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Hamma_Time

Get rid of Karma system, CV players get punished just for playing CV's

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I consider myself a pretty good and supportive player in whatever class of ship I play. However, when I play my CV, I will end a game and suddenly my karma will drop one or two points. In many instances, I get "sniped" by some player in the game who doesn't want CVs in the game at all, so he reports me just because. In many other occasions, the CV player simply takes the brunt of a team's loss. A CV player gets blamed for not spotting DDs, not supporting that YOLO player who raced off all by himself, gets blamed for not providing AA support where someone wished it to be, and I'll be on one side of the map helping half the team, but then the other half of the team on the other side of the map will complain. Hell, I even got blamed because the match was 5 vs 5, and then got blamed again because we lost. I just came out of a game where we lost pretty bad. The DD player who died first started complaining that I didn't support that side of the map, which got rolled, and I ended up having -2 karma. Ridiculous.

Superfluous "reporting" is irritating to say the least. I understand the need to report players who are rude or unsporting, but to be used as a tool to punish CV players "just because" is out of hand. The karma system needs to be removed. If someone is truly deserving of reporting, then create a better system that can't be abused.

 

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With the angst that it gives some people they should just get rid of it.

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18 minutes ago, Hamma_Time said:

 

Karma doesn't do anything, so you aren't getting punished. Maybe, they just don't think you played well. Either way I wouldn't worry about it. To be honest, the players taking away the karma is most likely the red DDs that you harassed all game or the other red ships for that matter.

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25 minutes ago, Hamma_Time said:

I consider myself a pretty good and supportive player in whatever class of ship I play. However, when I play my CV, I will end a game and suddenly my karma will drop one or two points. In many instances, I get "sniped" by some player in the game who doesn't want CVs in the game at all, so he reports me just because. In many other occasions, the CV player simply takes the brunt of a team's loss. A CV player gets blamed for not spotting DDs, not supporting that YOLO player who raced off all by himself, gets blamed for not providing AA support where someone wished it to be, and I'll be on one side of the map helping half the team, but then the other half of the team on the other side of the map will complain. Hell, I even got blamed because the match was 5 vs 5, and then got blamed again because we lost. I just came out of a game where we lost pretty bad. The DD player who died first started complaining that I didn't support that side of the map, which got rolled, and I ended up having -2 karma. Ridiculous.

Superfluous "reporting" is irritating to say the least. I understand the need to report players who are rude or unsporting, but to be used as a tool to punish CV players "just because" is out of hand. The karma system needs to be removed. If someone is truly deserving of reporting, then create a better system that can't be abused.

 

WG will never do anything against a player that is "reported" so it does not matter to you specifically. The only impact when someone reports you is that it will reduce the number of reports or congratulations you can create for other players.

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16 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

With the angst that it gives some people they should just get rid of it.

no, I think it can be used as a survey method to show to WG how much the player base dislike CVs.

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15 minutes ago, jager_geist said:

Karma doesn't do anything, so you aren't getting punished. Maybe, they just don't think you played well. Either way I wouldn't worry about it. To be honest, the players taking away the karma is most likely the red DDs that you harassed all game or the other red ships for that matter.

Well, their interpretation of me "not playing well" is what I posted up in the OP. If they think I did not support them enough (even though I was supporting other players), they complain. If the team loses because one side got rolled, someone will blame the CV because I was not there, but I may have been off hunting enemy DDs elsewhere. It almost doesn't matter if I play well or not, someone will throw out a negative karma "just because". In one instance, I recall having doing over 100k in damage, sunk 5 ships, and someone still reported me. Maybe that was a case where a Red player bitched, but I am not sure. Again, it doesn't matter if I do well or not.

