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LastRemnant

AA OP at tier 6 and above

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Seriously I hear people whining how CVs are annoying and OP yet how is it I can't anywhere near ships why been destroyed :Smile_amazed: Especially Cruisers I get shred and on top that I start paying Ranger and every match thus far my team spreads out and gets picked apart :Smile_sceptic: While the enemy team sticks together and it makes impossible to get near the group instant death with planes because of concentrated AA barrage from 6 or 7 ships :Smile_hiding: How is it possible that every enemy team I have run into with Ranger works together while my team falls apart :Smile_facepalm: If anyone has any tips that would be appreciated :Smile_popcorn:

Edited by LastRemnant

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Early in a battle it's better to use your planes to spot the enemy, give your team a view of where the enemy are deploying. After 2 or 3 minutes ships will have started to disperse more reducing the amount of overlapping AA. Try to attack lone ships or those with weaker AA. The lower tier ships in the battle will usually have weaker AA to contend with. The more you play, the more you'll learn which ships have strong AA and which have weak. As the battle progresses HE damage to ships will knock out AA mounts. This will allow you a better chance to get your planes through to do damage. You should also try to dodge the flak bursts. Flying in a straight line will mean your planes take more damage.

Never be afraid to just spot for your team if they have shots on a ship.Reality is they will probably be able to do more damage than your rockets/torps/bombs will do.

As for getting your team to work together like the enemy may do, if you crack that one let us all know! You'd probably make a fortune if you sold the secret for a $1 a time :Smile_Default: 

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T4 teaches some bad habits because AA is so weak you don't even need to dodge hardly at all. When you hit T6 you don't have the skills to mitigate flak and plane losses are felt more harshly. You need to know how to use terrain, and have effective evasive patterns to avoid the worst of it as well as keen target selection. Try flying in a pattern like the video below.

 

 

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With the exception of T4-6, AA is finally acceptable IMO after the CV Rework.  The lower tiers need a significant buff to be more on par with the higher tiers.

The whining from everyone can basically be lumped into a few categories of issues which still remain following the CV Rework:

  1. Early Match Stupidity:   With the speed of launching aircraft and the aircraft themselves, planes are in enemy spawn, spotting/attacking ships within 45 seconds of any match starting.  
  2. Spotting Stupidity:  CV planes should only spot to the mini-map.  This would resolve MOST of the CV whines in this game.
  3. Perma Spotting:  CVs sticking around DDs and spotting/attacking them until dead.  Especially lower tiers.  This would be GREATLY mitigated by fixing item 2.
  4. CV vs CV Gameplay:  CVs need to be encouraged and able to attack enemy CVs.  As it is right now, they sit practically invulnerable at the back of maps risk free.
  5. Fighter Support:  The greatest form of AA for any task force during WWII and today is fighter aircraft.  The current fighter mechanic is laughable.  

CVs are THE most OP ships in this game.  And realize, its not the damage they farm which makes them OP, it is the CVs overall impact to the game with ZERO counter to the CV itself.   People say AA is the counter.  NO, it is not.  AA can not damage or sink the CV.    The counter to a ship is the ability to take it OUT of the match completely.  To sink it. 

Cheers!!

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1 hour ago, LastRemnant said:

Seriously I hear people whining how CVs are annoying and OP yet how is it I can't anywhere near ships why been destroyed :Smile_amazed: Especially Cruisers I get shred and on top that I start paying Ranger and every match thus far my team spreads out and gets picked apart :Smile_sceptic: While the enemy team sticks together and it makes impossible to get near the group instant death with planes because of concentrated AA barrage from 6 or 7 ships :Smile_hiding: How is it possible that every enemy team I have run into with Ranger works together while my team falls apart :Smile_facepalm: If anyone has any tips that would be appreciated :Smile_popcorn:

Get better MM :Smile_trollface:

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58 minutes ago, SeaborneSumo said:

With the exception of T4-6, AA is finally acceptable IMO after the CV Rework.  The lower tiers need a significant buff to be more on par with the higher tiers.

The whining from everyone can basically be lumped into a few categories of issues which still remain following the CV Rework:

  1. Early Match Stupidity:   With the speed of launching aircraft and the aircraft themselves, planes are in enemy spawn, spotting/attacking ships within 45 seconds of any match starting.  
  2. Spotting Stupidity:  CV planes should only spot to the mini-map.  This would resolve MOST of the CV whines in this game.
  3. Perma Spotting:  CVs sticking around DDs and spotting/attacking them until dead.  Especially lower tiers.  This would be GREATLY mitigated by fixing item 2.
  4. CV vs CV Gameplay:  CVs need to be encouraged and able to attack enemy CVs.  As it is right now, they sit practically invulnerable at the back of maps risk free.
  5. Fighter Support:  The greatest form of AA for any task force during WWII and today is fighter aircraft.  The current fighter mechanic is laughable.  

