempts to ensure that no more than 40% of 20 battles at each tier are uptiered.

This can be overridden by time in que (as most MM rules can be).

So this means for Tier V, tier VI and tier VII it will attempt to only uptier EACH tier a maximum of 40%

So if you play say 5 battles at tier V then 5 battles at tier VI and 5 battles at tier VII and that is it, it IS possible to be uptiered for 15 battles.

Conversely, let's say you intend to just play tier V and you have played 8 battles so far and have been uptiered for all of them, then assuming you aren't in que too long to where rules start getting overridden, your next 12 should be tier V battles.

Mahalo,

-Hapa

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So match making is rigged then against the player hmmmm... who would have thought?

 

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6 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Aloha,

So the 20 battles number came from the initial release of this update, MM attempts to ensure that no more than 40% of 20 battles at each tier are uptiered.

This can be overridden by time in que (as most MM rules can be).

So this means for Tier V, tier VI and tier VII it will attempt to only uptier EACH tier a maximum of 40%

So if you play say 5 battles at tier V then 5 battles at tier VI and 5 battles at tier VII and that is it, it IS possible to be uptiered for 15 battles.

Conversely, let's say you intend to just play tier V and you have played 8 battles so far and have been uptiered for all of them, then assuming you aren't in que too long to where rules start getting overridden, your next 12 should be tier V battles.

Mahalo,

-Hapa

I thought it was done in a manner where 40% won't be uptiered thus 60% will...??

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On 3/30/2020 at 4:43 AM, AJTP89 said:

WG said that's how it works. And I think it is working, as single tier battles became WAY more common once they implemented the change. T9 is very often single tier now, and T8 seems more balanced as well. And T10 battles have a lot more T10s. MM times have also gone up. While I haven't tracked my individual ships, the overall trends are pretty obvious. Something definitely was changed, and there's no reason to think WG screwed up and MM is doing something other than they say.

Yes, I have noticed this as well. T9 has benefited especially from the MM changes. It was T7 that got screwed, it used to be the best balanced tier, but now you're uptiered 40% of the time.

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When T7 I'm top tier about 25% of the time and bottom tier the same. This would seem to support the algorithm of the MM engine.

Seems perfectly fair to me. Some ships uptier better than others and learning which ones makes you a better player.

 

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2 hours ago, Chain_shot said:

So match making is rigged then against the player hmmmm... who would have thought?

 

 

where did you get that idea from?

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1 hour ago, Taichunger said:

Yes, I have noticed this as well. T9 has benefited especially from the MM changes. It was T7 that got screwed, it used to be the best balanced tier, but now you're uptiered 40% of the time.

but whats wrong with that?  more exp and rewards for being low tier and it doesn't mean a loss....   and the other 60% of the time you will not be low tier...

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On 3/29/2020 at 3:43 PM, AJTP89 said:

WG said that's how it works. And I think it is working, as single tier battles became WAY more common once they implemented the change. T9 is very often single tier now, and T8 seems more balanced as well. And T10 battles have a lot more T10s. MM times have also gone up. While I haven't tracked my individual ships, the overall trends are pretty obvious. Something definitely was changed, and there's no reason to think WG screwed up and MM is doing something other than they say.

While I agree it's working sometimes ,  I've also had times when I was no doubt above the 40% max they state.  Then you have to consider the details that I doubt anybody here has the answers to...like if you play a coop game does that count in the mix?  If a long queue forces a game does that game count?  What do same tier games count as?  What if you buy a new ship, how does that affect it? (I ask this one because almost without fail new ships will have a ton of bottom tier battles at first).

I know of no place that gives the info for these type questions.

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2 hours ago, NoSoMo said:

I thought it was done in a manner where 40% won't be uptiered thus 60% will...??

No it is no more than 40% of battles, but keep in mind. Like I said, that is for EVERY tier... so it is possible to have more than 40% if you are playing multiple tiers.

-Hapa

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1 hour ago, SKurj said:

but whats wrong with that?  more exp and rewards for being low tier and it doesn't mean a loss....   and the other 60% of the time you will not be low tier...

I dont need either and I am tired of facing T10 Musashis in T7 BBs.

What I want is a one-tier MM spread.

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Just now, Taichunger said:

I dont need either and I am tired of facing T10 Musashis in T7 BBs.

What I want is a one-tier MM spread.

do you mean +/-1? or all same tier?  I have no idea what the server population is like but it feels much less than WoT... at least in randoms... i expect it would not be enough to support it... queue time etc... and of course WG's goals of time to cycle players thru the matches.

Though Musashi is T9, i dunno if i have faced one since i returned to the game a week or so ago...

 

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Play Tier 10 and you’ll be top tier every time, or that seems to be the message WG is feeding me between the lines. Otherwise, I just can’t imagine it’s worth the effort of coming up with a match maker that takes into account a half-dozen or more individual variables like WR, PR, prev battle results, captain points, signals, modules, upgrades, karma, forum reputation, etc. to achieve a specific result that applies equally to all 24 players per the latest spreadsheet, or even just one very special person...That would require way more tin foil than I have access to at the moment!

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Sounds like the fact that I basically scroll through all my ships sequentially rather than play one or 2 consistently maybe what has caused this abnormal distribution over that stretch of games... much appreciated for everyone's input

Edited by skhend25

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