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Sethalos

Auto-Torpedo Avoidance AI

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So, I'm wondering if there will ever be any AI upgrades and fix the kamikaze behaviour, and the fact that the AI knows: when, where, why, how, and if  Torps are launched, on track, and how to evade, the moment you launch.

 

Asking for a friend. 

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Why would there need to be AI upgrades if they know when, where, why & how to evade torpedo launches?

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Yes they do. If the bot is focused on you it can read your every input and will dodge everything you launch at it unless it is unavoidable/ point blank

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6 minutes ago, 1SneakyDevil said:

Why would there need to be AI upgrades if they know when, where, why & how to evade torpedo launches?

Because they can tell when I aim a torpedo launcher at them and start turning just as I press fire, but their torpedoes are totally aimed right at us no matter if we turn or not, no matter if they are turning or not sometimes if they are sinking they fire, but we cant, the bots have an unfair advantage

4 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Yes they do. If the bot is focused on you it can read your every input and will dodge everything you launch at it unless it is unavoidable/ point blank

That's an unfair advantage, also its why I rarely use torpedoes against a bot

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5 minutes ago, wolfkind252 said:

That's an unfair advantage, also its why I rarely use torpedoes against a bot

Call it training for when machines rebel and wage war against us.

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37 minutes ago, Sethalos said:

So, I'm wondering if there will ever be any AI upgrades and fix the kamikaze behaviour, and the fact that the AI knows: when, where, why, how, and if  Torps are launched, on track, and how to evade, the moment you launch.

 

Asking for a friend. 

sounds like tin foil hat stuff. There is no ability to have cheats in WoWs. Its all server side! :Smile_trollface:

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Maybe the friendly bots can stop torping backward into friendlies when there is not even an enemy on that side of the map?

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47 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Yes they do. If the bot is focused on you it can read your every input and will dodge everything you launch at it unless it is unavoidable/ point blank

I'm not sure it works like that, with the torps anyway.

I find that if, for example, 2 BBs are moving one behind the other, if you target lock one, but launch torps at the other, the one you locked will maneuver, but not the one you didn't and you can hit him like he was standing still.

They kind of have to know what you're doing though, to be as much of a challenge as they are. It would be too complex a task to make them assess risks as a player would, so they just simulate it.

 

Edited by Skpstr

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3 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

I'm not sure it works like that, with the torps anyway.

I find that if, for example, 2 BBs are moving one behind the other, if you target lock one, but launch torps at the other, the one you locked will maneuver, but not the one you didn't and you can hit him like he was standing still.

I was going to mention the same thing.  I often target lock, but not fire my torps.  Then when I have my torps aimed, I take target lock off and actually fire the torps.  It has a much higher success rate for torping bots.

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6 minutes ago, Murcc said:

I was going to mention the same thing.  I often target lock, but not fire my torps.  Then when I have my torps aimed, I take target lock off and actually fire the torps.  It has a much higher success rate for torping bots.

Oh ok, I never thought of that. So really, the bots are only avoiding if they detect that you both have them locked and fired torps.

I just tried the two ship thing, because you can still use the torp aim assist, you just have to compensate for the distance between the ship you lock, and the one you want to hit.

Edited by Skpstr

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1 hour ago, Sethalos said:

So, I'm wondering if there will ever be any AI upgrades and fix the kamikaze behaviour, and the fact that the AI knows: when, where, why, how, and if  Torps are launched, on track, and how to evade, the moment you launch.

 

Asking for a friend. 

Shhh!

Super secret IJN nerf reduction plan.:Smile_hiding: The sub test has found that the homing torp feature tried duing the sub testing will work with the IJN DD torp systems. :cap_look:The Asashio may be the first ship to be so equipped.

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2 minutes ago, Murcc said:

I was going to mention the same thing.  I often target lock, but not fire my torps.  Then when I have my torps aimed, I take target lock off and actually fire the torps.  It has a much higher success rate for torping bots.

 

8 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

I'm not sure it works like that, with the torps anyway.

I find that if, for example, 2 BBs are moving one behind the other, if you target lock one, but launch torps at the other, the one you locked will maneuver, but not the one you didn't and you can hit him like he was standing still.

They kind of have to know what you're doing though, to be as much of a challenge as they are. It would be too complex a task to make them assess risks as a player would, so they just simulate it.

 

Nice tip. TY

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11 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

Oh ok, I never thought of that. So really, the bots are only avoiding if they detect that you both have them locked and fired torps.

