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Lightninger

Scenarios, Economy Nerf Inbound, Voice Your Thoughts!!

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Voice your thoughts, especially if you enjoy playing Scenarios. This incoming economy nerf is not going to be good and will basically spell the beginning of the end of the Scenario game mode. Normally I wait until stuff like this goes live, but we already have information confirming this and we should make our voices heard now before it comes to live.

 

If you haven't seen my previous video on the State of Scenarios, which is somewhat related to this, here is it for you to watch as well.

 

If you think that this isn't a big deal, you can choose to use this as you want. Hoperations isn't that well known a WoWs discord and most of the time, the only thing we do other than event stuff like Space and Halloween, we run divisions for Scenarios. That's all we do, and you can see what the numbers for this Discord server is.

image.png.edc778c36228dbd78c927b7f996932d3.png

@Hapa_Fodder @turbo007 and especially @Kalvothe You wanted to see the evidence of what is going on with the changes to economy for Scenarios so here it is and it looks like it was planned, not accidental.

Edit: Someone changed my title? Restored it

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Yet another reason to continue and extend my hiatus from this game. Came to check what's new over the past couple weeks and this is the first thing I see. 

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I       couldn't        listen      for more          than          30       seconds.....

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Pulling ops and nerfing BXP isn't what dissuades me from playing ops; it's the fact that in the last year, the quality of random pickup teams has gone through the floor. I can reasonably expect to LOSE most scenarios when I go in with random pickups now, and I'm scared to load up on flags and camo there any more. Nor can I always be on at a time when Hoperations are running. 

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22 minutes ago, Lightninger said:

Voice your thoughts, especially if you enjoy playing Scenarios. This incoming economy nerf is not going to be good and will basically spell the beginning of the end of the Scenario game mode. Normally I wait until stuff like this goes live, but we already have information confirming this and we should make our voices heard now before it comes to live.

Thanks for bringing this to NA. It's a long 5-page EU thread but was a non-existent discussion on NA.

Unfortunately for the players who enjoy Scenarios, I doubt there will be much complaining post-release with nerfed BXP earnings.

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26 minutes ago, Lightninger said:

This incoming economy nerf is

long overdue.

And I hope it happens sooner rather than later;

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Just now, LoveBote said:

long overdue.

And I hope it happens sooner rather than later;

I have long suggested to the leadership that they should be open about these changes. Hiding them when they are obvious is incompetent. We all know what this game is and we still play it.

I bet being honest would not lose WG many customers at all.

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1 hour ago, LoveBote said:

long overdue.

And I hope it happens sooner rather than later;

Why should it, beyond the miserly and spiteful stance of "Only Randoms should have meaningful economy"?  Or are you doing yet another trolling post of dubious at best merit?

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Just now, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

I have long suggested to the leadership that they should be open about these changes. Hiding them when they are obvious is incompetent. We all know what this game is and we still play it.

I bet being honest would not lose WG many customers at all.

The playerbase has proven to be astonishingly resilient, which is both a good and bad thing. It means it is open to abuse, but also means it can ride out rough but necessary changes. Glass half full/empty, take your pick.

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Just now, landcollector said:

Why should it, beyond the miserly and spiteful stance of "Only Randoms should have meaningful economy"?  Or are you doing yet another trolling post of dubious at best merit?

Do you feel provoked every time a person disagrees? Disagreement does not equate to trolling.

No game mode should have an economy which supports zero effort, all game modes should require a combination of effort, understanding of game mechanics, and accomplishment to earn rewards. PVE is currently a shortcut for those who cannot be bothered.

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7 minutes ago, LoveBote said:

long overdue.

And I hope it happens sooner rather than later;

Not that familiar with Narai.

Were players farming credits and XP from it that were comparable to PvP?

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Very large straw on the back of the uninstall camel.

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1 minute ago, Sumseaman said:

Not that familiar with Narai.

Were players farming credits and XP from it that were comparable to PvP?

For the most part, you could almost ALWAYS pull more XP, FXP and credits than in PvP. NO, I am not saying ALWAYS, but if I needed FXP or credits, I would just play operations for a day... so overall? Yes.

Mahalo,

-Hapa

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1 minute ago, LoveBote said:

Do you feel provoked every time a person disagrees? Disagreement does not equate to trolling.

