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DevilD0g

Carrier Aircraft changes for rockets

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1. Now we have "arcade" stype gameplay for CV rocket planes, there should be no lead in time when  you have to fire rockets. For bombs  and torps i get it you need an aiming sight lead in.  But you dont for free fire dumb rockets.  Rocket planes should have a site on target and you can fire any time instead of waiting for the reticle to go green.  For rockets the reticle should be there and you can fire when  you want when your on target. I shouldnt have to wait for the reticle to go green to "let me fire" . Many times i have been over target to have the reticle run out of time for rockets and thats just garbage.  If  your on target no matter what the ship or aircraft, you should be able to fire,  and in this case its with rockets.

2.  Time to make changes to rocket firing.  Rockets should be able to be fired a full salvo left click,  fire individual rockets in 0.5 second intervals, left click and hold, or single rocket firing , right click.  This should all be done with the reticle that doesnt need to be green before  you can fire, its just a reticle, you fire it like a gun on a target.

3. Time to change the dispersion on the tiny tims rockets, it always seems to fall all around the target when its aim on target is dead on..  So it seems the rockets aim around a target in an oval bubble, This needs to be fixed and is a bug.

4. After the swordfish Scharnhorst and Gneisenau incident as they traversed the English Channel towards Germany  the torpedo-bomber role changed and was more frequently tasked with anti-submarine duties instead. Armed with depth charges and rockets, the type soon proved to be a capable submarine killer.  As we are soon introducing submarines, perhaps the rocket plane could have a secondary weapon of a depth charge ???? key 1 for rockets and 2 for depth charges.

5. Not to mention time to make changes to the number of rockets an aircraft can carry.   Here we see a fairy swordfish carrying 4 rockets on each wing and not 2 as in HMS Hermes. Its also historical accuracy, you cant have it historical accuracy for some ships and not others.  Come on wargaming.

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Edited by DevilD0g
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I want Rosie the Rocketeer.

 

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21 minutes ago, DevilD0g said:

1. Now we have "arcade" stype gameplay for CV rocket planes, there should be no lead in time when  you have to fire rockets. For bombs  and torps i get it you need an aiming sight lead in.  But you dont for free fire dumb rockets.  Rocket planes should have a site on target and you can fire any time instead of waiting for the reticle to go green.  For rockets the reticle should be there and you can fire when  you want when your on target. I shouldnt have to wait for the reticle to go green to "let me fire" . Many times i have been over target to have the reticle run out of time for rockets and thats just garbage.  If  your on target no matter what the ship or aircraft, you should be able to fire,  and in this case its with rockets.

2.  Time to make changes to rocket firing.  Rockets should be able to be fired a full salvo left click,  fire individual rockets in 0.5 second intervals, left click and hold, or single rocket firing , right click.  This should all be done with the reticle that doesnt need to be green before  you can fire, its just a reticle.

3. Time to change the dispersion on the tiny tims rockets, it always seems to fall all around the target when its aim on target is dead on..  So it seems the rockets aim around a target in an oval bubble, This needs to be fixed and is a bug.

The attack timers were added because DD's felt like they were unfairly punished so WG added a timer to attack, then they reduced the spotting range for DD's by planes, then they reduced damage, etc ad infinum.

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1: That is honestly a terrible idea and you know why.

2: That doesn't seem like it would be beneficial at all.

3: Use HVARs on the Lexington. Tiny Tims really come into their own on the Midway. 

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3 minutes ago, Wicked_Little_Witch said:

Rockets are slower then bullets

Actually, there are rockets that are much faster than bullets. A bullet stops accelerating when it leaves the barrel of a gun. A rocket can continue to accelerate for several minutes if it has enough fuel, getting faster with each passing second.

Certain models of Sparrow Missiles can travel 4,500 fps, which is faster than all but the fastest fired bullets. For example, the .220 Swift's maximum powder charge can propel its bullet to 4,600 fps but the 5.56 mm NATO is much slower at 3,250 fps.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, MaxMcKay said:

The attack timers were added because DD's felt like they were unfairly punished so WG added a timer to attack, then they reduced the spotting range for DD's by planes, then they reduced damage, etc ad infinum.

DD mains feel 'unfairly punished' by anything that counters them. Radar, hydro, aircraft, rapid fire guns, HE shells, RN CL AP, WASD hacks, etc.

