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Hapa_Fodder

ST, changes to test ships.

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Please note that all information in the development blog is preliminary and subject to change during testing. Showcased features may or may not end up on the main server. Any final information will be published on our official portal.


We adjusted the parameters of ships based on testing results.

European destroyer Orkan, Tier VIII:

  • Detectability range by ships increased from 7.0 to 7.5 km. Other detectability ranges increased accordingly.

Soviet cruiser Petropavlovsk, Tier X:

  • "Surveillance Radar" consumable action time increased from 10 to 15 s;
  • The angle at which the check for ricochets is made for AP shells is reduced from 55 to 50 degrees;
  • Detectability range by ships increased from 14.4 to 14.9 km. Other detectability ranges increased accordingly;
  • Fixed an issue which caused the citadel torpedo bulkhead plating (40 mm) to duplicate.

Soviet cruiser Riga, Tier IX:

  • The angle at which the check for ricochets is made for AP shells is reduced from 55 to 50 degrees;
  • "Surveillance Radar" consumable action time increased from 10 to 15 s;
  • Detectability range by ships increased from 14.2 to 14.7. Other detectability ranges increased accordingly.

Soviet cruiser Tallin, Tier VIII:

  • The angle at which the check for ricochets is made for AP shells is reduced from 55 to 50 degrees;
  • "Surveillance Radar" consumable action time increased from 10 to 15 s.

German cruiser Ägir, Tier IX:

  • Main battery guns firing range reduced from 18.5 to 17.0 km.

Please note that all information in the development blog is preliminary and subject to change during testing. Showcased features may or may not end up on the main server. Any final information will be published on our official portal.

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Obligatory German nerf because German.

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3 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

European destroyer Orkan, Tier VIII:

  • Detectability range by ships increased from 7.0 to 7.5 km. Other detectability ranges increased accordingly.



Rip 5.5 concealment... She may have been too strong so let's see 

3 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Soviet cruiser Petropavlovsk, Tier X:

  • "Surveillance Radar" consumable action time increased from 10 to 15 s;
  • The angle at which the check for ricochets is made for AP shells is reduced from 55 to 50 degrees;
  • Detectability range by ships increased from 14.4 to 14.9 km. Other detectability ranges increased accordingly;
  • Fixed an issue which caused the citadel torpedo bulkhead plating (40 mm) to duplicate.

Soviet cruiser Riga, Tier IX:

  • The angle at which the check for ricochets is made for AP shells is reduced from 55 to 50 degrees;
  • "Surveillance Radar" consumable action time increased from 10 to 15 s;
  • Detectability range by ships increased from 14.2 to 14.7. Other detectability ranges increased accordingly.

Soviet cruiser Tallin, Tier VIII:

  • The angle at which the check for ricochets is made for AP shells is reduced from 55 to 50 degrees;
  • "Surveillance Radar" consumable action time increased from 10 to 15 s.

The ONLY radar that would have been relatively balanced  is getting buffed... Flambass and many others were right, radar will get buffed because completely neglecting the only thing that makes DDs survive is clearly not enough. For real, keep the 10 seconds radar, 12km is already a busted range as very little DDs can launch torps from further away than that

 

3 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

German cruiser Ägir, Tier IX:

  • Main battery guns firing range reduced from 18.5 to 17.0 km.

What the actual f...? 

 

F F S STOP NERFING Ägir... She has nerfed Alaska guns, extremely bad armor to the point I rather play Azuma for tankiness, secondaries with awful angles and DPM, no utility whatsoever not even fighter and now she is getting crap range...? 

 

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Are these posts going to stop because of the changes regarding WIP ships?

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1 hour ago, XurMP said:

Rip 5.5 concealment... She may have been too strong so let's see 

The ONLY radar that would have been relatively balanced  is getting buffed... Flambass and many others were right, radar will get buffed because completely neglecting the only thing that makes DDs survive is clearly not enough. For real, keep the 10 seconds radar, 12km is already a busted range as very little DDs can launch torps from further away than that

 

What the actual f...? 

