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RoundsDownRange

Is Italian Smoke Broken or Something?

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Is Italian Smoke Broken or Something?

I ask this question because I have noticed an issue with it, or at least I think I have.

With no spotters in the air, no enemy ships behind me I have used my smoke to conceal me from a target only to get "Accurately Blasted" by the enemy vessel.  Even if I change speed and/or direction.  What's making this more puzzling is, I can pull up behind or into a friendly DD's smoke and still get spotted and targeted.  What's going on here?  Is anyone else having this issue?

I like the Italian ships, be they need their smoke to offset their thin armor, if it's not working as intended, then it should be fixed.

Or is there another factor at work here?  I have gone back and reviewed the spotting Machines and watched the video several times which is why I am baffled on why I am being spotted.  Just to be clear, this only seems to be happening in my Italian ships, smoke for my other nations seems to work as intended.

Any insight to this would be welcomed, I thank you in advance.

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Smoke firing penalties are a thing. I think Italians are spottable from maybe 9km or so when firing in smoke. All it would take is one DD.

 

If not spotted, it could be shells that were fired before you smoked up. Long range shots easily have 10 seconds and higher flight times. If you are firing from the rolling smoke unspotted, it still is not terribly hard to blind fire. 

 

The mechanics are all there. A smoke screen is a smoke screen, the Italians just disperses faster and puffs longer and faster. More a question of what is spotting and shooting you

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5 minutes ago, _BBaby said:

Smoke firing penalties are a thing. I think Italians are spottable from maybe 9km or so when firing in smoke. All it would take is one DD.

 

If not spotted, it could be shells that were fired before you smoked up. Long range shots easily have 10 seconds and higher flight times. If you are firing from the rolling smoke unspotted, it still is not terribly hard to blind fire. 

 

The mechanics are all there. A smoke screen is a smoke screen, the Italians just disperses faster and puffs longer and faster. More a question of what is spotting and shooting you

BB's and CA's  The matches only had 1 DD and he was spotted on the far side of the map.

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Check your "Detectability after Firing Main Guns in Smoke". It is high for these ships. The BRINDISI is 9.7 km. AMALFI is 8.7 km. I think the lost is the T5.

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20 minutes ago, RoundsDownRange said:

Is Italian Smoke Broken or Something?

I ask this question because I have noticed an issue with it, or at least I think I have.

With no spotters in the air, no enemy ships behind me I have used my smoke to conceal me from a target only to get "Accurately Blasted" by the enemy vessel.  Even if I change speed and/or direction.  What's making this more puzzling is, I can pull up behind or into a friendly DD's smoke and still get spotted and targeted.  What's going on here?  Is anyone else having this issue?

I like the Italian ships, be they need their smoke to offset their thin armor, if it's not working as intended, then it should be fixed.

Or is there another factor at work here?  I have gone back and reviewed the spotting Machines and watched the video several times which is why I am baffled on why I am being spotted.  Just to be clear, this only seems to be happening in my Italian ships, smoke for my other nations seems to work as intended.

Any insight to this would be welcomed, I thank you in advance.

Working as intended. You pretty much only use their smoke to break contact, not used to sit in and fire.

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1 minute ago, NailToe said:

Check your "Detectability after Firing Main Guns in Smoke". It is high for these ships. The BRINDISI is 9.7 km. AMALFI is 8.7 km. I think the lost is the T5.

Ok, will do.  Just seems odd, it's like not having it at all

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3 minutes ago, _BBaby said:

Smoke firing penalties are a thing. I think Italians are spottable from maybe 9km or so when firing in smoke. All it would take is one DD.

 

If not spotted, it could be shells that were fired before you smoked up. Long range shots easily have 10 seconds and higher flight times. If you are firing from the rolling smoke unspotted, it still is not terribly hard to blind fire. 

 

The mechanics are all there. A smoke screen is a smoke screen, the Italians just disperses faster and puffs longer and faster. More a question of what is spotting and shooting you

To add to the above, the RM cruisers are actually quite easy to hit in smoke, they're big targets in a little cloud, all you have to do is lead the edge of the smoke, plus they have a larger smoke firing penalty due to having 8 inch guns, and I think the entire line has a higher than normal penalty, as well.

 

A thing to remember, while their smoke can, under the exact right circumstances, be used offensively, its primary purpose is defensive, to allow you to disengage. They have the penalty they do to encourage you to use their smoke correctly, and because allowing those ships with their ammo type to just sit in smoke and pew pew everyone in the match to death would be brokenly OP and unfair. 