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7 minutes ago, Zaydin said:

DD mains feel 'unfairly punished' by anything that counters them. Radar, hydro, aircraft, rapid fire guns, HE shells, RN CL AP, WASD hacks, etc.

Stealth torpedoes, radar is temporary, DD's have rapid fire guns, smoke, ability to stealth launch torps.  etc etc etc. I agree they should disable all game client mods.

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15 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

Actually, there are rockets that are much faster than bullets. A bullet stops accelerating when it leaves the barrel of a gun. A rocket can continue to accelerate for several minutes if it has enough fuel, getting faster with each passing second.

Certain models of Sparrow Missiles can travel 4,500 fps, which is faster than all but the fastest fired bullets. For example, the .220 Swift's maximum powder charge can propel its bullet to 4,600 fps but the 5.56 mm NATO is much slower at 3,250 fps.

For the era's cover by the game, the fastest applicable rockets I could find were the HVAR's at 1375 ft/sec (+launching aircraft speed) and about the lowest muzzle velocity for a WWII aircraft gun I know of is 1770 ft/sec from a German MK 108 (which also benefits from the speed of the firing aircraft).

Edited by SgtBeltfed

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21 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

Actually, there are rockets that are much faster than bullets. A bullet stops accelerating when it leaves the barrel of a gun. A rocket can continue to accelerate for several minutes if it has enough fuel, getting faster with each passing second.

 

 

That is incorrect. Burn times for rockets, were seconds, not minutes. Tiny Tims for example, had a burn time of 1 sec, and reaches a speed of 550 miles per hour. Majority of most solid rocket propelled weaponry, like the Sparrow Missile, only has a burn time of 1-8 seconds. I believe (though don't quote me on this, as I can't find a source for it), the sparrow missile has a burn time of 3-5 seconds, depending on the engine used.

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22 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

For the era's cover by the game, the fastest applicable rockets I could find were the HVAR's at 1375 ft/sec (+launching aircraft speed) and about the lowest muzzle velocity for a WWII aircraft gun I know of is 1770 ft/sec from a German MK 108 (which also benefits from the speed of the firing aircraft).

Well the fairy swordfish carried British RP-3 rockets (rocket projectile) and they were at 1600/ft/s (480 m/s) so faster than HVAR's on target so  you would think more accurate.

   
Edited by DevilD0g

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2 minutes ago, DevilD0g said:

Well the fairy swordfish carried British RP-3 rockets (rocket projectile) and they were at 1600/ft/s (480 m/s) so faster than HVAR's on target so  you would think more accurate.

   

thr RP-3 weighed only 82 pounds. HVAR weighed 132 pounds. The weight difference means the slower rocket would be more accurate, because of a thing called inertia. Both are unguided, meaning once launched they are affected by outside influence, and can't course correct. Barometric pressure, and wind, is far more capable of redirecting the 82 pound RP-3, than the HVAR, by comparison.

There is another factor that plays a role in the accuracy of weapons: Rotation. A projectile that spins, is far more stable, and far more accurate, than a projectile that isn't spinning, because of the gyroscopic effect. The gyroscopic effect reduces the impact of barometric pressure, and wind, but doesn't eleminate it. The 62 pound shell from the Type 98 65 caliber 100mm IJN guns, because the barrel were bored (meaning it will provide rotation to the shell), will be far more accurate at range, than either the RP-3, and HVAR, despite being lighter than the two rockets. Which really shows how powerful the gyroscopic effect really is.

And yes, even in the short distances the rockets would have likely been launched from, the Barometic pressure, and wind, still plays an important role in the accuracy of an unguided weapon.

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My idea for adjusting CV rocket planes is to increase the time to arm the reticle after clicking the mouse button (say around 8-9 seconds), and then decrease the time the aiming reticle is active to shoot (say 2-3 seconds). This, in addition to the increase in the aiming reticle if the planes maneuver in the attack run, will force CV players to start the attack run further from the target, and then decreases the time they have to shoot and decreases their accuracy if the target tries to maneuver.  In effect, this will actually make DDs maneuvering to dodge rocket attacks to actually be effective. 