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1 hour ago, Hamma_Time said:

I consider myself a pretty good and supportive player in whatever class of ship I play. However, when I play my CV, I will end a game and suddenly my karma will drop one or two points. In many instances, I get "sniped" by some player in the game who doesn't want CVs in the game at all, so he reports me just because. In many other occasions, the CV player simply takes the brunt of a team's loss. A CV player gets blamed for not spotting DDs, not supporting that YOLO player who raced off all by himself, gets blamed for not providing AA support where someone wished it to be, and I'll be on one side of the map helping half the team, but then the other half of the team on the other side of the map will complain. Hell, I even got blamed because the match was 5 vs 5, and then got blamed again because we lost. I just came out of a game where we lost pretty bad. The DD player who died first started complaining that I didn't support that side of the map, which got rolled, and I ended up having -2 karma. Ridiculous.

Superfluous "reporting" is irritating to say the least. I understand the need to report players who are rude or unsporting, but to be used as a tool to punish CV players "just because" is out of hand. The karma system needs to be removed. If someone is truly deserving of reporting, then create a better system that can't be abused.

 

I don't agree with someone getting negative feedback for merely playing a ship type, seems a little unfair as it is WG that has released the ship into the game. If people have a problem with it, isn't that more WGs fault?

 

However, it seems that people are using Karma votes in game as their method of giving a downvote emoji (as they would on the forum) - to show their dislike of a person for using a ship they dislike and feel is ruining the game. People have been saying WG should do something with Karma for years, as it means....nothing - now it seems the community is using it in their own way (in effect, there is now a use for Karma).

So whereas I don't like what is happening, I can see why people are using it as a personal vote. Again, we can state that is not what it is there for, but then....what is it actually there for lol :Smile_honoring:

 

@Hamma_TimeSee, someone has already shown they dislike what I have written - sometimes they will have time to provide feedback along with an emoji, sometimes not.

If you are happy with your choices and how you have acted, it doesn't matter that others disagree - that's life. Sometimes if they discuss their thoughts with you, they may even change your mind? However, most of the time on the forums many of the negative emotes come down to people who have been unable to win you around to their way of thinking in the past and are still sore about it. :Smile_teethhappy:

Edited by _WaveRider_
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The average CV player doesn't understand what "support" actually means, so the average CV player in fact doesn't support his/her/its team. The average surface ship driver has no idea how to play CVs, as the average surface ship driver has not seriously tried to learn.

 

Point of fact, CVs are not balanced, they haven't been balanced, and I've seen nothing that tells me WG has any idea HOW to balance them. People don't like broken ships they have little to no defense against. Most ships, with AA as it is right now, can't defend themselves from a CV even in a group. Des Moines, anyone? You know, AA beast that may as well have cap guns right now? Yeah, that DM.

 

Point of fact, "support" from a CV was much, much easier in the old RTS days. Point of fact, the vast majority of CV drivers now just farm damage, ignore their own teams, and wonder why some players rage so hard against them, and wonder why a decent chunk of the playerbase wouldn't be upset at all if CVs vanished from the game tonight, never to return. Many CV drivers today have yet to figure out how to affect a match the way they did back in the RTS days, and most of those CV drivers simply don't care. Many CV drivers are perfect examples of how this team game rarely turns out to BE a team game.

 

tl;dr: You know many players dislike CVs, and why, and you played them anyway. You pretty much chose to lose karma.

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Seems to me that the solution here is pretty simple.  Get rid of negative reports, but keep the positive ones.

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1 hour ago, Hamma_Time said:

I consider myself a pretty good and supportive player in whatever class of ship I play. However, when I play my CV, I will end a game and suddenly my karma will drop one or two points. In many instances, I get "sniped" by some player in the game who doesn't want CVs in the game at all, so he reports me just because. In many other occasions, the CV player simply takes the brunt of a team's loss. A CV player gets blamed for not spotting DDs, not supporting that YOLO player who raced off all by himself, gets blamed for not providing AA support where someone wished it to be, and I'll be on one side of the map helping half the team, but then the other half of the team on the other side of the map will complain. Hell, I even got blamed because the match was 5 vs 5, and then got blamed again because we lost. I just came out of a game where we lost pretty bad. The DD player who died first started complaining that I didn't support that side of the map, which got rolled, and I ended up having -2 karma. Ridiculous.

