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Zaydin

What tier 9 BB do people dread facing more: The Musashi or the Georgia?

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Was just a thought that ended up coming to me recently and wondering which of the tier 9 BBs armed with 457mm+ guns do people dread facing more. The Musashi has more barrels, more health and better armor than the Georgia, but the Musashi has a glaring weakness in its weak AA while the Georgia has a big ol' bucket of gimmicks; long range secondaries, the engine boost, a quick recharge Repair party and vastly superior AA.

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Well for one thing, Musashi is a tier 9 BB that can violate other BB's bow without their consent.

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TBH, the Georgia. Not that I dread facing it more, just trying to kill it.

A bad player in a Georgia can still zoom around and be iffy to hit. (or straight up run away from you) A bad player in a Musashi either gives you broadside for multiple reload cycles, or stops and gets flanked.

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Musashi, in general. The broadside weight is much heavier than the G despite the accuracy I know it can achieve.

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Musashi. Nine, high damage, 460mm guns, that can ignore 32mm armour is hard to argue with.

Georgia's advantages imho are less relevant. Georgia's speed is a positioning tool and is not in itself that dangerous (ramming speed!). Her secondaries are not so hot after the IFHE changes. Her better AA is not something to fear for any class, other than CV which can just avoid Georgia. Her guns are really nice and accurate but Georgia only has six of them.

Georgia is a fun ship, but I do not fear it shooting at me as much as a Musashi.

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After playing both of them, I'd say Musashi for sure, as her guns are far more consistent and lolpen 32mm.

Gerogia has only x6 guns, and to me, they do a lot of damage sure, but they never seem to behave in my experience. Still, when they citadel something, it's a great feeling, especially when you've been fishing for a solid hit for the whole match and finally just do a third of a ships HP bar with just 2 shells. Secondaries are also nice, but I don't have MFSA yet. Probably the other thing, as you need a 18 pt captain for Georgia to really be scary with them secondaries.

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Depends on the ship I am currently in. I'm also assuming player skill is being considered equal here.

If I'm in a BB, it's the Musashi. The 32mm overmatch simply straight up removes/restricts mitigation options. As a BB is typically (not always) fairly big and clumsy, armour bouncing shells is a key factor, the Musashi bypasses that with the crucial breakpoint. The guns of a Georgia are easier to mitigate. While the Georgia has speed and secondaries the usual position of a BB means that a Georgia has to extend far forward while being visible. This gives the ability to react and respond before the secondaries and speed become a ship ending threat.

 

If I'm in a CA/CL or DD it's usually the Georgia. The ship doesn't have the 32mm overmatch, but it does have the 30mm overmatch, so same effective overmatch threat the Musashi presents vs a CA/CL. But the Georgia has speed and secondaries to burst forward, and being in either a DD or Cruiser typically puts you further forward, so more at risk at being caught out by a well timed forward sprint. So now the Georgia can potentially catch you within secondary range and/or perma spotting and if done correctly with speed boost can keep a large number of ships there, and unlike a BB you don't have the armour or staying power to try and attrition it out.

Part of the threat of Georgia is less about the ship itself but more all the attention it draws, when executed well a Georgia sprinting forward can allow it's team to focus fire with near impunity, take out key targets that can't escape to go dark, and everyone is focused on the Georgia that they can lose track of other threats and caught by surprise salvos. Or just accidentally/forced to retreat from a key location because no-one wants to get caught.

 

Of course player skill will drastically alter this threat, a well played Georgia is more dangerous to me in a BB then a badly played Musashi.

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As a T9 BB I would probably be more warry of Musashi.

 

As a T9 cruisers (or just cruiser) Musashi inconsistency makes her less treatening than Georgia. Georgia can just ignore your armour and go straight to your citadel. It has stupid accuracy, fast heal and speed as well as good secondaries so taking one down is more about the Georgia doing a mistake than you outplaying the ship.

 

 

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Any High Tier BB can capably tank 457mm guns if they're ready for it.  But 460s have Overmatch advantages, and the easiest defensive measure, bow tanking becomes a "Citadel me here" tactic.

 

Maplesyrup just got 1st Quarter 2020 stats up for the server.  WR% / Dmg Avg for Randoms.

Musashi 55.05% WR / 90,122 Dmg Avg

Georgia 52.70% WR / 74,439 Dmg Avg

 

Season 13 Tier IX Ranked, it's just as lopsided.  You can see player preference for Musashi as well as her continued performance in the earlier Season 11 Ranked before Georgia arrived.  Musashi in Season 11 was the most played ship, and she's long been out of circulation.

