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Sabot_100

Worst Republique coop game ever?

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Playing T10s for certain missions. Took out my Republique and was the only BB on the team (matched by the red team). Thought this should give lots of juicy targets.

RNG completely hated me. Got off 4 salvos (some bow guns only as I had to avoid an island) at a Smollensk with shells landing all around. 2 hits on the last salvo for  about 550 damage. It sank to team fire.  Secondaries got 2 hits for about 250 on another target. Game ended at 3:29. 24 main shells fired. About 800 damage done.

:Smile_facepalm:

Edited by Sabot_100
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Sometimes RNG just kicks you in the nuts... repeatedly. 

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11 hours ago, Sabot_100 said:

Playing T10s for certain missions. Took out my Republique and was the only BB on the team (matched by the red team). Thought this should give lots of juicy targets.

RNG completely hated me. Got off 4 salvos (some bow guns only as I had to avoid an island) at a Smollensk with shells landing all around. 2 hits on the last salvo for  about 550 damage. It sank to team fire.  Secondaries got 2 hits for about 250 on another target. Game ended at 3:29. 24 main shells fired. About 800 damage done.

:Smile_facepalm:

Been there done that. :Smile_veryhappy:

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I've long said that the real enemy in Co-op isn't the red bot team.  It's your fellow players. 

If someone else is doing great on your team, that means you aren't getting much in rewards.

It also means that if someone else is doing great on your team, you in all likeliness aren't going to accomplish much in a mission you're chasing.

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On 3/26/2020 at 2:31 AM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I've long said that the real enemy in Co-op isn't the red bot team.  It's your fellow players. 

If someone else is doing great on your team, that means you aren't getting much in rewards.

It also means that if someone else is doing great on your team, you in all likeliness aren't going to accomplish much in a mission you're chasing.

Coop, with a team full of humans, is almost always more of a race than anything else. Trying to use good Random tactics will often leave you with nothing to show for the battle. On the other hand, using tactics (using the term loosely) learned in coop will get you killed fast in Randoms.

That said, things do shift a bit as the number of green bots rises. If you are the only human on the team, you really need to adjust your playstyle.

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36 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

Coop, with a team full of humans, is almost always more of a race than anything else. Trying to use good Random tactics will often leave you with nothing to show for the battle. On the other hand, using tactics (using the term loosely) learned in coop will get you killed fast in Randoms.

That said, things do shift a bit as the number of green bots rises. If you are the only human on the team, you really need to adjust your playstyle.

It gets interesting if it's a small player % for the team and they're all Cruisers which have no staying power at all, even when trying to kite at long range.  You have to be careful.  But one decent Battleship player can resolve anything.  Battleship is the only thing in this game that can go right up to a handful of bots and simultaneously engage them all, and win, most especially if it's a Mega Secondaries BB with long range (High Tier German BBs for example are kings in doing this in PVE).  A CV player could possibly hard carry but it's hard to do because of such low damage output.  It can be done but there's a lot of factors that can make them have a decent shot or be 100% useless.  For example, the last 4 bots are decent AA ships grouped together and are scooping up the caps before going after the CV.  Even playing a Tier X CV against a grouped up Montana + Republique + Des Moines + Hipper, the CV player has no shot at this.  If those ships were alone, he can do it, but he'd still be taking a lot of time to do so.  CVs have no alpha in the current system.  If their reserve of aircraft aren't high by that stage in the game, then they have no shot at all because of attrition and remaining time.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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On 3/24/2020 at 7:33 PM, Sabot_100 said:

Playing T10s for certain missions. Took out my Republique and was the only BB on the team (matched by the red team). Thought this should give lots of juicy targets.

RNG completely hated me. Got off 4 salvos (some bow guns only as I had to avoid an island) at a Smollensk with shells landing all around. 2 hits on the last salvo for  about 550 damage. It sank to team fire.  Secondaries got 2 hits for about 250 on another target. Game ended at 3:29. 24 main shells fired. About 800 damage done.

:Smile_facepalm:

  Sounds like my last few Colorado games...  Which is why I haven't been playing. 

  The other half of the equation is a) players misuse of smoke, blinding the rest of the team, and further reducing opportunities to participate in the battle.  b) superquick games- the logical conclusion of the current meta.   

  It's like the perfect storm for BB (and any other ship with a slower reload, that relies totally on it's guns to deal damage- like US CA's) play.

 WG's ridiculous bot programming, that has them chasing DD's all over the map doesn't help either.    BB's effectively spawn way out of position, because we (most of us) can't hope to keep up with the charging DD's and CL's- who pull all the bots away from us, too.    What's the point of being the tank, if nobody bothers to shoot at you- and you're stuck throwing hail Mary's at nearly out of range bots, as they're the only targets.