Superfluous "reporting" is irritating to say the least. I understand the need to report players who are rude or unsporting, but to be used as a tool to punish CV players "just because" is out of hand. The karma system needs to be removed. If someone is truly deserving of reporting, then create a better system that can't be abused.

 

Totaly agree.

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not like anyone else can see your karma score, so just ignore it?  :Smile_Default:

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Karma vs. reporting a player are two completely different things. Karma does and means nothing. However, it could boost or hurt your pride IF you let it. 

If the CV players think they're are all Lone Rangers you really need to get over that pride hurtle. BB players are constantly downvoted for playing in the back, sniping, not pushing, whatever. Cruisers downvoted for not supporting, radar, getting deleted quickly, whatever. DDs downvoted for not capping, spotting, YOLOing whatever. I personally have been called several names that can not be posted here. My dog has had ill intentions spoke about him (I don't even have a dog) My mother, sister, family have been brought up. I've been shot for, I suppose, heading the wrong direction. Pinned against a rock for the majority of the match for not setting a smoke screen. Called a hax for hitting a target. A noob for missing one. And many other assorted colorful metaphors deemed by the unpleased. I don't report nor do I get heated in chat. Simply smile, laugh, start a new game, or hit the exit button until another day. 

I don't agree that anyone should downvote simply because of ship type. I for one certainly wouldn't do that. I also don't think the majority of the player base would either. Even the small number minority player base posting on these forums will adamantly tell you the majority player base doesn't have a problem with CVs but rather it was the individual player getting the bad karma point for whatever reason.   

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1 hour ago, Hamma_Time said:

Maybe that was a case where a Red player bitched, but I am not sure.

This is just my opinion on this. I would go with it's the red team taking the karma. Take that as a compliment, like when people call you out as a cheater. It just means you did really good.

I don't doubt as a CV player you have seen team mates say negative stuff in chat, but when playing a DD, cruiser, BB you can see what people think you should be doing in chat with the same negativity. DD needs to spot, smoke, cap. Cruiser needs to radar, hydro, support DD. BB to far in the back, full health, etc., etc.. What I am trying to say is, just play the class you want and have fun with it, because no matter what, some one is going to be angry for almost no good reason at some time.

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1 hour ago, Hamma_Time said:

However, when I play my CV, I will end a game and suddenly my karma will drop one or two points.

Straight forward feedback here - you currently have two choices that will have direct impact to your karma -   

1) Ignore Karma cause karma does not matter

2) Stop Playing CV cause karma matters to you

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3 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Seems to me that the solution here is pretty simple.  Get rid of negative reports, but keep the positive ones.

1 hour ago, Hamma_Time said:

I consider myself a pretty good and supportive player in whatever class of ship I play. However, when I play my CV, I will end a game and suddenly my karma will drop one or two points. In many instances, I get "sniped" by some player in the game who doesn't want CVs in the game at all, so he reports me just because. In many other occasions, the CV player simply takes the brunt of a team's loss. A CV player gets blamed for not spotting DDs, not supporting that YOLO player who raced off all by himself, gets blamed for not providing AA support where someone wished it to be, and I'll be on one side of the map helping half the team, but then the other half of the team on the other side of the map will complain. Hell, I even got blamed because the match was 5 vs 5, and then got blamed again because we lost. I just came out of a game where we lost pretty bad. The DD player who died first started complaining that I didn't support that side of the map, which got rolled, and I ended up having -2 karma. Ridiculous.

Superfluous "reporting" is irritating to say the least. I understand the need to report players who are rude or unsporting, but to be used as a tool to punish CV players "just because" is out of hand. The karma system needs to be removed. If someone is truly deserving of reporting, then create a better system that can't be abused.

 

I currently see no plans to remove or change the system in the nearest updates. It works well for us. 
I see, that fairly often it's hard to receive +1 when you play CV, but this does not mean that it is impossible.