 

F F S STOP NERFING Ägir... She has nerfed Alaska guns, extremely bad armor to the point I rather play Azuma for tankiness, secondaries with awful angles and DPM, no utility whatsoever not even fighter and now she is getting crap range...? 

 

I don't think 15 seconds is that bad. It probably takes people a few seconds for radar to even render and people to react to it. Considering your team doesn't see the radar for 6 seconds means that at 15s today the enemy team could only really get off about 1 salvo. At 10s it would have been 4s for your team. There's really only time for 1 salvo or maybe 2 if the stars align.

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6 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

European destroyer Orkan, Tier VIII:

  • Detectability range by ships increased from 7.0 to 7.5 km. Other detectability ranges increased accordingly.

seeing its a much better Lightning, I can understand this.

6 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Soviet cruiser Petropavlovsk, Tier X:

  • "Surveillance Radar" consumable action time increased from 10 to 15 s;

I think removing that radar would of been better.

6 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

The angle at which the check for ricochets is made for AP shells is reduced from 55 to 50 degrees;

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but now the AP bounce angles on all three of these ships is now 50-65, which makes them on par with American Piercing shells, with the pen of a Bismarck 15in shell? What... The... Fu-

6 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Fixed an issue which caused the citadel torpedo bulkhead plating (40 mm) to duplicate.

Only in Russia can your torpedo bulkhead magically duplicate itself. Also, the concealment changes are nice, and probably needed, but the radar and pen angle buffs seem questionable.

Ah well, at least Agir is looking good. a Supercruiser with good secondaries, good guns but probably need either a 2-3sec reload buff or a sigma buff to 2.05, but its rather small and its still a ship worth spending money for Free---

6 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

German cruiser Ägir, Tier IX:

  • Main battery guns firing range reduced from 18.5 to 17.0 km.

nvm. Apparently whatever the testers have been saying have gone on deaf ears.

How to fix this: give the range back to 18.5, give back the 10ms fuses, buff the reload to 18secs with a 2.0 sigma, or make the turtleback actually work like Hindenburg's or Bismarck's, where its very hard to citadel either through only pens or overpens. 

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56 minutes ago, tfcas119 said:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but now the AP bounce angles on all three of these ships is now 50-65, which makes them on par with American Piercing shells, with the pen of a Bismarck 15in shell? What... The... Fu-

They've always been worse than American AP.  Normal cruisers get 45-60 bounce range, Soviet CAs get 50-65, American CAs get 60-67.

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5 hours ago, Beleaf_ said:

Obligatory German nerf because German.

Hey

Exactly; because we hate Germany for WW2 and can't allow anything German to out perform anyone else, especially Mother Russia.  Happens all the time here at Wargaming.

 

Pete

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So, if Russian cruisers have a radar duration of 15 seconds, and they can't share visibility of targets with their teams for the first 6 seconds, that means they effectively have 9 seconds where they can light up DDs for the whole team to pile on?  Given their main gun reload speeds, that effectively gives the Russian cruisers themselves one salvo before the radar goes dark.  Maybe two salvos if their guns were pointed in the right direction when they turned on the radar.  As for the rest of their team, the number of salvos will vary, depending on reload time and how close they were paying attention to the mini map.

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Okay, just for giggles, I brought up the wiki pages of the Moskva and the Petropavlovsk to compare them, and see why WG even bothered to come up with a different version.  Mostly to see if it's worth finishing the last 95k XP to grind from Dm. Donskoi to Moskva before it becomes a premium.

Below is a comparison.   Better stats in Green.

Read Petropavlovsk / Moskva.