 

I'm not saying Georgia is a weak ship.  Far from it, I think she's OP.  But Musashi breaks Tier IX.

 

1 hour ago, Helstrem said:

Musashi.

 

We also made fun of Musashi when she was new because she didn't have Yamato's 2.1 Sigma:Smile_coin:

I was honestly surprised how she turned out, but when you really looked at her stats and compared her to Yamato, one shouldn't have been surprised that a Tier X BB brought into Tier IX would dominate :Smile_veryhappy:

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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well driven, both deadly. Musashi always a foe to consider, but her playstyle is predictable as hell, and DDs have fun torping it (big, clumsy target). BBs fear it.

Georgia is far more flexible, many times I laugh when im running at 38 kts watching a cruiser or DD trying to disengage. Brutal secs (if specced), decent AA. As skipper I love to drive a georgia, but I fear more the musashi, one good salvo and game over.

Probably a well driven georgia is more of an asset for her team. And more fun for sure. But answering your question, Musashi is pure fear for the enemy.

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Having been run down in my Monarch by a Georgia on speed boost (on the Ocean map, worst luck), I would rather try to get away from the Musashi. I'm not sure the Monarch's actually any faster than the Yamato twins, but at least they don't have the ability to abruptly become 10 knots faster than I am.

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5 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Having been run down in my Monarch by a Georgia on speed boost (on the Ocean map, worst luck), I would rather try to get away from the Musashi. I'm not sure the Monarch's actually any faster than the Yamato twins, but at least they don't have the ability to abruptly become 10 knots faster than I am.

The thing with Musashi against Monarch, the 460s will literally sh*t on Monarch at any spot on the ship because of the 32mm armor, which is Overmatched by 460mm AP.  Bow, stern, deck armor, whatever.  Musashi doesn't need to chase a Monarch down.  The 460mm shells will do the chasing!

 

When the RN BBs came out, I remember having a Yamato game.  I suddenly realized that they were coated all over by armor I could Overmatch, not like USN, German BBs.  USN has 38mm decks, Germans 50mm, can't Overmatch them.  But RN BBs?  Hell yeah, 32mm decks, even Conqueror has the same thing.  It repeats itself with the much later FR BBs.

457mm AP can't Overmatch 32mm armor, so the softer FR & RN BB armor scheme is safer against those guns.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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16 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The thing with Musashi against Monarch, the 460s will literally sh*t on Monarch at any spot on the ship because of the 32mm armor, which is Overmatched by 460mm AP.  Bow, stern, deck armor, whatever.  Musashi doesn't need to chase a Monarch down.  The 460mm shells will do the chasing!

Regardless of the opponent, I have a slim chance of baiting and bouncing 457 and 460 off the belt. But the Georgia secondaries can't be bounced, and he can close the range very quickly to the point where he won't miss with the main armament either. At least with the Musashi I have a hope of keeping distance if not gaining it, and having a few seconds to angle or dodge.

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They're very much different beasts.

Georgia is a lot more unpredictable because she's got those secondaries, good accuracy, and speed.  Georgias can be slippery, and if you lose sight of her you never know where she's going to turn up. She's honestly a DD's nightmare because, as a good friend put it:

Roses are red,
House walls are plaster.
Destroyers are fast,
But Georgia is faster!

Georgia may be easier to kill, but in the right hands is a much deadlier precision weapon.


Musashi, on the other hand, is a sledgehammer in search of a nail. If you run into one and your team doesn't have a CV, your best bet is to sneak up on her with a destroyer and aim for the ends. Her armor and HP are stupidly good, her torpedo protection is best in tier, and those nine 460mm rifles will end you. Musashi is a slow moving AP-slinging powerhouse that can end ANY ship's day. Just watch out for AP dive bombers, ship-launched fish, or anyone smart enough to know about the infamous cheek.


I'm more afraid of a Georgia in the hands of a smart player, but and average player in Musashi is more of an issue to deal with.

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really depends on who is driving it.   with better player, I am more afraid of   georgia .   it seem to be more accurate out to 15+km .    I am rarely concerned with musashi as they tend to hang back and  snipe all match and i can burn them down .  

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It depends on the game. 

Usually Georgia. 

I play solo drop randoms, and can't trust my teammates to focus/hit her. And she's harder to run from in squishy high tier cruisers. Also I play a lot of CV, so Musashi is not particularly threatening then.