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1 minute ago, KrasnyKrimzonOktyabrskya said:

To add to the above, the RM cruisers are actually quite easy to hit in smoke, they're big targets in a little cloud, all you have to do is lead the edge of the smoke, plus they have a larger smoke firing penalty due to having 8 inch guns, and I think the entire line has a higher than normal penalty, as well.

 

A thing to remember, while their smoke can, under the exact right circumstances, be used offensively, its primary purpose is defensive, to allow you to disengage. They have the penalty they do to encourage you to use their smoke correctly, and because allowing those ships with their ammo type to just sit in smoke and pew pew everyone in the match to death would be brokenly OP and unfair. 

Ok, thanks for the input.

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The Italian cruisers have "firing in smoke" detection ranges so high that it makes the smoke an entirely different thing.

 

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either someone smoke spotted you (Italian heavy cruisers range from 8.3km at Trento to 9.9km at Venezia when firing from smoke) or you found someone who is really, really good at blind firing into smokescreens, or before you smoke up, something fired its guns when you were spotted, but landed after you went unspotted.

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42 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

The Italian cruisers have "firing in smoke" detection ranges so high that it makes the smoke an entirely different thing.

 

This, and the higher tier Italian cruisers are big targets. 

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1 hour ago, RoundsDownRange said:

Ok, will do.  Just seems odd, it's like not having it at all

One other thing...

If u are sitting in your smoke & firing, there are 2 pretty effective techniques for hitting a ship in smoke.

- if a enemy has a spotter aircraft, better players and many who play competitive formats can be quite good at hitting a cruiser sitting in smoke by seeing where your shells appear from in the elevated spotter view.

- this can also be coupled w/ the last position indicator from the minimap - players can often use that to target someone who has dropped off of detect if u are near your last spotted indicator.

 

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Yeah, Italian smoke is all but useless.

If you fire then use smoke - AND STAY INSIDE IT THE WHOLE TIME - you still have the spotting penalty applied. It's absolute crap.

I could see if you fired from inside the smoke, but to pop smoke after firing and stay in it AND STILL BE SPOTTED WHILE NOT FIRING  - that's garbage coding.

Just one more nail in Italian ship's coffins. 

Edited by capncrunch21

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5 minutes ago, capncrunch21 said:

Yeah, Italian smoke is all but useless.

If you fire then use smoke - AND STAY INSIDE IT THE WHOLE TIME - you still have the spotting penalty applied. It's absolute crap.

I could see if you fired from inside the smoke, but to pop smoke after firing and stay in it AND STILL BE SPOTTED WHILE NOT FIRING  - that's garbage coding.

Just one more nail in Italian ship's coffins. 

not....really? your smoke on the italians is not for you to sit in and farm 8 inch gun hits. its a gtfo card to vanish if your in a though spot. and also thats how all smoke firing penalties work. the bigger the gun, the bigger the penalty.

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11 minutes ago, capncrunch21 said:

Yeah, Italian smoke is all but useless.

No dude, it is just italian style, made for disengaging and running away to mama. I read somewhere their other gimmick was switching sides if your team was losing, but it never made past testing, it was OP.

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52 minutes ago, capncrunch21 said:

Yeah, Italian smoke is all but useless.

If you fire then use smoke - AND STAY INSIDE IT THE WHOLE TIME - you still have the spotting penalty applied. It's absolute crap.

I could see if you fired from inside the smoke, but to pop smoke after firing and stay in it AND STILL BE SPOTTED WHILE NOT FIRING  - that's garbage coding.

Just one more nail in Italian ship's coffins. 

It's not useless.  If you're being spotted all the time after firing, then you're too close to your target or some other enemy ship.

Furthermore, most often, the best use for Italian smoke is to use it while you're NOT under the gun bloom penalty as a tool to escape from being too close to the enemy and get to a safer distance.  That is a far from useless tool to have in the toolbox.

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2 hours ago, TobTorp said:

not....really? your smoke on the italians is not for you to sit in and farm 8 inch gun hits. its a gtfo card to vanish if your in a though spot. and also thats how all smoke firing penalties work. the bigger the gun, the bigger the penalty.

 

2 hours ago, Crucis said:

It's not useless.  If you're being spotted all the time after firing, then you're too close to your target or some other enemy ship.

Furthermore, most often, the best use for Italian smoke is to use it while you're NOT under the gun bloom penalty as a tool to escape from being too close to the enemy and get to a safer distance.  That is a far from useless tool to have in the toolbox.

HAHAAHA!