Hit points:  55,800 / 65,400

Reload:  13 seconds / 10.35 seconds

Range:  18.45 km / 19.44 km

Max dispersion:  171m / 167m (double green because this dispersion is for a longer max range)

HE damage:  3,050 / 3,100

HE and AP shell velocity:  995 m/s / 985 m/s

AP damage:  6,350 / 5,800

Secondaries (same guns):  12 guns at 5km range16 guns at 6.5 km range

AA (just did max DPM to keep it simple):  317.4 / 285.6

Max speed:  32.5 knots / 34.5 knots

Turn radius:  990 m / 1,050 m

rudder shift:  12.1 sec / 10.9 sec

Surface detectability (with max stealth build):  11.31 / 14.14 (by air:  6.52 / 7.36 )

So, reasons you'd take Petropavlovsk over Moskva:  AP damage, shell velocity, AA, and concealment.

Reasons to take Moskva over Petropavlovsk:  durability, ROF, accuracy, maneuverability (assuming the higher turning radius is related to the higher maximum speed), and radar that lasts twice as long.

This doesn't take into account factors not listed in Wiki, such as sigma and armor set-up.  And I'm sure there's something else I'm missing.  But I guess it's definitely worthwhile to grab Moskva before it goes premium, assuming you don't want to save 28k steel to get Stalingrad instead.  Honestly, though, when I'm playing a DD, I'd much rather see a Stalingrad on the red team than a Moskva.  No hydro, plus slower rate of fire.  And even more sluggish at dodging torpedoes.  Now, if I'm playing a cruiser or BB, that's a different story.

 

 

Edited by zubalkabir
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WG why are you continuing to nerf Aigr? Keep it up and it will be a T2 before long. I have not seen 1 CC/Tester who claimed it was OP or needed nerfs. Most claim it needs buffs. Are you going to make it so bad you end up scrapping it like you did Siegfried? Leave it alone already wow.

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23 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

WG why are you continuing to nerf Aigr? Keep it up and it will be a T2 before long. I have not seen 1 CC/Tester who claimed it was OP or needed nerfs. Most claim it needs buffs. Are you going to make it so bad you end up scrapping it like you did Siegfried? Leave it alone already wow.

It's hard to say.  The Ägir's secondaries are absurdly strong for a cruiser, which when coupled with its concealment and armor scheme lets the Ägir easily bully other cruisers and even BBs at close range.  It's one of the few ships I think a secondary build is actually viable.   I'm not sure I'd call it over powered, but the ship was certainly not weak.  

Personally I don't think the nerf was needed...but at the same time it doesn't really affect anything that made the Ägir strong or fun to play....so it's more of an inconvenience than a deal breaker.  I guess at a certain level it makes sense for the Ägir's main battery to be worse than the other CBs....but I don't want WG to overdo it.  Still, I'd rather they nerfed the range than the accuracy or reload.  

Edited by yashma

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1 hour ago, zubalkabir said:

And I'm sure there's something else I'm missing.

Petro has 100-150 mm more AP penetration than Moskva. It's almost Stalin-grade. The sigma is the same as Moskva and I believe the armor layout is essentially identical as well; big exposed citadel and 50mm lower bow plating.  

1209521834_ScreenShot2020-03-20at2_12_57PM.thumb.png.6511d24d40741818ffc6e70479c98df8.png

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49 minutes ago, yashma said:

It's hard to say.  The Ägir's secondaries are absurdly strong for a cruiser, which when coupled with its concealment and armor scheme lets the Ägir easily bully other cruisers and even BBs at close range.  It's one of the few ships I think a secondary build is actually viable.   I'm not sure I'd call it over powered, but the ship was certainly not weak.  

Personally I don't think the nerf was needed...but at the same time it doesn't really affect anything that made the Ägir strong or fun to play....so it's more of an inconvenience than a deal breaker.  I guess at a certain level it makes sense for the Ägir's main battery to be worse than the other CBs....but I don't want WG to overdo it.  Still, I'd rather they nerfed the range than the accuracy or reload.  

It's Bismarck/Tirpitz secondary range but it is only 9X2 128MM. It doesn't even have the 150's. If that is an issue nerf their range. Don't see what it matters though as almost no one at high tiers gets even remotely close so it could have 15km secondary guns and it wouldn't matter LOL.