No game mode should have an economy which supports zero effort, all game modes should require a combination of effort, understanding of game mechanics, and accomplishment to earn rewards. PVE is currently a shortcut for those who cannot be bothered.

ah, but if you understand game mechanics, you can really rack up a ton of XP and stuff in operations.

And since WG took out the randomness of their AI spawning scripts in operations, it's even easier to properly exploit game mechanics.

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1 minute ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

For the most part, you could almost ALWAYS pull more XP, FXP and credits than in PvP. NO, I am not saying ALWAYS, but if I needed FXP or credits, I would just play operations for a day... so overall? Yes.

Mahalo,

-Hapa

Hmm perhaps.

As @Ensign_Cthulhusaid though it seems these days youre just as likely to fail a scenario these days as to lose in a random! 

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8 minutes ago, Sumseaman said:

Not that familiar with Narai.

Were players farming credits and XP from it that were comparable to PvP?

PVE Ops are not used as extensively as they used to be to farm credits and XP, but they are still a short cut for some, evidently. I cannot reply to you objectively on this, I have no way of knowing exactly what the influence of OPs onthe player economy is. Ask WG for that.

But, I have plenty of anecdotal experiences, and commentaries from other players, that the learnable rote like nature of Scenarios allowed a player to set up a dedicated ship with the perfect routine, to guarantee results. Which of course, is contrary to the entire philosphy of WOWS "Let's Battle" random mayhem (or infinite variation on a theme).

There are excellent games for PVE coop, which make a virtue of this, while injecting randomness and much tougher gameplay, such as Vermintide. Better games for those that need a daily dose of bot bashing.

3 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

And since WG took out the randomness of their AI spawning scripts in operations, it's even easier to properly exploit game mechanics.

I have always wondered why WG refuses to implement decent bot AI. I have assumed (perhaps wrongly?) it is to do with server load. But without good bot AI, Coop is a something of a joke.

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1 minute ago, LoveBote said:

The playerbase has proven to be astonishingly resilient, which is both a good and bad thing. It means it is open to abuse, but also means it can ride out rough but necessary changes. Glass half full/empty, take your pick.

Oh that depends on what the tipping point might be.

It could be something simple like this and add the current situation of the world and people's perspectives will change.

It could be players will say, I just wanted to have fun and if I am not having fun anymore, then I will find it elsewhere.

There is going to be stiff competition down the road and most of those games are not in fact, warships related.

Life is soberingly being placed center stage and it's message is clear.

Don't have a bad time in a game.

Find something that makes you happy.

Whether changes are being discussed by WG behind closed doors or not. It won't matter. If the game starts to be a chore and has no fun factor, then only the players that hold out will be the optimistic ones.

The rest will stop playing and it's very easy to steer those players away from warships with something shiney and fun.

I think we already lost the FTP players as a whole. The PTW and largely sentimental ones remain. The"investors" for sure, remain.

But for how much longer.

Randoms is crappy. And thinking that nudging players against their will works is dangerous.

You don't mess with free will. It will bite you in the backside big time.

WG needs to be careful. Just because one server is happy with it and it's good for the business does not mean they can apply the same thing to another server. Did WG not realize how many left these "popular" servers in the first place?

So sail in to these interesting waters WG, but you may find yourself attacked by pirates and they are going to do more than pillage.

This is a golden opportunity to do great WG while everyone is home. Don't blow it by slapping the player base.

Other games are doing some interesting things during this period and none of them are insincere.

Now I know it's being discussed and is early to react, but since it is out there, well WG will just have to get the feedback and plug it in to that conversation.

So, here is the feedback. Others have left some too. Consider it and it's going to mean a big deal in the future of this game.

<O

 

 

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Operations are a nice change of pace now and then.  I hope they don't nerf the economy to the point that it actually costs resources to play if you have a mediocre game.  I'd like to see some higher tier operations.  Maybe let players select between a hard version and an easy version.  The hard one gives you more resources for doing well, but has a lot more randomness thrown into the programming.  So you don't know exactly what ships you'll be up against, or exactly when or where they'll show up.  Let the operation follow a general outline, so you can have a plan.  But not be so predictable that you always know exactly when to have your guns trained to starboard with AP loaded.  Maybe this time it will be a group of DDs that appear to port.