The system is not useless, we take reports into consideration as feedback in our internal investigations. Reports and compliments are used by players rarely. But they may highlight some issues and confirm some points if it's needed. We don't write often about this, and we don't talk about this much.

Anyone may find and check the numbers from time to time. But we don't want anyone to be obsessed with them. If you don't like them just don't look at them. 
I'd ask you to use reports wisely, +1 or -1 for one player in one battle is enough for feedback and for confirmations of some of our actions and investigations. 

Thanks for understanding and thanks to everyone for your feedback.

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Your always going to have that one :etc_swear: in every match. Does not matter what you do what you think.

Karma never going to amount to anything because people are going to abuse it such as a sending a comp to their clan mate for no reason or hate on cause they play cv dd ect.

Most people on here wonder why wg ignores the player base feedback because most of it is toxic bull:etc_swear:.

Want people to respect what ship you play but if they play something you hate shame on them. Hard to take people's word when they have double standards.

And before you cry cv has no counter yeah Like a bb has a counter to a dd that can torp without being spotted so on.  Yea alot of crap needs fixing but can at least respect what people play if you want them to respect you.

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7 minutes ago, turbo07 said:

I currently see no plans to remove or change the system in the nearest updates. It works well for us. 
I see, that fairly often it's hard to receive +1 when you play CV, but this does not mean that it is impossible.

The system is not useless, we take reports into consideration as feedback in our internal investigations. Reports and compliments are used by players rarely. But they may highlight some issues and confirm some points if it's needed. We don't write often about this, and we don't talk about this much.

Anyone may find and check the numbers from time to time. But we don't want anyone to be obsessed with them. If you don't like them just don't look at them. 
I'd ask you to use reports wisely, +1 or -1 for one player in one battle is enough for feedback and for confirmations of some of our actions and investigations. 

Thanks for understanding and thanks to everyone for your feedback.

Turbo, whatever else is going on or whatever else the karma system is being used for, there's something MASSIVELY wrong when people are getting automatic chat bans for no other reason than playing a CV!!!

Maybe it's just my personal sense of justice, but if you guys see a player getting one of those auto chat bans and it's clearly only because he played a CV, I happen to think that the players who reported the CV player should be getting a chat ban (in lieu of something else, I suppose) for intentional misuse of the reporting system.

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8 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Turbo, whatever else is going on or whatever else the karma system is being used for, there's something MASSIVELY wrong when people are getting automatic chat bans for no other reason than playing a CV!!!

Maybe it's just my personal sense of justice, but if you guys see a player getting one of those auto chat bans and it's clearly only because he played a CV, I happen to think that the players who reported the CV player should be getting a chat ban (in lieu of something else, I suppose) for intentional misuse of the reporting system.

Partly agree with you, Crucis. We are aware of this issue. And we are on the road to fix it, but it will take more time because the percentage of these false-positive bans, on one hand, is quite miserable, in comparison to the effect that some violators in the chat receive instant feedback from other players in the form of reports and chat bans. 
We may only recommend creating a fast ticket to our support, we are trying to remove such false-positive bans as fast as possible. 
Thank you, this is a serious question and we believe we'll solve it in the future. 

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20 minutes ago, Athrun2021 said:

Most people on here wonder why wg ignores the player base feedback because most of it is toxic bull:etc_swear:.

That is quite not true. We have some stats on the hands, most of our community is not toxic. That is a great fact. 
We won't share the numbers but still, we don't need to make a secret about this or hide this fact. 

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Unfortunately, Sanctions against "abuse of the karma system" can only be done when they say it in public chat...

If they do it silently, there is really no remedy for that situation.

Edited by Navalpride33

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7 minutes ago, turbo07 said:

That is quite not true. We have some stats on the hands, most of our community is not toxic. That is a great fact. 
We won't share the numbers but still, we don't need to make a secret about this or hide this fact. 

I'm sure the numbers  would not look so great. Out of the whole post I did sad that this is the only thing that catches your eye. Regardless best of luck.

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