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WarKitten_1

Is IFHE worth it after adjustment?

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Greetings all,

Is IFHE better or worse or "meh" after last update?  Is it worth bothering with?

Thank you for any help.

WarKitten

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4 minutes ago, WarKitten_1 said:

Greetings all,

Is IFHE better or worse or "meh" after last update?  Is it worth bothering with?

Thank you for any help.

WarKitten

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Read lwm pinned to the top if this forum.

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17 minutes ago, WarKitten_1 said:

Greetings all,

Is IFHE better or worse or "meh" after last update?  Is it worth bothering with?

Thank you for any help.

WarKitten

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At least for 127MM caliber guns, it was a big nerf.. Not worth it...

Anything above it is optional

  • Do you want fire as your main DMG starter or
  • Raw DMG pens as your main DMG dealer then take IFHE...

For %90 of the nation DDs, AP is better then HE...

IMO, IFHE changes really changed the ships role played in the match... One thing for sure, 127MM guns are now Worthless guns to have with +2MM restriction in place.

Edited by Navalpride33
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47 minutes ago, WarKitten_1 said:

Greetings all,

Is IFHE better or worse or "meh" after last update?  Is it worth bothering with?

Thank you for any help.

WarKitten

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Depends on ship.

Mid tier DDs shoudl no longer take IFHE

Daring and Jutland should definitely forfeit IFHE

But I think light cruisers in general and the IJN gun boat DDs should keep IFHE

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It depends not only on the gun caliber but the tier of the given ship.  In short "it's complicated".

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1 minute ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

It depends not only on the gun caliber but the tier of the given ship.  In short "it's complicated".

Yeah.  USN CLs alone you can see this.

Helena in Tier VII with those 152mm guns taking IFHE will struggle getting pens still against High Tier threats.

Cleveland in Tier VIII with those very same 152mm guns taking IFHE is a great boost to her.

All by virtue of one tier difference between VII-VIII.

I imagine this impacts Tier VI CLs pretty harshly too, because they will still see the ever-popular Tier VIIIs.

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9 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Yeah.  USN CLs alone you can see this.

Helena in Tier VII with those 152mm guns taking IFHE will struggle getting pens still against High Tier threats.

Cleveland in Tier VIII with those very same 152mm guns taking IFHE is a great boost to her.

All by virtue of one tier difference between VII-VIII.

I imagine this impacts Tier VI CLs pretty harshly too, because they will still see the ever-popular Tier VIIIs.

Bingo.  This also means that if Matchmaking changes (meaning which tiers become popular) IFHE's value can go up and down depending.  Similarly, if you're playing a given ship in an environment with very specific Matchmaking (such as Ranked or Clan Battles for example), then this too can affect the value of IFHE.  The best thing to learn is the armour values at each given tier and go from there.

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They could have just reduced the fire chance but they had to make it complicated.  :D

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This IFHE change is just way too complicated.  This is not a naval simulation game, so the mechanics should be fairly simple for everyone to grasp.  And, for the most part they have been (if the player cared to learn them).  This complication was just unnecessary.

Edited by desmo_2

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1 hour ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Bingo.  This also means that if Matchmaking changes (meaning which tiers become popular) IFHE's value can go up and down depending.  Similarly, if you're playing a given ship in an environment with very specific Matchmaking (such as Ranked or Clan Battles for example), then this too can affect the value of IFHE.  The best thing to learn is the armour values at each given tier and go from there.

Shoot, right off the top of my head, Tier VI and VII Ranked it would still be required to take IFHE for CLs there.  A subtle thing people forget behind all the talk about the HE Pen values is that WG slightly upped some of the mid tier BB deck armor.  In the past tons of them had 25mm decks.  With the changes, some are now 26mm.  Some mid tier BB deck armor values.

Tier VI

NM, AZ, QE-class 26mm

Fuso 35mm :Smile_trollface:

Izmail 26-36mm

Bayern 40mm

Normandie 26-30mm

 

Tier VII

CO, Nagato, Sinop, KGV-class 26mm

Scharnhorst, Gneisenau 50mm

Nelson 32mm

Lyon 26-30mm but mostly 30mm

 

Tier VII Helena has 25mm default HE Pen.  Even from Tier VI-VII alone, she will not be able to HE Pen the deck armor of all these BBs in this list.  Not even talking about Tier VIII stuff, just mid tiers.  IFHE would pump that up to 31mm HE Pen.  Yeah, Helena is still screwed against Tier VIII even with IFHE, but with the trait, most of these Tier VI-VII BBs are now Free Real Estate for her HE spam.

It's just the returns aren't like what they were before.

Atlanta-class specifically, IFHE would give her 26mm HE Pen, so now she can more reliably damage most of these mid tier BBs.

So again, even in the constraints of Ranked where it's same tier, even for Tier VI-VII, IFHE is still mandatory.  Not unless players can deal with lots of non-pens and rely wholly on Fires.

 

But then again, you were around for when the game didn't have IFHE.  Some of the CLs still made a terror out of themselves against BBs, but the game was drastically different back in 2015-2016.

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Consistent with LWM's recommendations as to the secondaries on the Massachusetts and Georgia I removed IFHE on these and found, in Coop battles, that although I lost a lot of the direct secondary damage this has been largely compensated by greatly increased fire damage. Previously in a 4 to 5 minutes battle I would do, on the average, roughly 40K in secondary damage and about 10K in fire and have now found these numbers have been essentially reversed resulting in no real loss in overall damage. Perhaps as a statement of the obvious, during longer battles the fire damage increases significantly.

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As others have already said, it's complicated.  Way too complicated.  You basically have to analyze every ship individually, with respect to all the various ships she might face.  The change has introduced such silliness as two ships with identical guns, on identical mounts, with identical fire control systems, having different armor penetration characteristics.  

Personally, I play cruisers, and not much else, and from my perspective, after analyzing every cruiser in my port, and in view of my play preferences, I concluded that nearly all my captain builds should stay as they were.  As a GENERAL rule, it looks like, for most players and most cruisers, if you thought you needed IFHE before, you'll still want it.  If you didn't, you still don't.  The only exception I've found among cruisers is Smolensk, for which a case can, I think, be made either way.  So far, I'm going with IFHE for that one, but could still change my mind.

So...my overall impression is that what we now have is much more complicated than what we had, and is loaded with inconsistencies and ahistorical silliness.  All that, and the end result is...not much different from before.

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Do you want your light cruiser to be focused on hurting battleships or destroyers?

If the former, then get IFHE.

If the latter, Radio Location instead.

Of course, a reasonable middle ground would be to avoid taking IFHE, but still taking DE to get as many fires started as possible.

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