  I'm more than 3/4 thru the Repub legendary grind,  but rarely play it any more.  It costs too much to play in this meta.    Kinda like Musashi- you have these massive guns with all sorts of range- attached to a massive, ponderous hull with YAAAAAAA!!!!! dispersion.   It's the perfectly WRONG tool for the job, lol.    It works out, more or less, on the ships with lots of barrels- or those with all 8 on the bow.   The shotgun spray ends up landing a fair number of hits.    With Repub and Gascan, that same French dispersion leads to games like you had,  because you just have the one turret fore and aft.

  For whatever reason,  Repub seems to be more vulnerable to having games like that than Gas Can.   Not sure why.

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2 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

For example, the last 4 bots are decent AA ships grouped together and are scooping up the caps before going after the CV. 

I have noticed that the bots actually seem to be better than (most) humans at staying together. Could be special programming or just they are all reacting to the same stimulus (like the Borg like ability for ALL bots instantly switch targets to you when you become visible) so they all tend to head in the same direction anyway.

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6 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

I have noticed that the bots actually seem to be better than (most) humans at staying together. Could be special programming or just they are all reacting to the same stimulus (like the Borg like ability for ALL bots instantly switch targets to you when you become visible) so they all tend to head in the same direction anyway.

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, it depends on how close they are to begin with.  If you're doing CV you have to work fast and pick them off isolated, otherwise the mutual AA will slaughter your planes and next thing you know you're sending 1-2 plane bomber units.

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36 minutes ago, Fletcher7_1944 said:

For whatever reason,  Repub seems to be more vulnerable to having games like that than Gas Can.   Not sure why.

In the original game, I was also amazed that 2 main battery HE hits would only do 550  damage when the target is a relatively thin skinned cruiser. 

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2 hours ago, Fletcher7_1944 said:

What's the point of being the tank, if nobody bothers to shoot at you- and you're stuck throwing hail Mary's at nearly out of range bots, as they're the only targets.

There is no tanking in PVE unless you are the only ship the bots can attack.  The bots go for the lowest HP ships that are detected.

 

Case in point, I'm playing Alsace in Co-op.  I Engine Boost at the start because I want to close distance so I can use my Secondaries as another form of getting damage on top of my Main Batteries.  I'll zip past the friendly, smoke camping DD if I have to.

What I do know is that when I am spotted, I will get shot at briefly.  But I know that as soon as the Cruisers open fire, my Priority Target counter goes from 2-3 to 0, and the enemy bots go for the Cruiser players.

1.  The DD player is stealthed up or in smoke, so the bots won't see them.

2.  BBs have tons of HP, low on the AI priority list.

3.  Cruiser HP < Battleship HP, so Cruisers instantly jump to the top of the AI priority list.

 

There is no tanking.  What it is, is to go in, get your damage / kills before anybody else can.  You have to play aggressively.  If you try to stand off, you're not getting anything.  Even my Iowa-class, to include Missouri, have them Secondary Spec, to the point of taking the AAM2 in Slot 6 instead of APRM2.  Because I speed in and get anything and everything I possibly can.  Main and Secondary Battery hits.  Potential damage because I'm somewhere the bots can't ignore because I am so close.  I will zip past the smoke camping DDs and Cruisers because I want what's mine and will happily leave as little as possible to the other players of the team.

 

If you're playing a real fast BB like Iowa-class, Georgia, and the Engine Boosting-capable FR BBs, you need to close range and take what's yours.  Everyone else?

Spoiler

tenor.gif

You need to be like Debo taking stuff :Smile_teethhappy:

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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7 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

There is no tanking in PVE unless you are the only ship the bots can attack.  The bots go for the lowest HP ships that are detected.

Normally, I would agree. But I have been in games in a BB where my PT counter gets to 5 or 6 and I know I am not the lowest HP green ship in range.  At least when the pummeling starts. Still think there might be something in the bot programming that ups your target value for each ship already targeting you. Something so the bots can mimic focus fire.

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17 hours ago, Sabot_100 said:

Normally, I would agree. But I have been in games in a BB where my PT counter gets to 5 or 6 and I know I am not the lowest HP green ship in range.  At least when the pummeling starts. Still think there might be something in the bot programming that ups your target value for each ship already targeting you. Something so the bots can mimic focus fire.

The bots break their routine time to time, but in general you know they often leave the BBs alone when the squishier, lower HP ships show themselves.  I've parked my fully broadside Yamato in front of a bot Montana at 5km, because the bot switched to a player Baltimore that was around 19km away.

 

I was literally scoped in, watched the bot Montana aiming at me, then all the sudden turn its turrets 45 degrees away.  I glance at the minimap and saw why... The Baltimore player showed himself to the bots and they all tried to kill him, regardless of what was happening around them.

