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HBZK100

AP Dive Bombers: The Most Useless Ordinance?

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From what I've heard, basically all carriers that can equip AP bombs are pretty much useless. I can attest to this in the Graf Zeppelin, no matter how much i use the AP bombs, my damage consistency is no where near what I can do with the torpedo bombers and even the rockets.

Is there a reason why they are so bad? I've gotten good at hitting specific parts of say a battleship with AP bombs, but the RNG just kills any chance of a consistent citadel strike.

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12 minutes ago, HBZK100 said:

Is there a reason why they are so bad? I've gotten good at hitting specific parts of say a battleship with AP bombs, but the RNG just kills any chance of a consistent citadel strike.

AP bombs have such a significant alpha strike ability that they need RNG to off-set their power.  If you were able to consistently drop 10k AP citadel strikes, those would be immensely over-powered.

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The graf zepplin ap bombs are questionable, but those in the ijn cv line are incredibly strong. Even a citadel per strike is huge. 

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Ah no wonder ok. Cause with the Graf, the max citadel damage i've done is 7000k, that's less than the HE american dive bombers.

I hope WG changes the mechanics so we have a smaller aiming ridicule, but reduce the citadel damage. Something to make the bombers more consistent.

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Graff is a meme ships. Full secondary on it for the fun, and for the rage of the poor DD trying to flank you.

 

But AP are for sure less versatile than HE, but the damage it can do is insane. Okay, against DD, CL and US BB you will do less damage than HE bombs, maybe even less than Carpet bomb. But against German BB, CA and the likes, they will steal huge chuck of life at each hit.

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They are the only weapon that has a real alpha strike capability but yeah, they suck against DD's but when you get three or four citadels on a cruiser or BB in a single drop they suddenly become quite useful.

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A.P. bombs themselves aren’t necessarily useless, but dive bombing itself is.

A needlessly complex, 100% manual attack system that still relies on an RNG mechanic that can completely screw you over, as well as basically being an invitation to getting your squad completely wiped out, (because of how you need to fly to line up the drop in the first place...)

Yeah; dive bombers themselves are worthless.

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9 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

A.P. bombs themselves aren’t necessarily useless, but dive bombing itself is.

A needlessly complex, 100% manual attack system that still relies on an RNG mechanic that can completely screw you over, as well as basically being an invitation to getting your squad completely wiped out, (because of how you need to fly to line up the drop in the first place...)

Yeah; dive bombers themselves are worthless.

Try using them on island campers.  Use the land up block AA until the last second and the fact that they are sitting still to set up your approach before you are taking as damage. 

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1 hour ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

A.P. bombs themselves aren’t necessarily useless, but dive bombing itself is.

A needlessly complex, 100% manual attack system that still relies on an RNG mechanic that can completely screw you over, as well as basically being an invitation to getting your squad completely wiped out, (because of how you need to fly to line up the drop in the first place...)

Yeah; dive bombers themselves are worthless.

Come on, Prophet.  Dive bombing is NOT complex at all for crying out loud.  

 

3 hours ago, HBZK100 said:

From what I've heard, basically all carriers that can equip AP bombs are pretty much useless. I can attest to this in the Graf Zeppelin, no matter how much i use the AP bombs, my damage consistency is no where near what I can do with the torpedo bombers and even the rockets.

Is there a reason why they are so bad? I've gotten good at hitting specific parts of say a battleship with AP bombs, but the RNG just kills any chance of a consistent citadel strike.

The reason that AP dive bombs can be "bad" depends on how much armor the target ship has at the point of impact.  Ships with light deck armor will likely be vulnerable to citadel hits, while ships with strong deck armor will bounce or shatter dive bombs.  Also, DDs are largely immune to dive bombs because any hits will almost always overpen.  And with BBs, there's always the chance of the bomb landing on the roof of a turret, which are usually very well armored.

AP dive bombs can be deadly against the right targets, if RNG blesses you and you allow the reticle to shrink all the way down.  But against the wrong targets, they can feel very weak.

HE dive bombs, OTOH, tend to be much more reliable, though they lack the devastating alpha of AP bombs on the "right" targets.

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44 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Come on, Prophet.  Dive bombing is NOT complex at all for crying out loud.

As far as I’m concerned the entire immersive carrier mechanic is needlessly complex.

But then I enjoyed using RTS, and thought that was easy, even if I wasn’t very good with it.

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4 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

As far as I’m concerned the entire immersive carrier mechanic is needlessly complex.

But then I enjoyed using RTS, and thought that was easy, even if I wasn’t very good with it.

OMG, you're nuts.  the FPS CV mechanic is brain dead simple, while the RTS CV mechanic was obscenely complex.

