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LunchCutter

What are DD AP shells actually good for?

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Not having much fun with my Shiratsuyus guns lately. A early game I finished with 60+ hits for 3k damage. Firing HE mainly with a 10% pen rate. Decided in my last game to try AP. Anyway towards the end a enemy Fletcher popped up at close range so I bought my sluggish guns to bear on him, fired multiple broadsides at him with the AP,  ricochet after ricochet... (20 mm of thin armour is very effective at bouncing 127mm shells apparently) The hits that did pen did a woeful 200 points of damage. Thankfully a friendly ship finished him off just in time but I finished up with 16 hits on him for a comical 1.5k damage. Makes me wonder what is the point of AP shells on DDs?? If they cannot pen a rice paper thin DD what good are they?

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DD AP can be effective at close range on broadside cruisers. Or, if you have high tier RU DD guns, about 10km on broadside BB superstructure and upper belt. close range broadside BB bow/stern can also be pen by DD AP. So the key word here is close range (<8km) and broadside

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For penetrating up to 130mm of armor depending on caliber. 

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What are DD AP shells actually good for?....

Suppositories

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59 minutes ago, LunchCutter said:

Not having much fun with my Shiratsuyus guns lately. A early game I finished with 60+ hits for 3k damage. Firing HE mainly with a 10% pen rate. Decided in my last game to try AP. Anyway towards the end a enemy Fletcher popped up at close range so I bought my sluggish guns to bear on him, fired multiple broadsides at him with the AP,  ricochet after ricochet... (20 mm of thin armour is very effective at bouncing 127mm shells apparently) The hits that did pen did a woeful 200 points of damage. Thankfully a friendly ship finished him off just in time but I finished up with 16 hits on him for a comical 1.5k damage. Makes me wonder what is the point of AP shells on DDs?? If they cannot pen a rice paper thin DD what good are they?

If you're getting ricochets It's probably because of the angle. It may have looked flat broadside to you but he was turned in towards you or out slightly away from you enough to cause the shell to bounce rather than pen. Go into the training room with the ship of your choice and setup a few reds ships. Make them stationary then work your way around those. Don't go all willy-nilly and gun them down. But rather stop shoot. Move a little shoot. You will see where and how it will or will not pen. It will also show the best spots to hit them. =))  

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Anything bigger than you that's broadside with 127mm and larger main guns

5km and under: water line and upper belt on CL/CA

6-8km: upper belt and super structure on BB

8-12(ish)km: super structure

Broad side of fatter DD

General rule of thumb give or take a km here and there.

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I think you’re aiming at some of the more heavily armoured places for both your HE and AP. The few penetrations you’re getting are because rng is hitting less armoured areas. For IJN DD’s I’d use almost exclusively HE. AP only if you have a flat broadside cruiser or BB at less then 5-6kms. Cruisers you can citadel and get higher dmg. BB’s you can aim for the bow and stern areas as well as upper belt. You’ll see if you’re not getting penetrations. Then it’s HE to the super structure.

Congrats on using your IJN DD guns by the way. 

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5 hours ago, LunchCutter said:

Not having much fun with my Shiratsuyus guns lately. A early game I finished with 60+ hits for 3k damage. Firing HE mainly with a 10% pen rate. Decided in my last game to try AP. Anyway towards the end a enemy Fletcher popped up at close range so I bought my sluggish guns to bear on him, fired multiple broadsides at him with the AP,  ricochet after ricochet... (20 mm of thin armour is very effective at bouncing 127mm shells apparently) The hits that did pen did a woeful 200 points of damage. Thankfully a friendly ship finished him off just in time but I finished up with 16 hits on him for a comical 1.5k damage. Makes me wonder what is the point of AP shells on DDs?? If they cannot pen a rice paper thin DD what good are they?

DDs can citadel Molotovs.  

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4 hours ago, Navalpride33 said:

IJN DD AP not worth it really...

Any other nation DD ??? Deadly...

I got 7 citadel hits on a cruiser with my Asashio last night, close and broadside. 

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For IJN dd's, just stick to that excellent HE. Most other DDs have fair to deadly AP depending on situation. French and RU dds can citadel cruisers all the way up to tier X. 

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8 hours ago, LunchCutter said:

Not having much fun with my Shiratsuyus guns lately. A early game I finished with 60+ hits for 3k damage. Firing HE mainly with a 10% pen rate. Decided in my last game to try AP. Anyway towards the end a enemy Fletcher popped up at close range so I bought my sluggish guns to bear on him, fired multiple broadsides at him with the AP,  ricochet after ricochet... (20 mm of thin armour is very effective at bouncing 127mm shells apparently) The hits that did pen did a woeful 200 points of damage. Thankfully a friendly ship finished him off just in time but I finished up with 16 hits on him for a comical 1.5k damage. Makes me wonder what is the point of AP shells on DDs?? If they cannot pen a rice paper thin DD what good are they?

Aloha,

You learn over time when to and not to fire AP in a DD (I know, I know "duh" however, common sense is not common) .

Pretty much, if you're close, and something has lower than norm armor (DD, light cruisers, etc) AP can work very effectively, or even broad BB's, dumping AP into superstructure can work VERY well.