CVs are THE most OP ships in this game.  And realize, its not the damage they farm which makes them OP, it is the CVs overall impact to the game with ZERO counter to the CV itself.   People say AA is the counter.  NO, it is not.  AA can not damage or sink the CV.    The counter to a ship is the ability to take it OUT of the match completely.  To sink it. 

Cheers!!

Number 4.  YOu know why they don't right?  The old way.  What happens when the CV sniped the other one?

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2 hours ago, RipNuN2 said:

T4 teaches some bad habits because AA is so weak you don't even need to dodge hardly at all. When you hit T6 you don't have the skills to mitigate flak and plane losses are felt more harshly. You need to know how to use terrain, and have effective evasive patterns to avoid the worst of it as well as keen target selection. Try flying in a pattern like the video below.

 

 

Tier 4 vs tier 3/4 teaches bad habits but against tier 5 it can be nasty and teaches good habits. I don't think that the AA at tier 6 is bad but tier 8 - tier 10 AA is brutal.

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3 hours ago, Nachoo31 said:

Number 4.  YOu know why they don't right?  The old way.  What happens when the CV sniped the other one?

If the other changes are implemented I'm ok with this.  In the end, it may decrease the CV population, which I'm also ok with.   I see this as a ship game, not a plane game.  If I wanted to play a plane game, there are much better ones out there. 

I was fine with the RTS version.  Small CV population, planes weren't in enemy spawn for several minutes, there was fighter support and AA ships were really AA ships.  But mostly, CVs, targeted CVs at first, ignoring the surface ships, which is how it should be.

 

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23 hours ago, wildgooseman said:

Early in a battle it's better to use your planes to spot the enemy, give your team a view of where the enemy are deploying. After 2 or 3 minutes ships will have started to disperse more reducing the amount of overlapping AA. Try to attack lone ships or those with weaker AA. The lower tier ships in the battle will usually have weaker AA to contend with. The more you play, the more you'll learn which ships have strong AA and which have weak. As the battle progresses HE damage to ships will knock out AA mounts. This will allow you a better chance to get your planes through to do damage. You should also try to dodge the flak bursts. Flying in a straight line will mean your planes take more damage.

Never be afraid to just spot for your team if they have shots on a ship.Reality is they will probably be able to do more damage than your rockets/torps/bombs will do.

As for getting your team to work together like the enemy may do, if you crack that one let us all know! You'd probably make a fortune if you sold the secret for a $1 a time :Smile_Default: 

Yeah I know should avoid black flak clouds but when you are getting shot by 5 to 6 ships they are everywhere nowhere to hide :Smile_unsure: I guess I will do spotting and wait for strays to hit but some times even that doesn't happen because of what I said :Smile_coin: As for teamwork some times it's no existent on my team and everyone on the other side has teamwork it's really frustrating :Smile_sceptic: But thank you for your reply I appreciated :Smile_honoring:  

23 hours ago, RipNuN2 said:

T4 teaches some bad habits because AA is so weak you don't even need to dodge hardly at all. When you hit T6 you don't have the skills to mitigate flak and plane losses are felt more harshly. You need to know how to use terrain, and have effective evasive patterns to avoid the worst of it as well as keen target selection. Try flying in a pattern like the video below.

 

 

 

I notice this but still, I would try to avoid flak as much as possible even while using langley or hosho :Smile_hiding:

 

23 hours ago, SeaborneSumo said:

With the exception of T4-6, AA is finally acceptable IMO after the CV Rework.  The lower tiers need a significant buff to be more on par with the higher tiers.

The whining from everyone can basically be lumped into a few categories of issues which still remain following the CV Rework:

  1. Early Match Stupidity:   With the speed of launching aircraft and the aircraft themselves, planes are in enemy spawn, spotting/attacking ships within 45 seconds of any match starting.  
  2. Spotting Stupidity:  CV planes should only spot to the mini-map.  This would resolve MOST of the CV whines in this game.
  3. Perma Spotting:  CVs sticking around DDs and spotting/attacking them until dead.  Especially lower tiers.  This would be GREATLY mitigated by fixing item 2.
  4. CV vs CV Gameplay:  CVs need to be encouraged and able to attack enemy CVs.  As it is right now, they sit practically invulnerable at the back of maps risk free.
  5. Fighter Support:  The greatest form of AA for any task force during WWII and today is fighter aircraft.  The current fighter mechanic is laughable.  

CVs are THE most OP ships in this game.  And realize, its not the damage they farm which makes them OP, it is the CVs overall impact to the game with ZERO counter to the CV itself.   People say AA is the counter.  NO, it is not.  AA can not damage or sink the CV.    The counter to a ship is the ability to take it OUT of the match completely.  To sink it. 

Cheers!!