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5 hours ago, HBZK100 said:

From what I've heard, basically all carriers that can equip AP bombs are pretty much useless. I can attest to this in the Graf Zeppelin, no matter how much i use the AP bombs, my damage consistency is no where near what I can do with the torpedo bombers and even the rockets.

Is there a reason why they are so bad? I've gotten good at hitting specific parts of say a battleship with AP bombs, but the RNG just kills any chance of a consistent citadel strike.

Graf Zeppelin's AP bombers are largely useless except in cases where someone has wedged themselves somewhere you can't torp them, for dropping fighters and as disposable scouts. You are almost always better off using torps. GZ's straight in attack run and means she flies all the way into the AA before getting the damage reduction on the last two planes, so don't be surprised when they evaporate before you can drop.

Enterprise's AP bombers are like a giant flying slot machine, sometimes they'll do almost nothing if RNGesus didn't like you, other times you'll hit the jackpot and pretty much obliterate what you were aiming at, if it was vulnerable.

IJN AP bombers are somewhere on the weaker side of the middle between the two. More damaging than GZ's, somewhat less likely to miss large targets (GZ's round drop circle is as much a curse as it is a blessing) and you get to drop them in larger numbers, but you're still not dropping 6 of them like Enterprise.

Non-GZ dive bombers benefit from damage reduction when they're making their bombing runs. at least for the attacking flight. (GZ does technically benefit from it, but the damage is already done when it happens)

Edited by SgtBeltfed

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3 hours ago, Crucis said:

OMG, you're nuts.  the FPS CV mechanic is brain dead simple, while the RTS CV mechanic was obscenely complex.

As far as I’m concerned, the FPS is RTS manual attacks, (which I never really mastered,) gone mad.

WG took away something I at least was able to enjoy in PvE, and left me with everything I hated about RTS.

God only knows what it will take before I’ll ever forgive them, because I sure as hell don’t.

As far as that first part goes; I despise the RN light cruisers, and like things like Emerald, The Donut, and Mutsuki, so being such is pretty well established. :cap_haloween:

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4 hours ago, Crucis said:

OMG, you're nuts.  the FPS CV mechanic is brain dead simple, while the RTS CV mechanic was obscenely complex.

RTS was geared more toward multi taskers, FPS requires more single task focus.  Both were very easy for different people for different reasons.  I was more effective pre rework but that has more to do with the overall power of CV back in the rts days, for some ships there truly was no counter to CV's back then.

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50 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

God only knows what it will take before I’ll ever forgive them, because I sure as hell don’t.

WG's handling of their games has effectively bred communities of corporate distrust. Seems like a trend these days.

Edited by destawaits

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On 3/23/2020 at 11:42 AM, HBZK100 said:

From what I've heard, basically all carriers that can equip AP bombs are pretty much useless. I can attest to this in the Graf Zeppelin, no matter how much i use the AP bombs, my damage consistency is no where near what I can do with the torpedo bombers and even the rockets.

Is there a reason why they are so bad? I've gotten good at hitting specific parts of say a battleship with AP bombs, but the RNG just kills any chance of a consistent citadel strike.

Graf Zepplin isn't the best example of AP dive bombers.  The Ryujo, Shokaku, Hakuryu, and Enterprise have much better implementations of what AP bombers can do.  That said:

  • HE bombs offer greater flexibility and higher damage potential compared to AP, but work a little more against a ship's effective health rather than their actual health due to more of the damage being able to be healed back.
  • AP bombs and the potential to citadel is far more permanent damage compared to what HE can do.  The damage may appear lower, but a citadel is a reduction of a ship's actual health and not its effective health.

HE bombs break AA and smaller caliber mounts, or your entire boat if you're a DD lol.  AP bombs break engines, large turrets, and steering gears.  If you're in a battleship and get AP dive bombed, you can lose your engines pretty easily.

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My biggest issue with USN DBs is that my aiming circle seems to completely disappear when I’ve committed to the attack and my planes go up & I’m dropping blind more often than not.  Any suggestions? 

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Would be nice to be able to choose between AP or HE bombs...  kinda silly that over pens can occur when dropping on an enemy CV deck and do no damage ...   hello... the bomb went right through all decks and out the bottom of the ship? what?

This is at tier 4.... hosho .. not sure if i dropped on a hosho or a langley for that result... i'd have to review replay

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On 3/26/2020 at 11:09 PM, gbgentry said:

My biggest issue with USN DBs is that my aiming circle seems to completely disappear when I’ve committed to the attack and my planes go up & I’m dropping blind more often than not.  Any suggestions? 

I don't know if there is much of a difference in this regard between ijn and usn, but pushing your mouse forward will move you to a more overhead position so you can see your aim point better.

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2 hours ago, SKurj said:

I don't know if there is much of a difference in this regard between ijn and usn, but pushing your mouse forward will move you to a more overhead position so you can see your aim point better.

Someone else had mentioned that but thanks :cap_like:

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