So I just shrugged, parked my Yammie, and just proceeded to Citadel the bot Monty casually, while it did nothing in return to me.  But too bad about the Baltimore player though :Smile_veryhappy:  USN CAs are highly allergic to 406mm+ AP shells.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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5 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I was literally scoped in, watched the bot Montana aiming at me, then all the sudden turn its turrets 45 degrees away.  I glance at the minimap and saw why... The Baltimore player showed himself to the bots and they all tried to kill him, regardless of what was happening around them.

This would be along the lines of targets getting their priority raised if they are already targeted by other bots. 

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7 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

This would be along the lines of targets getting their priority raised if they are already targeted by other bots. 

It's just real easy playing a Battleship in Co-op.  OTOH play a Cruiser without smoke and you have to be lively with the WASD keys.  Plenty of times I play BB without even breaking 50k Potential Damage in Co-op while as a Cruiser, I'm trying to dodge shells and not get crucified.

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On 3/26/2020 at 2:31 AM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

the real enemy in Co-op isn't the red bot team.  It's your fellow players. 

So true (at times).

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6 minutes ago, DominicusD said:

So true (at times).

For me it's all the time :Smile_izmena:

I'll say my greetings to other players, hit the F-key for "Good luck, everyone" and all that.  But after that, I want what's mine and everyone else that succeeds, means I'm getting less.  I'd actually prefer it if I spawned alone against multiple bots in a flank somewhere, so all the damage and kills are mine, or at the very least, get a lot for myself.  I hate it when I spawn somewhere with 2-3 other players and we're all competing at shooting / torping the same 1-2 targets we see.

 

Co-op already rewards like sh*t, so if you don't walk out with a lot done, you're not getting much at all.  Hell, it's not surprising to LOSE credits through no fault of your own because you got a bad game and got put somewhere with no targets, or 4 dudes shooting at 1 ship, and the game ends at 3 minutes.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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I got nothing much to add to this thread, because all the important bits are already covered by other, especially by Haze, lol. :Smile_hiding:

Well, I guess I've also been there and done that. It really blows when you walk with a pittance, because of a bad luck.

That being said, many of my best Coop games are from those where I have some bot team mates. In many ways, I prefer them more than the human team mates, because at least I know what they're likely going to do (bots are quite predictable) and I can adjust accordingly... and make sure that I don't fall behind or miss too many of my shots. As long as I keep up and quickly dispatch the early encounters, the match can be an easy win with great payout. Sometimes, I even prefer all bot team mates with no human other than me... lel.

On the other hand, some human players can be... quite baffling at times, let's just say, lul. :Smile_hiding:

I know some people don't like the green bots, since they seem to be weaker and dumber than the red ones, but if you give them a proper support and cover for them, they can be a great asset.

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2 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

For me it's all the time

Sure, in my experience there are those who've got it together & are clear on the objective(s) but at times there are those who just either don't care, or drunk or simply bong-loaded out of their minds.  And then there are the TK'ers.  I've come to accept my own mistakes as well, and try to learn from them ... but then there are those who just don't DGAF who just pew pew pew just for the f&4k of it. In all it's a great game w/o equal AFAIK & if the RNG-god(s) MM me with a bunch of potatoes & am handed a solid defeat, so be it.  As long as I've sent my shells true & on mark; did my best in achieving the victory, and what credits/XP earned & received are as deserving as they can be.

For me it's the simple principle: Trust what the BOTs will do (count on 'em firing on 'ya) ... not your team mates. 

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9 hours ago, Blorgh2017 said:

I got nothing much to add to this thread, because all the important bits are already covered by other, especially by Haze, lol. :Smile_hiding:

Well, I guess I've also been there and done that. It really blows when you walk with a pittance, because of a bad luck.

That being said, many of my best Coop games are from those where I have some bot team mates. In many ways, I prefer them more than the human team mates, because at least I know what they're likely going to do (bots are quite predictable) and I can adjust accordingly... and make sure that I don't fall behind or miss too many of my shots. As long as I keep up and quickly dispatch the early encounters, the match can be an easy win with great payout. Sometimes, I even prefer all bot team mates with no human other than me... lel.

On the other hand, some human players can be... quite baffling at times, let's just say, lul. :Smile_hiding:

I know some people don't like the green bots, since they seem to be weaker and dumber than the red ones, but if you give them a proper support and cover for them, they can be a great asset.

Amen.

4-5 friendly bots seems to be optimum.

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12 hours ago, Blorgh2017 said:

I know some people don't like the green bots, since they seem to be weaker and dumber than the red ones, but if you give them a proper support and cover for them, they can be a great asset.

I like having up to 5 green bots on the team. Past that it starts challenging. I have won as the only human on the team but you have to play smarter (more like randoms than the typical race for the kills that is coop). Support your bots, don't just consider them cannon fodder.

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