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48 minutes ago, HooplaJones said:

I       couldn't        listen      for more          than          30       seconds.....

Captain Kirk school of Oratory Excellence.

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25 minutes ago, Sumseaman said:

Were players farming credits and XP from it that were comparable to PvP?

If you learned the Narai op until you could do it backwards and then did it as a four-ship division with others of the same stripe, with everyone's roles and the ships they were taking agreed in advance, it was possible for a particular player assigned a particular route to make seriously good randoms-level base XP with it on a repeated, reliable basis. Being assigned to go kill all the transports and their DD escort, for example, would always have you doing well, and with the same amount of potential BXP on the table to share between fewer people, everyone else didn't exactly starve by comparison.

It doesn't even begin to approach the heights you can reach if you have a God-level carry battle in Randoms, but the ability to pick your team, optimize the ships you bring in and then lather-rinse-repeat until your fingers are numb and your eyeballs fall out is more than adequate compensation.

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu
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8 minutes ago, zubalkabir said:

Operations are a nice change of pace now and then.  I hope they don't nerf the economy to the point that it actually costs resources to play if you have a mediocre game.  I'd like to see some higher tier operations.  Maybe let players select between a hard version and an easy version.  The hard one gives you more resources for doing well, but has a lot more randomness thrown into the programming.  So you don't know exactly what ships you'll be up against, or exactly when or where they'll show up.  Let the operation follow a general outline, so you can have a plan.  But not be so predictable that you always know exactly when to have your guns trained to starboard with AP loaded.  Maybe this time it will be a group of DDs that appear to port.

For sure there are ways to make this work.

I am just boggling at the decision to not communicate to the players...and expecting the response to go down easily.

Im already seeing panic anger from the staff on this...despite it having been communicated that touching the econ balance would provoke that response.

There is a serious 'out of touch with reality' vibe that comes out of WG senior leadership.

Actions have consequences. If you want different playerbase responses, you need to change your actions.

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3 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

If you learned the Narai op until you could do it backwards and then did it as a four-ship division with others of the same stripe, with everyone's roles and the ships they were taking agreed in advance, it was possible for a particular player assigned a particular route to make seriously good randoms-level base XP with it on a repeated, reliable basis. Being assigned to go kill all the transports and their DD escort, for example, would always have you doing well, and with the same amount of potential BXP on the table to share between fewer people, everyone else didn't exactly starve by comparison.

It doesn't even begin to approach the heights you can reach if you have a God-level carry battle in Randoms, but the ability to pick your team, optimize the ships you bring in and then lather-rinse-repeat until your fingers are numb and your eyeballs fall out is more than adequate compensation.

And that is the thing that people aren't thinking about. When the operations first came out, I would run div's with my old clan, we would rotate duties and run them over the course of like 2 hours and you could come away with LITERALLY tens of thousands of FXP and MILLIONS of credits....  And I may be mistaken but this was before the "special" economic signals even were out...

-Hapa

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1 minute ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

And that is the thing that people aren't thinking about. When the operations first came out, I would run div's with my old clan, we would rotate duties and run them over the course of like 2 hours and you could come away with LITERALLY tens of thousands of FXP and MILLIONS of credits....  And I may be mistaken but this was before the "special" economic signals even were out...

-Hapa

Why wasnt this pitch made in February when the operation was removed?

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1 minute ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

For sure there are ways to make this work.

I am just boggling at the decision to not communicate to the players...and expecting the response to go down easily.

Im already seeing panic anger from the staff on this...despite it having been communicated that touching the econ balance would provoke that response.

There is a serious 'out of touch with reality' vibe that comes out of WG senior leadership.

Actions have consequences. If you want different playerbase responses, you need to change your actions.

What staff is "panicking or angry" from this? Also, this PTS is still in phase one, you will still have a phase two and then weeks before it goes live, if if goes live in the next update. We don't always communicate ALL the changes coming the moment we release an update, but the information IS released prior to updates.

-Hapa

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2 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Why wasnt this pitch made in February when the operation was removed?

They were pulled in Feb because the operation was crashing the client for a lot of players. That part was fixed. We have always talked about how the operations were being worked on, this is not new. Development and content changes don't just happen overnight. It takes months often to do major and often times minor changes to game mechanics. This too has been stated before.

-Hapa 

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