So I'm getting hammered by the reds.... I turn tail. While retreating I take a parting shot and THEN hit smoke to disengage. Instead of disappearing into the smoke NO LONGER FIRING, I am lit up like a neon sign because of gun bloom still persisting IN THE NEW SMOKE saying HERE I AM!!!!! KEEP FIRING AT ME BECAUSE THIS SMOKE IS USELESS. Yeah, the only use for Italian smoke is a to go with the burning wreckage that will shortly be your ship.

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It's a really bad gimmick and poor design. The smoke firing bloom is damn near its detection range. Take... "the Smolensk" it gets a 5.9km smoke firing range with 3x the reload and Hydro and torps. All the smoke for Italy is good for is escaping or running across an open area quickly.

It does have value but the bloom in smoke should be cut to at least 7km

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8 minutes ago, capncrunch21 said:

 

HAHAAHA!

So I'm getting hammered by the reds.... I turn tail. While retreating I take a parting shot and THEN hit smoke to disengage. Instead of disappearing into the smoke NO LONGER FIRING, I am lit up like a neon sign because of gun bloom still persisting IN THE NEW SMOKE saying HERE I AM!!!!! KEEP FIRING AT ME BECAUSE THIS SMOKE IS USELESS. Yeah, the only use for Italian smoke is a to go with the burning wreckage that will shortly be your ship.

... Gun bloom last for the full 20 secs, it doesn't matter if new smoke or old smoke. That you can't handle a ship class doesn't mean it's bad, it means your bad at it. 

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19 minutes ago, capncrunch21 said:

 

HAHAAHA!

So I'm getting hammered by the reds.... I turn tail. While retreating I take a parting shot and THEN hit smoke to disengage. Instead of disappearing into the smoke NO LONGER FIRING, I am lit up like a neon sign because of gun bloom still persisting IN THE NEW SMOKE saying HERE I AM!!!!! KEEP FIRING AT ME BECAUSE THIS SMOKE IS USELESS. Yeah, the only use for Italian smoke is a to go with the burning wreckage that will shortly be your ship.

So, you fired your guns and are under the gun bloom penalty when you pop your smoke, and you blame the smoke for your incompetence?  :Smile_facepalm:

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3 hours ago, capncrunch21 said:

Yeah, Italian smoke is all but useless.

If you fire then use smoke - AND STAY INSIDE IT THE WHOLE TIME - you still have the spotting penalty applied. It's absolute crap.

Italian smoke has an advantage that most smoke doesn't have.  It conceals you at high speed, where other smoke only puffs for a few seconds and only conceals you while puffing if you are at 1/4 speed or less.  You can often outrun your smoke in most ships.  In the Italian ships, you just pop smoke and turn away all while invisible as long as you don't fire with a ship within your high concealment range.  As long as you use the ship at medium to long range where it is meant to be used, the smoke works well to disappear if you become a target. That gives you the ability to fire at ships in open water and then use smoke to disappear once they take notice and decide to target you. 

Italian smoke is just different than most smoke that players are used to.  It isn't a sitting smoke.  It's a running smoke.

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Italian smoke is extremely powerfull on a plateform that sails at 36-37kts and with decent armour.

 

Venezia is such a strong ship, it's insane

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21 hours ago, tfcas119 said:

either someone smoke spotted you (Italian heavy cruisers range from 8.3km at Trento to 9.9km at Venezia when firing from smoke) or you found someone who is really, really good at blind firing into smokescreens, or before you smoke up, something fired its guns when you were spotted, but landed after you went unspotted.

This is not a one time thing, it was every time I played the ships.  Fighting Humans or BOTs did not matter

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19 hours ago, TobTorp said:

not....really? your smoke on the italians is not for you to sit in and farm 8 inch gun hits. its a gtfo card to vanish if your in a though spot. and also thats how all smoke firing penalties work. the bigger the gun, the bigger the penalty.

Except I was not firing, it was popped to to avoid detection and move to a better location.  A lot of folks here are reading more into this than need be.

There was no Aircraft involved, there was no DDs involved.  This was all taking place during first contact with the enemy at the start of the game between the Italian ship and enemy Cruisers and Battleships.

So I think some have stated the Italian smoke is weaker and the ships bigger, so this may account for it, if so, than that stinks.  If not then there is still the puzzle to be solved.  Because I don't have this issue with any other nation that uses smoke.

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On 3/23/2020 at 11:29 AM, RoundsDownRange said:

Ok, will do.  Just seems odd, it's like not having it at all 

Not really, the gas escaping from the barrels disperses causing the ship to be seen. 

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