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IpityU

a simple tabe to show why CV is a problem as is

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                          CV          BB         

Team 1        GOOD      BAD   (player skill, where BAD does not mean the same as stupid)

Team 2        BAD       GOOD

Team 1 WIN

--------------------------------------------------------------

                          CV          CA   

Team 1        GOOD      BAD

Team 2        BAD       GOOD

Team 1 WIN

--------------------------------------------------------------

                          CV          DD 

Team 1        GOOD      BAD

Team 2        BAD       GOOD

Team 1 WIN

--------------------------------------------------------------

                   

                          CV          BB         CA

Team 1        GOOD      BAD      BAD

Team 2        BAD       GOOD    GOOD

Team 1 WIN

--------------------------------------------------------------

                          CV          CA       DD

Team 1        GOOD      BAD     BAD

Team 2        BAD       GOOD   GOOD

Team 1 WIN

--------------------------------------------------------------

                          CV          DD      CA        BB

Team 1        GOOD      BAD      BAD     BAD

Team 2        BAD       GOOD    GOOD  GOOD

Team 1 WIN

--------------------------------------------------------------

 

In other words - the skill of the CV is the primary determiner of a battle.  Enough to almost completely invalidate the skill of other players.  I challenge any major clan to test this theory (assuming their 'bad' players don't take offense)

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4 minutes ago, IpityU said:

                          CV          BB         

Team 1        GOOD      BAD   (player skill, where BAD does not mean the same as stupid)

Team 2        BAD       GOOD

Team 1 WIN

--------------------------------------------------------------

                          CV          CA   

Team 1        GOOD      BAD

Team 2        BAD       GOOD

Team 1 WIN

--------------------------------------------------------------

                          CV          DD 

Team 1        GOOD      BAD

Team 2        BAD       GOOD

Team 1 WIN

--------------------------------------------------------------

                   

                          CV          BB         CA

Team 1        GOOD      BAD      BAD

Team 2        BAD       GOOD    GOOD

Team 1 WIN

--------------------------------------------------------------

                          CV          CA       DD

Team 1        GOOD      BAD     BAD

Team 2        BAD       GOOD   GOOD

Team 1 WIN

--------------------------------------------------------------

                          CV          DD      CA        BB

Team 1        GOOD      BAD      BAD     BAD

Team 2        BAD       GOOD    GOOD  GOOD

Team 1 WIN

--------------------------------------------------------------

 

In other words - the skill of the CV is the primary determiner of a battle.  Enough to almost completely invalidate the skill of other players.  I challenge any major clan to test this theory (assuming their 'bad' players don't take offense)

This is inaccurate to say the least.  I have (as a 60%+) saipan captain been in a double cv top tier match (other cv on my team was just as good as me) against 2 enemy CV's that did not do anything productive but their team played well and our team potatoes.  End result was myself and other cv at the top of a loosing match and the two enemy CV at the bottom of the winning team.

Last night in my Ark Royal,  enemy cv rushed up and died immediately,  enemy team played smart, stacked as and got into position and proceeded to wreck the potatoes on my team that lemming trained into the trap set up by the enemies.  My team still tried to blame me for the loss however I got compliments from the enemy team.  I was top of the xp list.

Until you and everyone else stops blaming your shortcomings on ships you have no control over and focus on how you could have played better/differently,  your situation will remain the same.  Fix it or keep regurgitating this nonsense,  the choice is yours.

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CV's are in current state, dependent on their team on how much they are able to contribute and or carry.

They are like a quarterback in football. If their front offensive line completely falls apart. They are chased and tackled without being able to throw or run.

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51 minutes ago, IpityU said:

                          CV          BB         

Team 1        GOOD      BAD   (player skill, where BAD does not mean the same as stupid)

Team 2        BAD       GOOD

Team 1 WIN

--------------------------------------------------------------

                          CV          CA   

Team 1        GOOD      BAD

Team 2        BAD       GOOD

Team 1 WIN

--------------------------------------------------------------

                          CV          DD 

Team 1        GOOD      BAD

Team 2        BAD       GOOD

Team 1 WIN

--------------------------------------------------------------

                   

                          CV          BB         CA

Team 1        GOOD      BAD      BAD

Team 2        BAD       GOOD    GOOD

Team 1 WIN

--------------------------------------------------------------

                          CV          CA       DD

Team 1        GOOD      BAD     BAD

Team 2        BAD       GOOD   GOOD

Team 1 WIN

--------------------------------------------------------------

                          CV          DD      CA        BB

Team 1        GOOD      BAD      BAD     BAD

Team 2        BAD       GOOD    GOOD  GOOD

Team 1 WIN

--------------------------------------------------------------

 

In other words - the skill of the CV is the primary determiner of a battle.  Enough to almost completely invalidate the skill of other players.  I challenge any major clan to test this theory (assuming their 'bad' players don't take offense)

If you didn't set this up in a training room, using only known players on your clan, and provide a replay...