Yeah but if CV planes can't get near they are only spotting if your team sucks Perma spotting the map won't do much :Smile-_tongue:

 

I am hearing the IJM carriers are good but thus far I suck with them specially dive bombers if you don't know where hit you are basically doing no damage :Smile_sceptic: They say IJN planes are faster they don't feel like it and they get shred easily :Smile_unsure: Don't know if should continue :Smile_popcorn:

22 hours ago, jager_geist said:

Get better MM :Smile_trollface:

 

You are so funny you know that :Smile_teethhappy: NOT :Smile-angry:

Edited by LastRemnant
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7 hours ago, SeaborneSumo said:

With the exception of T4-6, AA is finally acceptable IMO after the CV Rework.  The lower tiers need a significant buff to be more on par with the higher tiers.

The whining from everyone can basically be lumped into a few categories of issues which still remain following the CV Rework:

  1. Early Match Stupidity:   With the speed of launching aircraft and the aircraft themselves, planes are in enemy spawn, spotting/attacking ships within 45 seconds of any match starting.  
  2. Spotting Stupidity:  CV planes should only spot to the mini-map.  This would resolve MOST of the CV whines in this game.
  3. Perma Spotting:  CVs sticking around DDs and spotting/attacking them until dead.  Especially lower tiers.  This would be GREATLY mitigated by fixing item 2.
  4. CV vs CV Gameplay:  CVs need to be encouraged and able to attack enemy CVs.  As it is right now, they sit practically invulnerable at the back of maps risk free.
  5. Fighter Support:  The greatest form of AA for any task force during WWII and today is fighter aircraft.  The current fighter mechanic is laughable.  

CVs are THE most OP ships in this game.  And realize, its not the damage they farm which makes them OP, it is the CVs overall impact to the game with ZERO counter to the CV itself.   People say AA is the counter.  NO, it is not.  AA can not damage or sink the CV.    The counter to a ship is the ability to take it OUT of the match completely.  To sink it. 

Cheers!!

What good is a CV without its planes?  AA DOES counter the CV which relies almost SOLELY on its aircraft to do damage.  If the CV is effectively de-planed because of heavy aircraft losses, the CV is effectively de-fanged; like a deadly poisonous snake, it has no means of inflicting any real harm.  AA is incredibly OP to CV players and while we can "farm damage" our XP multipliers for that damage are so unbelievably gimped compared to other classes.  Playing a CV requires a relatively steep learning curve for this game when compared to the other classes.  Further, the fact that our XP gains are not great, means that we cannot grind as effectively as other ship classes.  I think WG did this on purpose to force CV players to really stay at a certain tier for a prolonged period of time to really understand the class and how to contribute to the team.  I actually agree with this!  However, I must say that it stands as yet another reason why CVs are so unbelievably nerfed.  As some WoWs CCs have said, it actually makes the game less fun for us to play.  When I play any other class, I hate CVs.  When I play a CV, I respect the difficulty it is to actually put up meaningful damage numbers and the skill it takes to, not only contribute to your team, but also be a major asset to your team while also doing meaningful damage.  I believe that CVs do, actually have a place in Warships.  Here is what I would propose to WG:

 

1) Nerf the hell out of rocket squadrons since DDs seem to complain the most about rocket squadrons.  Perhaps make them more RNG based or make the rockets cover a wider area where the spread isn't so tight.  As a compromise to CV players?  Rocket squads now get more HP to make them a lot more durable in a fight and when attempting to engage targets.

2)  Give each squad a time limit before the aircraft "bingo" and have to return to the carrier.  This removes the permaspotting issue that so many people have an issue with.  This would mimic the fuel that the planes need before they have to return to the carrier.  The compromise to CVs?  The aircraft had to return for fuel and weren't shot down, get a much faster "ready" time or "service" time to allow them to get back out there and in the fight quickly.  Perhaps, also a balancing thing, they can buff the speed of rocket squad aircraft.

3)  Fighters....no longer have a limit to the consumables much like Atlanta's DFAA and make the aircraft with far more HP.  But like the regular player-controlled aircraft, also have a time limit on them, much like they have now. 

4) I like the idea that in order to control the aircraft, the CV has to be within a certain range of the aircraft...this encourages the CVs to be closer to the aircraft and to move where the team goes.  It may make CV players have to pay even more attention to the minimap, but that can be said about all the other classes too.  Doing this also eliminates the early-game spotting that some people have an issue with because it forces the CV to move up a bit before launching aircraft.

5)  Here's an outside the box though too:  What if....the AA on ships, since it's very OP especially when a CV is bottom tiered, becomes less effective based on the speed of the squadrons?  What if, whether they're accelerating or decelerating, makes the AA of the ships less effective.  As it is, the engine boost works for making the squadrons speed up and slow down already!  So why not, make that an incentive for CV players to conserve their boosting until they're closer to the targets!  This would buff their squadrons while slightly nerfing AA.  The rate or percentage of accuracy of the ship's AA can also be nation-based.  For example, USN ships have more accurate AA despite the speed of the aircraft while other nations' AA is affected a bit more significantly.  Just a thought.

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