Edited by RyuuohD_NA
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1 hour ago, Wicked_Little_Witch said:

Rockets are slower then bullets, you have to lead with guns don't  you ?

nice try though

I think he means rockets' aiming time being instant, like Graf Z's dive bombers. Which would make it easier to snapshot DDs. Might be cool if there were something balancing opposite it, like fewer rockets or lower damage.

I kind of like the idea for staggered rockets mimicking the British dive bombers and for aerial depth charges (someday as an alternate ability: I'd like limited mining personally) but the inconsistency of historical accuracy is here to stay.

Disregarding some of the simpler points made, there are some good ideas here. However, because of their nature as alternate options, they're most likely consigned to the future, when some other CV line comes out.

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2 hours ago, Counter_Gambit said:

That is incorrect. Burn times for rockets, were seconds, not minutes. 

Depends on the rocket. The X-15 was a rocket plane that accelerated for 85 seconds. The Saturn 5's main engine burned for 168 seconds. Have you ever fired a military rocket? I have. They don't exactly act like a bullet fired from a rifle, the guided ones especially. You do, however, have to lead the unguided ones, much as you would a shotgun. But the point is sort of moot as reality is far different from the game, though the game does make at least some attempt to mimic real-world ballistics.

Edited by Snargfargle

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12 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

Depends on the rocket. The X-15 was a rocket plane that accelerated for 85 seconds. The Saturn 5's main engine burned for 168 seconds. Have you ever fired a military rocket? I have. They don't exactly act like a bullet fired from a rifle, the guided ones especially. You do, however, have to lead the unguided ones, much as you would a shotgun. But the point is sort of moot as reality is far different from the game, though the game does make at least some attempt to mimic real-world ballistics.

We were talking rocket weaponry mounted on aircraft to be used to hit the enemy to explode... so I didn't feel the need to specify the matter. But I did specify the matter later in that commet: " Majority of most solid rocket propelled weaponry..." which you seem to have completely ignored. That statement also specified that I do know that there are outliers when it comes to solid rocket propelled weaponry.

Liquid Fueled rockets used as weapons mounted on Aircraft, didn't start until after WWII. The V-2 rocket, was the first liquid Fuel rocket weapon. HE176 was the first manned flight of a liquid rocket fueled aircraft. The X-15, and Saturn 5 are both liquid fueled rockets. Notice how none of those matches the topic at hand.

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16 hours ago, MaxMcKay said:

The attack timers were added because DD's felt like they were unfairly punished so WG added a timer to attack, then they reduced the spotting range for DD's by planes, then they reduced damage, etc ad infinum.

DD are be very happy no matter what happened.

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16 hours ago, Counter_Gambit said:

That is incorrect. Burn times for rockets, were seconds, not minutes. Tiny Tims for example, had a burn time of 1 sec, and reaches a speed of 550 miles per hour. Majority of most solid rocket propelled weaponry, like the Sparrow Missile, only has a burn time of 1-8 seconds. I believe (though don't quote me on this, as I can't find a source for it), the sparrow missile has a burn time of 3-5 seconds, depending on the engine used.

I'm under the impression that the missile streaking into a target from behind or ahead, is an IR missile/Hollywood thing.

I believe that in longer-ranged engagements, the missile climbs in a semi-ballistic arc, and more or less "drops", unpowered, onto its target.

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19 hours ago, Zaydin said:

DD mains feel 'unfairly punished' by anything that counters them. Radar, hydro, aircraft, rapid fire guns, HE shells, RN CL AP, WASD hacks, etc.

Yeah because the BBabies haven't whined enough since this game launched about anything and everything that doesn't make them untouchable.

Open water firing, CVs, HE spam, torps, CVs some more, DD concealment, Smolensk, CVs again, etc. 

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16 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

though the game does make at least some attempt to mimic real-world ballistics.

Not with rockets. Rockets have a fixed flight time of 0.5 seconds, and as far as I know they fly in a straight line from the plane to wherever they hit (not that that matters for game purposes).

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Stop trying to nerf CV's .
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Get with the program or delete.

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21 hours ago, Zaydin said:

DD mains feel 'unfairly punished' by anything that counters them. Radar, hydro, aircraft, rapid fire guns, HE shells, RN CL AP, WASD hacks, etc.

:Smile_teethhappy:......actually, with the etc there seems to be a lot of counters there, did you intend to show that? :Smile_smile:

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