I'm calling complete fiction.
Need the replay to eliminate conformational bias.  I want to see how BAD and how GOOD the CV players are.

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34 minutes ago, Capt_Ahab1776 said:

CV's are in current state, dependent on their team on how much they are able to contribute and or carry.

They are like a quarterback in football. If their front offensive line completely falls apart. They are chased and tackled without being able to throw or run.

They are dependent on their team to live long enough for the cv to have time to do damage. 

They are dependent on their team to stick together and stack AA to protect themselves from the enemy cv.

They are dependent on their team to understand that flying all the way across the map to drop fighters is a waste of time and resources.

They are dependent on the enemy team not knowing or following any of the above stated.

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OP was incapable of showing any tables where both CVs were good or bad and what the outcome would be in each scenario.

There are more likely scenarios where both CVs are bad than anything.

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This might have been true for the RTS CVs but certainly not now.

Basically you are saying that a CV in a team of bad players can carry the game and that is simply not true.  A good CV can have a lot of impact and a bad CV can really let a team down, but I don't think this is exclusive to CVs.

Just like with Smolensk, too many people confuse "annoying" and "unfunny to play against" as being  "overpowered."

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Tomorrow class, we compare apples and oranges.

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2 hours ago, HallaSnackbar said:

This is inaccurate to say the least.  I have (as a 60%+) saipan captain been in a double cv top tier match (other cv on my team was just as good as me) against 2 enemy CV's that did not do anything productive but their team played well and our team potatoes.  End result was myself and other cv at the top of a loosing match and the two enemy CV at the bottom of the winning team.

Last night in my Ark Royal,  enemy cv rushed up and died immediately,  enemy team played smart, stacked as and got into position and proceeded to wreck the potatoes on my team that lemming trained into the trap set up by the enemies.  My team still tried to blame me for the loss however I got compliments from the enemy team.  I was top of the xp list.

Until you and everyone else stops blaming your shortcomings on ships you have no control over and focus on how you could have played better/differently,  your situation will remain the same.  Fix it or keep regurgitating this nonsense,  the choice is yours.

A good CV player can wreck destroyers. 

A great cv player can control the vision.

A bad team just can't take advantage of what a CV provides.

....

Now let's put a little example here.

A destroyer spots a cap. Is contesting and lighten up enemy destroyer. 

You have 5 ships behind you within 8 km and they have clear shots on enemy destroyer. 

But, they insist on shooting a Kremlin 14 km away....

So good play by your destroyer,  but bad team follow.

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According to your logic my damn near 70k average damage, 7.51 planes downed (the average is 5 so 50% more), a ship destroyed every battle (average is less than one) Lexington should have a 60+ percent win rate.

News flash - My Lexington has a 47% winrate, and the average is 48%. I deal 40% more  damage than other players, I shoot down 50% more planes than other players, and I kill something every single battle I'm in compared to 3/4 battles other players kill things. So how is it when I am killing things, dealing more damage than normal players, both of which really help the team, and actually keeping my team better defended than other players - do I have a LOWER winrate than average players who literally do half of what I do?

Do CV's have an impact and need some nerfs - yes. But do they determine a game? Hell no, not under the rework. Cause unless MM is constantly somehow putting be against an even better player than I am, there is no way I should have these kinds of stats and a sub 50% let alone sub average WR in my Lexington unless the issue is that I am getting TEAMS that can't win even with better air defense and more damage than average from the CV they have. And is why WR alone is a bull stat to judge on because every match has 11 other players on their team and 'law of averages' does not apply the way people want to think it does.

A carry can help a team or hurt a team just as much as any ships - difference is that now they can't carry 11 potatoes same as they used to, namely by removing the entirety of the red teams strike capability. Which hey - even under RTS I destroyed the entirety of a red CV's compliment of planes in under 4 minutes and STILL had teams lose. 

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CV's totally suck now,,, i lost every plane on my CV to one lone DD and never got a plane close enough to strike because the damn dd had some much op AA!   Only AA from the dd nothing else around.  Fix the damn game!

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Nope cv cannot carry a team of full potato  cv need long match time to actually make good damage generally, they just dont have the alpha and the plane to farm damage fast enough to carry potato

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Yeah if your team sucks I CV it's a giant target and a CV alone can't do everything by itself :Smile_hiding: A lot of players whining about CVs should try playing CVs with a bad team see how far you get :Smile_teethhappy: 

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