Just seems like any time a ship is even remotely good lately, unless it is RU, they nerf it to death. I have seen a lot of WIP replays of Aigr from really good CC's and ST's. They have tried sec builds and it isn't OP by any stretch. Unlike a real BB Aigr does not have the armor to be a brawler unless it is vs Cruisers. From what I saw it is an average ship at best as is.

JMHO but this is a needless nerf if secondary gun range is their issue. 

Edited by AdmiralThunder
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1 hour ago, AdmiralThunder said:

It's Bismarck/Tirpitz secondary range but it is only 9X2 128MM. It doesn't even have the 150's. If that is an issue nerf their range. Don't see what it matters though as almost no one at high tiers gets even remotely close so it could have 15km secondary guns and it wouldn't matter LOL.

I guess you have to play to it, but full secondary Ägir is an absolute blast (and I don't usually like secondary builds).  If it was statically over performing I'd much rather they nerf something other than what makes the ship fun and unique.  I'm not a huge fan of the range nerf, but it really doesn't take away from the appeal of the ship and they could have done far worse.  

 

*edit

Shamelessly stollen from Reddit....but in the comments the OP outlines far better than I can the appeal of the Ägir.


https://old.reddit.com/r/WorldOfWarships/comments/feef8y/ägir_facing_a_captain_convinced_that_cruisers/

Edited by yashma

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So in little over a month Odin had her health reduce to that of a T5 BB and Agir range ( Not even I mention why. At least make something up. ) is just a tad bit better than Konigsberg, coupled with the AP fuse nerf. In their current state neither of them are worth the resources or money unless you are collector or diehard wehraboo.

Yep, no bias whatever, none. All nations are equal, but some nations are more equal than others.

Edited by Beleaf_
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1 hour ago, Beleaf_ said:

So in little over a month Odin had her health reduce to that of a T5 BB and Agir range ( Not even I mention why. At least make something up. ) is just a tad bit better than Konigsberg, coupled with the AP fuse nerf. In their current state neither of them are worth the resources or money unless you are collector or diehard wehraboo.

Yep, no bias whatever, none. All nations are equal, but some nations are more equal than others.

And people will gobble them up because they're German, but that's one of the reasons why... Their mass appeal. 

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Hey

If it's German there is no hope of it being good.   Proof is seen time and time again, Meh lives on.  Wargaming will see to that, for sure. 

 

Pete

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everyone buys the german ships, therefore they have to be mediocre to prevent powercreep

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On 3/20/2020 at 8:45 PM, AdmiralThunder said:

WG why are you continuing to nerf Aigr? Keep it up and it will be a T2 before long. I have not seen 1 CC/Tester who claimed it was OP or needed nerfs. Most claim it needs buffs. Are you going to make it so bad you end up scrapping it like you did Siegfried? Leave it alone already wow.

Even better, let's nerf Russia. Period.

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On 3/20/2020 at 4:26 AM, Beleaf_ said:

Obligatory German nerf because German.

 

On 3/20/2020 at 5:48 AM, XurMP said:

F F S STOP NERFING Ägir... She has nerfed Alaska guns, extremely bad armor to the point I rather play Azuma for tankiness, secondaries with awful angles and DPM, no utility whatsoever not even fighter and now she is getting crap range...? 

 

 

On 3/20/2020 at 9:39 AM, sasquatch_research said:

Hey

Exactly; because we hate Germany for WW2 and can't allow anything German to out perform anyone else, especially Mother Russia.  Happens all the time here at Wargaming.

 

Pete

 

On 3/20/2020 at 11:45 AM, AdmiralThunder said:

WG why are you continuing to nerf Aigr? Keep it up and it will be a T2 before long. I have not seen 1 CC/Tester who claimed it was OP or needed nerfs. Most claim it needs buffs. Are you going to make it so bad you end up scrapping it like you did Siegfried? Leave it alone already wow.