It seems that way.  They will still attempt torp avoidance, but in a normal manner when not targeted.  I think they only avoid torps when they get a torp spotted indication in this case, and not when the torps actually drop in the water like it appears to happen when locked.

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1 hour ago, ArIskandir said:

Call it training for when machines rebel and wage war against us.

you man if the world turns into the Terminator movie I'll be on a ship?

 

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1 hour ago, wolfkind252 said:

Because they can tell when I aim a torpedo launcher at them and start turning just as I press fire, but their torpedoes are totally aimed right at us no matter if we turn or not, no matter if they are turning or not sometimes if they are sinking they fire, but we cant, the bots have an unfair advantage

That's an unfair advantage, also its why I rarely use torpedoes against a bot

I got no issues torping bots in coop. Yeah they may dodge a few here or there but majority of the time I landed them.

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22 minutes ago, wolfkind252 said:

you man if the world turns into the Terminator movie I'll be on a ship?

 

Lol, I mean you won't beat a "machine" by having faster reflexes or better aiming. You beat it by exploiting its programing failures. 

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I'm guessing OP will be REALLY mad when OP notices that the very millisecond you are spotted there are 5 salvos headed your way and ALL hit and or start fires.  

Such fun!

It's life in COOP..you'll get used to it.

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The bots torp avoidance is wildly inconsistent. There are times they will sail in a straight line and you can torp them from 5k plus. Other times I have had them dodge sub 1Km shots pulling off impossible moves. As someone else pointed out such is the life of Co-Op. At least they don't stat peen or foam in chat.

 

Cirran

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The AI will ALMOST ALWAYS start dodging after you send Two torpedo banks its way.

The AI will ALMOST NEVER dodge if only One torpedo bank is fired at it.

 

Two or more includes not only your ship, but friendly ships as well.

However, the AI will never dodge friendly torps, which is why you see them TK'ing each other so often.

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22 minutes ago, Col_Nasty said:

I'm guessing OP will be REALLY mad when OP notices that the very millisecond you are spotted there are 5 salvos headed your way and ALL hit and or start fires.  

Such fun!

It's life in COOP..you'll get used to it.

Yea you do

I got used to it real fast liek I said thats why I hardly EVER use torpedoes in coop Random is just as bad using torpedoes, but at least its a human that Dodges a torpedo not a computer byte

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Where do you think the homing torpedo code that the submarines have had in testing came from?

Bots in co-op have had homing torpedoes for years

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AI coding is expensive and time consuming...  likely one of the reasons WG maybe considering discouraging coop/scenario play...

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48 minutes ago, SKurj said:

AI coding is expensive and time consuming...  likely one of the reasons WG maybe considering discouraging coop/scenario play...

"maybe considering"???????? I would say WG is very actively dissuading operations play with the upcoming nerf to rewards for scenarios and  ignoring all request for the return of the scenarios removed due to the CV rework.

Players themselves supply the content in PVP matches. There is no content in coops as it is a race to see who can sink the most red ships. The AI only needs to be adjusted for the tier level. 

But scenarios require developing a main mission with several secondary missions and the necessary AI. This is where the time & expense becomes a factor.

The game needs a PVE battle mode. Coops is the least complex therefore the lowest cost. For those 2 reasons I disagree with you in the context of coops but agree 100% in the realm of scenarios.

 

To answer the OP's question, I believe WG is very satisfied with the AI in coops.

 

 

Edited by kgh52

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32 minutes ago, kgh52 said:

"maybe considering"???????? I would say WG is very actively dissuading operations play with the upcoming nerf to rewards for scenarios and  ignoring all request for the return of the scenarios removed due to the CV rework.

Players themselves supply the content in PVP matches. There is no content in coops as it is a race to see who can sink the most red ships. The AI only needs to be adjusted for the tier level. 

But scenarios require developing a main mission with several secondary missions and the necessary AI. This is where the time & expense becomes a factor.

The game needs a PVE battle mode. Coops is the least complex therefore the lowest cost. For those 2 reasons I disagree with you in the context of coops but agree 100% in the realm of scenarios.

 

To answer the OP's question, I believe WG is very satisfied with the AI in coops.

 

 

i suppose but my statement still stands, coding AI behaviour is an expensive undertaking.  For WG to change it, and it would likely affect AI behaviour in both scenarios and coop.  Not just routing and pathing.

As it is now I suspect between coop and scenarios apart from the routing the AI ships take the reactions to the players are coded the same.

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