 

That said, the Musashi is worse to face when it's a tier 9 game with few tier 9's. Things can't just sit at range and burn it down from tier 7. And it's much worse to face in the hands of a skilled player than the GA

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I'm always 2x more dreadful of Musashi than Georgia. 
Solely because Musashi is always so much harder to kill and negates angling, lacks significant superstructure. 
Georgia is made of paper. Anything can kill it just about and the speed is mostly just used to get themselves into trouble. Only 6 guns? Accuracy aside, I see their guns troll them when having to fight wiggling targets. Meh. 

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With an average/bad player, Musashi. The power of the guns makes up for a lot of player deficiency, and people can just shoot you across the map due to the range, so if you stop paying attention to them and give a good shot inadvertently...you could eat some bad damage.

Vs a good player, Geo. The skill ceiling is much higher with that ship, and players who understand it will exploit that. Fortunately most people just use her capabilities to suicide in her.

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Since I do mostly co-op, Musashi.    Bot AI's don't seem to suffer from accuracy issues, and Musashi can kill you at any angle.   Except as a CV driver.   As a CV driver I tend to go for the Musashi first.   AA is not that great.

Edited by Ann_Darrow

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Musashi, for sure. It's a T10 BB and totally OP at T9. It has excellent armor and torpedo protection. The guns are basically free damage on everything.

Georgia is an easy kill with that lame Iowa armor, only 6 guns, and further, people tend to push up wanting to use its secondaries, meaning that Georgia-s are often overextended.

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On 3/28/2020 at 7:52 PM, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Regardless of the opponent, I have a slim chance of baiting and bouncing 457 and 460 off the belt. But the Georgia secondaries can't be bounced, and he can close the range very quickly to the point where he won't miss with the main armament either. At least with the Musashi I have a hope of keeping distance if not gaining it, and having a few seconds to angle or dodge.

457mm AP cannot Overmatch your 32mm bow, stern, deck armor.

460mm AP can.

Georgia secondaries, as with other Mega Secondaries BBs, are easily negated:  They can't safely push up for most of the game because they'll get focused.  If they do, then hey, free damage and a kill for your team.  The opportunity to push for Secondaries Brawl is infrequent and sometimes it doesn't even come up at all in games.  This is something Mass, Bismarck, Georgia, GK, FDG, Republique, or any Secondary Spec BB in the game has to deal with.

Also, simply sailing with teammates is a big deterrent for a brawler.  A brawl is already high in attrition, so getting caught trying to fight multiple opponents as a brawler is a highly risky maneuver.

If a 21kt Colorado can keep a fast, Tier VIII-IX Brawler BB with Mega Secondaries at bay simply by sailing with teammates, then a 28kt stealthy Monarch easily can.

 

Meanwhile, Musashi's 460mm guns are always in play.   Intermediate, short, long range, it doesn't matter, they're always in play.  They are immediately at play at the start until the match ends or she gets sunk.  She does not need to be close to do her best work.

You can be alone.

You can be sailing with teammates.

It doesn't matter.  Musashi's 460mm guns can still pick you out.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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13 hours ago, MnemonScarlet said:

With an average/bad player, Musashi. The power of the guns makes up for a lot of player deficiency, and people can just shoot you across the map due to the range, so if you stop paying attention to them and give a good shot inadvertently...you could eat some bad damage.

Vs a good player, Geo. The skill ceiling is much higher with that ship, and players who understand it will exploit that. Fortunately most people just use her capabilities to suicide in her.

 

13 hours ago, iDuckman said:

Alsace.

Both are plausible arguments. Georgia and Alsace are 2 of the highest-skill-ceiling BBs in Tier 9. CitizenS9 is a strong player who streams a variety of BBs' gameplay, and in the capable hands, Georgia and Alsace are formidable:

pl.thumb.png.a2bd8f1bf6dc82c3f5636e43227b9b22.png

Source: https://na.wows-numbers.com/player/1014929581,CitizenS9/

In the hands of average players, though, they are both very squishy and don't allow for many player mistakes. You have to pay 120% of your attention to positioning in order to outperform the Musashi in a Georgia or an Alsace.

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Musashi actually has extremely powerful secondaries. It's the best kept secret of that battleship.

According to my test against Worcester (MFCSA and AFT, no IFHE), Musashi's secondaries scored a DPS of 242.8, versus Massachusetts's secondaries DPS 217.2. I guess Georgia's secondaries are about the same as Massachusetts's. So the only advantage of Georgia's secondaries is that they are more accurate for shredding very small targets like DDs.

Some people assume Musashi's secondaries are weak because her AA is weak. Well, there is no such causality. If you like Georgia with a secondary build, you will also love Musashi with a secondary build.

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