 

Working as intended, komrades. Fun and engaging, komrades. :Smile_trollface:

The mighty Stalin-approved SpreadsheetTM says Agir was way over-performing, so the nerf was necessary, komrades. Unfortunately, none of you have the klearance to see the Sekrit Dokument that explains the details... komrades. So don't ask too many questions, or else you'll enjoy a permanent promotion to the gulag... komrades, lol. :Smile_trollface:

On top of that, please remember that when it comes to German balansTM, the Operation Barbarossa must always be taken into account, komrades. It's same with the IJN ships and the Battle of Tsushima, komrades. :Smile_trollface:

/s :cap_haloween:

 

Jokes aside... I'm not surprised, really. I knew Agir was gonna have her face bashed in with a nerf bat, on something, one way or another, sooner or later... sigh. :Smile_sceptic:

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13 minutes ago, Blorgh2017 said:

Working as intended, komrades. Fun and engaging, komrades. :Smile_trollface:

The mighty Stalin-approved SpreadsheetTM says Agir was way over-performing, so the nerf was necessary, komrades. Unfortunately, none of you have the klearance to see the Sekrit Dokument that explains the details... komrades. So don't ask too many questions, or else you'll enjoy a permanent promotion to the gulag... komrades, lol. :Smile_trollface:

On top of that, please remember that when it comes to German balansTM, the Operation Barbarossa must always be taken into account, komrades. It's same with the IJN ships and the Battle of Tsushima, komrades. :Smile_trollface:

/s :cap_haloween:

 

Jokes aside... I'm not surprised, really. I knew Agir was gonna have her face bashed in with a nerf bat, on something, one way or another, sooner or later... sigh. :Smile_sceptic:

 

Another ship to join the likes of Azuma, Yuudachi Yukikaze, PeF and so many others... Ships that COULD have been quite good and unique but got completely fcked because of WG constant efforts to completely ruin anything under any axis power flag... 

 

We get it WG, some Germans (to avoid using the word) during the 30s and 40s were one of the worst persons to ever exist but F F S STOP NERFING THEIR PIXEL BOATS!

Edited by XurMP
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On 3/20/2020 at 10:34 AM, yashma said:

They've always been worse than American AP.  Normal cruisers get 45-60 bounce range, Soviet CAs get 50-65, American CAs get 60-67.

I just checked the WoWs Wiki, it seems normal cruisers have 30-45 angle

USN heavy cruisers have 22.5-30 angle

Stalingrad has 25-35 angle

Soo, New Soviet Heavy Cruisers have an angle of something to 50 angle???

That is actually worse than regular cruisers, since you want both numbers be as low as possible to have an "improved" AP angle.

But again, I wasn't sure if WG is consistently using the same reference frame. If they are using the reference frame from the WoWs Wiki, then it means these ships have a worse AP angle than normal cruisers???????

 

I wasn't so sure, maybe the dev can answer this question.

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On 3/20/2020 at 10:34 AM, yashma said:

They've always been worse than American AP.  Normal cruisers get 45-60 bounce range, Soviet CAs get 50-65, American CAs get 60-67.

Never mind, I just checked their old post, they clearly said those ships have improved AP angles, so it must be using a different reference compare to WoWs Wiki

So they said it is gonna be 50-65, so converting to the reference frame used in WoWs Wiki, will be 25-40

In the previous iteration, those ships has an angle of 25-35 (which is the same as Stalingrad)

Now it is 25-40, which actually is a nerf???

Since the guaranteed penetration angle increased from 35 to 40?

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3 hours ago, Tom_Lin said:

Never mind, I just checked their old post, they clearly said those ships have improved AP angles, so it must be using a different reference compare to WoWs Wiki

So they said it is gonna be 50-65, so converting to the reference frame used in WoWs Wiki, will be 25-40

In the previous iteration, those ships has an angle of 25-35 (which is the same as Stalingrad)

Now it is 25-40, which actually is a nerf???

Since the guaranteed penetration angle increased from 35 to 40?

Normal cruisers have auto bounce ranges from 45-60.  The new Soviet CA line has auto bounce ranges of 50-65, the Stalingrad has 55-65, USN CAs get 60-67, while RN CLs get 60-75. 

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