For me usually what I do, if I am smoked up and something is broad, I will fire away with HE till I see a fire start, then switch to AP until the fire is out then back to HE to start another fire.

DD vs DD, AP can be fickle, from angles to overpens, but with the reload of DD guns, often times I will hit the "2" key, full salvo, hit the "1" key fire a full salvo and rinse and repeat.

Now all that being said....  when you are in something like a Kleber  (or Marceau when she comes out), wait till you see a broadside parked ship like a Smolensk, lay some AP into them center of mass and watch the citadel count pop! :Smile_izmena:

A good rule of thumb while you are learning though, stick to HE, once you get really comfortable with DD's then you can branch out to AP more.

Mahalo,

-Hapa

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3 hours ago, GrayPanther2018 said:

I got 7 citadel hits on a cruiser with my Asashio last night, close and broadside. 

Oh wow 7... Nice aiming.... You know other nation DD AP they can easily double or even triple that figure.... That to me is the disproportional part of the game...

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You need to better understand your guns. There is plenty of variety between DD AP rounds. French and German AP is serious stuff. Ask any Smolenk driver who has been caught broadside  by a Kleber using rapid fire.  As said above with DD AP knowing when and where to shoot is the key. 

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30 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Oh wow 7... Nice aiming.... You know other nation DD AP they can easily double or even triple that figure.... That to me is the disproportional part of the game...

I got more than  that on a Molotov  in my 3.9" armed Harakaze. 

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The big thing to understand about DD AP is that anything can autobounce those rounds, including other DDs.  The OP probably had the fFetcher bowtanking his AP shells so they were ricocheting, or was just sharply angled since no DD has improved ricochet angles.  Most DDs can citadel a few cruisers in the right place at the right time, the Russian and French gunboats are best at it as they have the highest pen AP, but a lot of DD AP can do decently against long range broadside ships if you hit the thinner upper plating or superstructure.

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10 minutes ago, GrayPanther2018 said:

I got more than  that on a Molotov  in my 3.9" armed Harakaze. 

MY argument on AP DD ships is consistently. As in consistent IJN DD guns AP are, you're better off with DD of other nations other then IJN..

Yes you'll get lucky on some games, why settle for luck if other's are constant?

Edited by Navalpride33
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9 hours ago, LunchCutter said:

 Makes me wonder what is the point of AP shells on DDs?? If they cannot pen a rice paper thin DD what good are they?

To farm broadsides of BBs and crsuiers, DD AP can be really effective when properly used, can even citadel cruisers. 

 

They can also be effectivce agaisnt other DDs, though this is mostly in high tiers, some DDs are large enough to arm AP shells. 

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Understand auto bounce.. DONT aim for the parts of the ship that will auto bounce.  Be aware of penetration values for the guns and be aware that penetration values for AP shells drop significantly over range especially for DD class 150mm and below sized guns due to the light shell wieght.  For the most part once your shooting at anything over 8 Km your better off shooting HE but below that if you get a decent flat side of a ship (for most DD class main guns angle to target can be no more that 30 degrees or things stop working right)  The advantage of AP is if its gets onto the ship and sticks it will cause more damage that HE.

Don't take anyones word for it.. go find out yourself.. do some coop battle, run a training room, experiment!

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8 hours ago, Navalpride33 said:

IJN DD AP not worth it really...

Any other nation DD ??? Deadly...

This.

IJN DD HE is the most deadly, with good fire chance. AFAIK, it's ad effective as some other DDs' AP.

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10 hours ago, LunchCutter said:

Makes me wonder what is the point of AP shells on DDs??

Jutland, Daring, ones with Japanese 100mm guns: your AP can arm on T8-10 DDs (19mm plating, 19 and 17mm threshold respectively) so AP on broadside DDs:

German AP: on bigger and fatter DDs (khaba, Gearing, Groz, Kleber, T8-10 German DDs) your AP can arm on those ships broadside.

Soviet 130mm, Marceau's 127mm guns: you can citadel light cruisers at 8km and most heavy cruisers at 3km.

FR DD AP T6-7: can reliably citadel all cruisers in their tier bracket within 6km.

FR DD AP T8-10: can reliably citadel light cruisers at 13km, and most heavies by 5km.

1 hour ago, Tedster_ said:

no DD has improved ricochet angles.

Jutland and Daring have American Piercing autobounce angles, 60-67.5

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9 hours ago, DESRON10 said:

What are DD AP shells actually good for?....

Suppositories

When I’m in my Kitakaze or Akizuki, and a red DD shows me too much side during a knife fight, and I switch to AP, that’s exactly what he thinks I done to him! 

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5 hours ago, GrayPanther2018 said:

I got 7 citadel hits on a cruiser with my Asashio last night, close and broadside. 

Was it a Donskoi?  If so, that might have been me.  LOL.  I'd just finished helping a DD kill the red CV, and was heading to the middle cap when I go spotted by an Asashio riding the map edge, which allowed the whole red team to murder me.  And, of course, my guns were pointed the other way when I spotted it.

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